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Halo World Championship 2017 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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Str8 disbanding would throw an interesting wrench into things. 3sUP could still end up in the top 8 for UGC.

Only top 3 qualify for Worlds. So unless you're just talking more prize money..

 

Also that 3sUP squad split up the day after finals

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Only top 3 qualify for Worlds. So unless you're just talking more prize money..

 

Also that 3sUP squad split up the day after finals

 

I'm talking about automatic qualification for the Champ bracket, which the top 8 teams get for UGC

 

they might have split up but they're still playing in the ESM League and i imagine a bye into the bracket might change their minds

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I'm talking about automatic qualification for the Champ bracket, which the top 8 teams get for UGC

 

they might have split up but they're still playing in the ESM League and i imagine a bye into the bracket might change their minds

If a pro seed team dissolves, it'd just be 7 teams that are automatically in the Champ bracket. And the 1 seed would prob get a bye.

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I would take wall jumping maybe.

tumblr_mbmty0jHM51r6h22v.gif

Hear me out. What if it would replace clamber and you could fire while doing it.

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No offense, but most of the people disagreeing with you here have probably have never played an FPS that uses wall-jump properly. Its one of my fav FPS mechanics, not only for increasing 3d map design depth and creating creative new ways to traverse maps, but for the combinations of movements you can seamlessly add to chain with the wall-jump(ie UT dodge-wall-jump) for even greater movement depth. In the video above on DM-Lea, there is countless dodge walljumps, double wall-jumps, slide wall-jumps, to learn and master that also depend on movement velocity. One of the core pillars of any FPS is learning to taking advantage of map geometry and in a game like Halo where angles and learning map geometry is vital adding a wall-jump mechanic would naturally add to that depth and of course could be controlled on more tactical map designs unlike clamber. I dont think a shooters movement system should be entirely build around wall-running/wall-jumping(Titanfall to an extent), but its a very effective and intuitive Arena FPS mechanic when done properly.

 

That's the reason people are saying no.

 

edit: Also the kind of movement in the video is usually better suited for a mouse imho.

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I still can't believe E6? squad is still lasting this long. Why haven't Naded Danoxide Spartan Suspector ran again? They were holding their own vs NV. I am in full belief that players don't know what to do anymore at this point.

today was the first day we lost to anyone that isn't nv or optic. And we lost by 1 game and won the last 5??
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That's the reason people are saying no.

 

edit: Also the kind of movement in the video is usually better suited for a mouse imho.

 

Huh? Titanfall and some other console-based shooters(CoD for one) have adopted some form of wall-jump/running, im not saying it should be exactly like UT's but its obviously the origin of where all of these modern shooters are copying it from. I am fine if you are against it, but at least have some basis of an argument other than "clamber sucks so wall-jumping will suck"  when those are two totally different mechanics both execution-wise and stylistically speaking. Its pretty obvious Halo needs more movement depth/speed to keep up with the modern shooter market and wall-jump is x1000 times better than clamber and it fits Halo much better than other modern shooters.

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Huh? Titanfall and some other console-based shooters(CoD for one) have adopted some form of wall-jump/running, im not saying it should be exactly like UT's but its obviously the origin of where all of these modern shooters are copying it from. I am fine if you are against it, but at least have some basis of an argument other than "clamber sucks so wall-jumping will suck"  when those are two totally different mechanics both execution-wise and stylistically speaking. Its pretty obvious Halo needs more movement depth/speed to keep up with the modern shooter market and wall-jump is x1000 times better than clamber and it fits Halo much better more than other modern shooters.

 

ok so a few things:

 

1) My counter argument to wallrun is 343i. I don't trust them to implement it in a manner that works in Halo's environment, especially without compromising map design.

 

2) Looking at what other games are doing has always hurt Halo more than helped.

 

3) Wall running/jumping is a fine (even good) mechanic as of itself. We don't disagree on that, but you also need a better reason for it than CoD/Titanfall/Modern Shooters/Evolve/Adapt/etc.

 

4) If you add wallrun/jumps, remove clamber. Hitting jumps would be so much more beneficial, and removing clamber would actually reintroduce punishing players for poor mobility skills.

 

Again I'm not for or against wallrun/jump at this point. I'd rather we go back to Halo 1/2/3 and build from there, but that obviously isn't going to happen. Adding wallrun/jump honestly wouldn't be that bad if clamber was removed, and it somehow didn't negatively affect map design. Are you honestly telling me you expect 343i to implement it that successfully though? Not even being negative at this point, just look at the first integration of sprint/jetpack. Couldn't you see it being mindnumbingly easy to use and just breaking maps that would now be the size of valhalla with billboards everywhere to run off of? Or having it so mechanically broken you can just wallride in circles at the bottom of a tower on lockout? Just my thoughts.

 

edit: I also thought I'd mention I think these mobility mechanics work better in twitch shooters or games that use a mouse.

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ok so a few things:

 

1) My counter argument to wallrun is 343i. I don't trust them to implement it in a manner that works in Halo's environment, especially without compromising map design.

 

2) Looking at what other games are doing has always hurt Halo more than helped.

 

3) Wall running/jumping is a fine (even good) mechanic as of itself. We don't disagree on that, but you also need a better reason for it than CoD/Titanfall/Modern Shooters/Evolve/Adapt/etc.

 

4) If you add wallrun/jumps, remove clamber. Hitting jumps would be so much more beneficial, and removing clamber would actually reintroduce punishing players for poor mobility skills.

 

Again I'm not for or against wallrun/jump at this point. I'd rather we go back to Halo 1/2/3 and build from there, but that obviously isn't going to happen. Adding wallrun/jump honestly wouldn't be that bad if clamber was removed, and it somehow didn't negatively affect map design. Are you honestly telling me you expect 343i to implement it that successfully though? Not even being negative at this point, just look at the first integration of sprint/jetpack. Couldn't you see it being mindnumbingly easy to use and just breaking maps that would now be the size of valhalla with billboards everywhere to run off of? Or having it so mechanically broken you can just wallride in circles at the bottom of a tower on lockout? Just my thoughts.

 

edit: I also thought I'd mention I think these mobility mechanics work better in twitch shooters or games that use a mouse.

 

I agree that clamber would obviously have to be removed if wall-jump is added, wall-jump is a skill jump while clamber is an animation, they are not even close to the same mechanic and effect the game very differently. The great thing about wall-jump is that it also has a risk-reward element that clamber does not currently have which would make it so its not dominantly used in 1v1 battles but primarily for map movement as it is in UT and other games its done well in. When wall-jumping you are risking failing the execution of the jump and leaving yourself temporarily airborne moving in a predictable direction in which enemies could easily four you or snipe you. Because of this, wall-jumping is many times discouraged in battle and also requires awareness of the environment. Map design could either be tailored to or discouraged from wall-jumping as it is in UT. On some UT maps like Morpheus, there is seldom use of wall-jumps while on others like Deck 16 wall-jumping is a heavily used tactic. I assume this would be the same on Halo maps as well but obviously 343 would have to design maps to take advantage of it. What im trying to say is you can preserve the Halo tradition of having more tactical(Sanctuary) and Arena-styled(Midship) map designs with wall-jump.

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One of the gripe we have with most of Halo abilities is that they add useles animations and you can't shoot while using them. Wall jumping as demonstrated in that video could do the same thing as clamber but more fluidly. Honestly I think it could make the game a lot better (if done right) while not changing the playstyle. Maps would need to adjust to this ofc. I stop here because i understand ppl are sick of messing with the core of the game.

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Is Batchford back on Infused yet? General EU team update?

 

@@TheSimms @@Wonderboy

Unsure, last i heard he was on vibe then saw my chat saying otherwise yesterday. Theres some rules coming out shortly prior to worlds for roster lock procedures so im sure we will know closer to then as teams will start to solidify! Will keep you posted on EU side of teams and also the pro league roster lock procedures once official, aiming to get them to teams and then to the public this week.
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Its pretty obvious Halo needs more movement depth/speed to keep up with the modern shooter market and wall-jump is x1000 times better than clamber and it fits Halo much better than other modern shooters.

Thank you.

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I agree that clamber would obviously have to be removed if wall-jump is added, wall-jump is a skill jump while clamber is an animation, they are not even close to the same mechanic and effect the game very differently. The great thing about wall-jump is that it also has a risk-reward element that clamber does not currently have which would make it so its not dominantly used in 1v1 battles but primarily for map movement as it is in UT and other games its done well in. When wall-jumping you are risking failing the execution of the jump and leaving yourself temporarily airborne moving in a predictable direction in which enemies could easily four you or snipe you. Because of this, wall-jumping is many times discouraged in battle and also requires awareness of the environment. Map design could either be tailored to or discouraged from wall-jumping as it is in UT. On some UT maps like Morpheus, there is seldom use of wall-jumps while on others like Deck 16 wall-jumping is a heavily used tactic. I assume this would be the same on Halo maps as well but obviously 343 would have to design maps to take advantage of it. What im trying to say is you can preserve the Halo tradition of having more tactical(Sanctuary) and Arena-styled(Midship) map designs with wall-jump.

 

Exactly. But the reasons I listed are why I wouldn't risk it. If it is bad, 343i would be too slow to realize it and remove it. Even with wall abilities they would double-down on sprint/clamber. They would compromise map design. There is no chance they would get it right. We've talked more about core mechanics and their result in game more in the last two pages than I've ever seen a 343i member (outside of pro team) discuss. They throw ideas at the wall and see what sticks. If it doesn't quite stick they'll find tape.

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I'll say one more thing. Neg me to death if you want to. All of this slideboosting, stabilizing, wallhanging and combining all this to get to stupid places is excesive and abusement of game mechanics that was not meant to be in the game at first place (you also need specific settings to even be able to do that). Wall jump could do the same trick more fluidly and be part of the game out of the box. If done right, yeah.

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Hear me out. What if it would replace clamber and you could fire while doing it.

I'm not sure why you are getting down voted. Wall jumping would be immediately more skillful than the current clamber system. It would also (presumably) allow you to operate in all directions.

 

I feel like Unreal Tournament is a better example of how to add mobility options to an arena shooter than COD https://youtu.be/wHi7IssPW6o

 

Alternatively, the could just go back to designing maps around good Ole crouch jumps.

 

Exactly. But the reasons I listed are why I wouldn't risk it. If it is bad, 343i would be too slow to realize it and remove it. Even with wall abilities they would double-down on sprint/clamber. They would compromise map design. There is no chance they would get it right. We've talked more about core mechanics and their result in game more in the last two pages than I've ever seen a 343i member (outside of pro team) discuss. They throw ideas at the wall and see what sticks. If it doesn't quite stick they'll find tape.

Wall jumping would be the perfect mechanic to break away from their current implementation of spartan abilities. Hell even using UTs sprint mechanic would work better than H5s and would ensure that maps arent stretched (since sprinting would be too rare and to easily canceled)

 

Your logic that walljumping would surely compromise map design doesn't compute. It would improve map design because maps would no longer be designed around clamber. There's also no reason to assume that including a proven arena mechanic like wall jumping would encourage them to double down on broken mechanics. You're reaching.

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Is Batchford back on Infused yet? General EU team update?

 

@@TheSimms @@Wonderboy

I have seen Batchford scrimming with vibe a few days back then they were scrimming without him.  yesterday he was scrimming with riotz, doodle and warlord (although mose was in for a bit early on).  This was against the potential vibe squad which was septiq, snipedrone, lunny and ramirez.

 

Also heard supremacy is currently going with cxli, punisher, solar and 50 (i will be honest i have never heard of the last player but this was just something i heard on stream)

 

Not sure whats going on with infused the most recent iteration that i saw was kimbo, phlux, snakey and ..... (cant remember the 4th atm, will edit if it comes back to me) 

 

Still havent seen any sign of SLG yet, wondering where he will land.

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I'm not sure why you are getting down voted. Wall jumping would be immediately more skillful than the current clamber system. It would also (presumably) allow you to operate in all directions.

 

I feel like Unreal Tournament is a better example of how to add mobility options to an arena shooter than COD

 

Alternatively, the could just go back to designing maps around good Ole crouch jumps.

 

 

Wall jumping would be the perfect mechanic to break away from their current implementation of spartan abilities. Hell even using UTs sprint mechanic would work better than H5s and woukd ensure that maps arent stretched (since sprinting would be rare)

 

UT is very underrated I feel for its innovation in map design and movement mechanics. It also had a strong 5v5 clan community and was heavily team-based especially in Ut2k4 which is another misconception that its just a 1v1 Duel FPS but that is beside the point. 343 and Halo already stole Ut2k4's popular onslaught mode in H5(Warzone) and bombing run run(whatever game-type its called in H4 where you can throw the odd-ball into the goal) so why not copy its sprint and wall-jump mechanic as well!  ;)

I am of the strong belief that natural FPS movement (ie not too many abilities) is the best route to go, get rid of the animations and excess button mashing and just let the player move freely and intuitively within the confines of map geometry and movement physics.

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Xbox controllers are the biggest POS ever now. All the XB1 controllers break the exact same way.

 

In what way do they break, the bumpers? You can repair them for like $3-$4.

 

As a mechanical engineer, the XB1 bumpers are literally designed to fall apart. They have two designs. The new controllers designed in a specific section that is intended to flex to make them feel springy(that's why they feel "better" than the day one controller), but the part closer to the bumper gets so many cycles of strain that it fatigues and breaks because it gets brittle. Plastic is not meant to be flexed for millions of cycles, and that is how they designed their controller.

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I agree that clamber would obviously have to be removed if wall-jump is added, wall-jump is a skill jump while clamber is an animation, they are not even close to the same mechanic and effect the game very differently. The great thing about wall-jump is that it also has a risk-reward element that clamber does not currently have which would make it so its not dominantly used in 1v1 battles but primarily for map movement as it is in UT and other games its done well in. When wall-jumping you are risking failing the execution of the jump and leaving yourself temporarily airborne moving in a predictable direction in which enemies could easily four you or snipe you. Because of this, wall-jumping is many times discouraged in battle and also requires awareness of the environment. Map design could either be tailored to or discouraged from wall-jumping as it is in UT. On some UT maps like Morpheus, there is seldom use of wall-jumps while on others like Deck 16 wall-jumping is a heavily used tactic. I assume this would be the same on Halo maps as well but obviously 343 would have to design maps to take advantage of it. What im trying to say is you can preserve the Halo tradition of having more tactical(Sanctuary) and Arena-styled(Midship) map designs with wall-jump.

 

you're probably right in that this is where we will go, but honestly, its not what i want for halo. i love the mechanics of good wall jumping and i play titanfall more than anything else lately, but at the end of the day, i want a boots on the ground game that puts more emphasis on strafing and aiming than anything else. i think there is room in the market for games like that. i prefer walljumping to clamber, but at the end of the day, i dont think halo needs them. the old school mechanics of halo make this a unique game. plus i dont really think skill jumps will be as smooth without kbm input

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UT is very underrated I feel for its innovation in map design and movement mechanics. It also had a strong 5v5 clan community and was heavily team-based especially in Ut2k4 which is another misconception that its just a 1v1 Duel FPS but that is beside the point. 343 and Halo already stole Ut2k4's popular onslaught mode in H5(Warzone) and bombing run run(whatever game-type its called in H4 where you can throw the odd-ball into the goal) so why not copy its sprint and wall-jump mechanic as well! ;)

I am of the strong belief that natural FPS movement (ie not too many abilities) is the best route to go, get rid of the animations and excess button mashing and just let the player move freely and intuitively within the confines of map geometry and movement physics.

I couldn't agree more. There's nothing wrong with copying other games, but you have to copy the right games.

 

Obviously halo has a bit of the dna from classic arena shooters like UT, so thats where they should look when they want to find ways to enhance mobility.

 

I know we all hate sprint in Halo, for example, but I'd it were implimented like UTs then it wouldn't have had a damaging effect on map design.

 

If we had wall jumping instead of clamber, we'd have a mechanic that adds depth to movement, and increases the skill gap rather than a shallow mechanic that wastes precious frames removing the player from combat

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