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Halo World Championship 2017 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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Discussing removing radar in a thread for HWC 2017 when radar is already confirmed to be in for HWC 2017. Seems relevant.

I know but I get a bit tilted whenever someone complains about being "On Topic" it makes me feel like my Team Beyond Constitutional rights are being infringed upon.

 

:kappa:

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I know but I get a bit tilted whenever someone complains about being "On Topic" it makes me feel like my Team Beyond Constitutional rights are being infringed upon.

 

:kappa:

Reform against the 3lector4l Coll3ge for voting to keep radar in!

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Coming here to comment on the "spartan ability only radar" 

 

Why can't they just buff the sound of clamber, thrust, and footsteps when people are sprinting and just take out the radar completely? or would that be too much awareness for 343 to handle considering they put grenade hitmarkers, weapon timers on screen, spartan call outs, player flag markers, and radar in competitive.

 

Why does Halo have to be the fps where sound means very little? We have ears and headsets for a reason. 

Because then it becomes a battle of who has the best headphones. Playing on speakers? lol get rekt scrub.

 

Soundwhoring is one of the worst parts of CoD snd and kills a huge level of risk reward. Players are forced to use crutch perks and make 'quiet plays' and essentially just slowplay everything, just like what radar does to Halo.

 

If you want to add some kind of gifted awareness to players, give us a larger FoV. It takes away the horrible tunnel vision we currently have which severely impacts the randomness of encounters. Players who don't have a concrete knowledge of spawns and choke-points have to completely rely on callouts (if they have any), radar (if they have it preferably not), and the miniscule FoV, which makes shit random af. With a higher FoV you have a larger fixed peripheral vision which gives you more information and lets you interact with other players a lot more purposefully. It's one of the reasons why CSGO - and for example classic arena shooters - have such high skill ceilings, and also has the added benefit of making movement feel faster.

 

So no, fuck sound cues for the most part.

 

Disclaimer: Sounds cues are great for balancing things like game pace and counter-play, where sound is used to reinforce the player's awareness of things that they would struggle to notice without sound (dangerous projectiles), or things you want to really aid their awareness of to promote engagements (like no-shields or shields recharging).

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None of the movement options added have increased the depth of gameplay. I can see some arguments for thrust and auto-stabilize.

 

Thrust is broken. If you thrust away from a melee, your opponent just lunges at you from triple the distance of a normal lunge. If you try to thrust away when you're one shot you die 99% of the time. It's also a less skillful mechanic than having a good strafe.

 

Ground pound is just gimmicky and should never have been put in the game.

 

Auto-stabilize is actually good for doing special jumps and can be used skillfully in gun fights.

 

Spartan charge is absolute garbage and shouldn't be in competitive play.

 

Sprint literally makes no sense. Maps are stretched to compensate for it and it allows you to run away from 1v1 situations instead of outsmarting your opponent.

 

Clamber is OK but I much prefer skill jumps as opposed to it.

I like you, want to be friends?

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halo hasn't been halo since reach. to me the thing that made halo so appealing seeming simplicity of it. 8 players and a handful of weapons and mechanics that rewarded gunskill over who shot first. and while we've moved away from letpacks and armor lock, we still have a cluttered game with too many weapons on map that reward first shot over best shot. i think the only notable improvement has been the addition of the dmr

 

I can't complain too much since my k/d has improved so much after reach, but i feel thats more to the game coming down to my level than me getting better

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Why are so many people even in the CoD community begging for boots on the ground gameplay then? And they didnt successfully bring halo to a new generation, halo 5 plays so little like classic halo games, I don't even consider it a halo, it's a decent game but it's not halo. I don't think there are really that many people clamoring for halo to have all sorts of movement options, its that 343 wanted to try to suck some of the playerbase away from CoD and so a lot of people have just gotten used to it being there.

There is only so much Fps players and if game sells 20mil pieces every year, everybody wants to get piece of that cake. Its called business. Sad but true. I am not saying H5 plays like Ce, but it certainly still is skill based arena shooter. It still has those important core elements. It's more Halo then H4 ever was so they did something right and we should expect things get even better with H6. I am certainly hopeful when i see how things go right now. Not saying we shouldn't push for changes though, I believe Beyond is the main force pushing them in the right direction (or at least to do the right compromises, like sprint that doesnt break the game let's say).

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And to all who think that all the Halo community wants now is more warzone, fiesta, and spartan abilities...

 

"You're not supposed to give people what they want,

you're supposed to give them what they don't know they want yet"

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None of the movement options added have increased the depth of gameplay. I can see some arguments for thrust and auto-stabilize.

Forgot about stabilize. I dont really have a problem with that either.  It does add a little something that you can choose to use or ignore depending on your playstyle without fundamentally changing anything or taking away anything else.

 

I agree with you that a legit, quick strafe with quick acceleration would give you more tools to track players and make them miss than any of the other mechanics in the game.

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lmao, if you honestly think that then you're part of the problem.

 

Yes, we're trying to make Halo 5 as good as it can be with all that shit, and I firmly believe we can make it play amazingly well if 343 wasn't so damn stubborn with settings. It's shoved firmly up our asses and is a core part of the game.

 

But Halo doesn't need to 'evolve'. It doesn't need to borrow a fuck-ton of generic FPS mechanics, or abolish the variety of the weapons sandbox, or throw out the gametypes that made multiplayer fun in the first place, or destroy any kind of genuine progression, or "make me feel like a spartan". Or any of the other bullshit I haven't mentioned.

 

There has never been a perfect Halo game created. There's a huge list of pro's and cons of every game in the franchise yet instead of focusing on perfecting the core and staying true to the formula, 343 want to add all their own trash ideas that pull away from it. I'm not sure if it's focus groups, money, bureaucracy, laziness, or just plain ego that is causing them to consistently mess up on almost every aspect of game design, but it hasn't stopped. Yes, it gets progressively better and worse but there's something inherently wrong with that studio.

 

So fuck Halo 'evolving', and fuck the devs who keep running away from what made Halo fun in the first place.

The problem here is so many on this forum keep using "we" or "we're" as if this forum has unified around a single opinion because they must be right.  I'm obviously new here and had one of those unpopular opinions and it got me some sweet neg points and a warning from a mod saying "people are allowed to have different opinions" when that is exactly what I being neg'd for.  I love the changes 343 added to H5, clamber, sprint, thrust...its all great.  I think the lowered radar range was an excellent change but I'm also open to improving it more.  Simply turning it off doesn't fix anything so maybe we will get a test playlist after HWC 2017 with no radar and people will actually get to see how it works.  I'm optimistic about Halo and 343 and pretty much everything announced for 2017.  Sad to see so much of this forum against that.

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Auto-stabilize is actually good for doing special jumps and can be used skillfully in gun fights.

 

Spartan charge is absolute garbage and shouldn't be in competitive play.

 

Sprint literally makes no sense. Maps are stretched to compensate for it and it allows you to run away from 1v1 situations instead of outsmarting your opponent.

 

 

I like auto stabilize, but every time i see an auto stabilized snipe, all i can think about is ghandi jump sniping of the top of base in beaver creek and how impressive it was that he could hit those small windows so quickly.

 

i hate spartan charge. what a gift to someone blindly sprinting who is caught off guard by me 2 shots in with my pistol. cheap kills cheapen the game

 

the last point is the biggest issue - the dev. everything was designed around this so since we have sprint we should have thrust, then spartan charges, then autos for close battle, then radar to compensate for those choices. with this mindset, im not sure i would trust an h3a from them and am not expecting a lot from h6. we've been heading in the right direction lately, so there is some hope, but after the last 3 games from them,

liquor-and-therapy.gif

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Let's be honest, H5 would make a great pizza because its got so much Cheese. Usually the cheese is removed for competitive but the spectators couldn't reconcile the fundamental differences between competitive settings and casual settings.

Halo 5 Cheese:
Radar Abuse

Spartan Charge

Storm Rifle/SMG/AR/SAW

Clamber (Fall off map cuz I suck at jumping, nope I'll just clamber up to safety)

 

Royal 2 is factually the best at slaying without dying in Halo not only because he has a godlike shot and is super smart, but also because he exploits the cheese better than anyone, and has done it from the beginning. People want to knock his crouching shotgun plays but the dude does it better than anyone. He created skill gap from the cheese and that takes real skill.

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Royal 2 is factually the best at slaying without dying in Halo not only because he has a godlike shot and is super smart, but also because he exploits the cheese better than anyone, and has done it from the beginning. People want to knock his crouching shotgun plays but the dude does it better than anyone. He created skill gap from the cheese and that takes real skill.

Wait, are you actually defending the skill gap of crouching with shotguns?

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Wait, are you actually defending the skill gap of crouching with shotguns?

 

No, not per se

 

As I stated Royal 2 is pretty much the only player that is significantly better at cheesy plays. All things being equal, I want Royal 2 hiding in the opponents engine with a Storm Rifle on Fathom CTF over any other player in the HCS.

 

He has created a skill gap where there previously was none. Its kind of amazing really. He is kind of a genius. So what I'm really saying is the Royal 2 is a genius and autos suck!

 

EDIT: Also, I don't think nerfing/removing the cheesy mechanics would make Royal 2 worse, he is that good.

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Thankfully Shotgun is gone from Eden TS so we won't see that again ^^^^

 

Shotgun is rarely used for camping on Plaza SH, and Scattershot on Rig won't be too bad. 

 

Disappointed in No Radar as much as the next guy, but a lot of these map changes make up for it. Now, can we please get back to Rostermania? 

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I managed to get a response from Tashi early this morning on reddit when I asked him why it took so long for them to start addressing radar when the competitive community has been asking for it for over a year. The response is underwhelming in my opinion.

 

 

Radar has been an ongoing discussion internally but the majority of pros didn't collectively feel the need for a change/update until recently. And even now they're split on what type of radar exactly, which is why we want to get it out there for people to play when it's ready.

 

I also don't view the "competitive community" as one large bucket that is aligned on all topics, including radar. I do my best to navigate the various corners of the internet, and talk directly with our pros to get a good sense of community sentiment.

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Also, nobody is saying Halo is better with all the ground pounds and charges. Some things won't go away unless trends change. There is a reason why is nobody playing games like Toxikk and Reflex and why new Quake is gonna have hero abilities. Don't act like 343 is the devil behind all this.

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So how did Ninja, Commonly and Heinz seem to do together?

 

I saw a couple of games but it being 3am I wasn't paying that much attention...

 

Also, nobody is saying Halo is better with all the ground pounds and charges. Some things won't go away unless trends change. There is a reason why is nobody playing games like Toxikk and Reflex and why new Quake is gonna have hero abilities. Don't act like 343 is the devil behind all this.

Ground pound is awesome and I've yet to see a good argument against it.

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I'm obviously new here and had one of those unpopular opinions and it got me some sweet neg points and a warning from a mod saying "people are allowed to have different opinions" when that is exactly what I being neg'd for.

I specifically told you what you got negged for a week ago. Agreed 100%. There is a real toxic, hivemind-esq, mentality in these forums. You said "there is a real toxic, hivemind-esq, mentality in these forums. So sick of crying babies who can't be rational."

 

That's not cool bro

 

Simply turning it off doesn't fix anything so maybe we will get a test playlist after HWC 2017 with no radar and people will actually get to see how it works.

It does fix things. A lot of things actually. Have you watched no-radar Halo 5 or even just read one of the hundreds of posts on why radar is detrimental to comp play?

 

I'm optimistic about Halo and 343 and pretty much everything announced for 2017.  Sad to see so much of this forum against that.

lol I don't know when you got into Halo but you really seem to not get what this forum is about.

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Also, nobody is saying Halo is better with all the ground pounds and charges. Some things won't go away unless trends change. There is a reason why is nobody playing games like Toxikk and Reflex and why new Quake is gonna have hero abilities. Don't act like 343 is the devil behind all this.

 

Agreed, 343 is reacting to market trends. Data and research absolutely make decisions especially for large companies. They are data driven, and they attribute much of their success to using data to make well informed decisions. As much as we may disagree, 343 is not evil, they want Halo to be successful just like us. Its a difference of philosophy more so than intention.

 

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Browser not letting me quote for some reason. But to reply to poster above, I don't really see a skill gap in the "cheesy" plays so much as I see certain players fully accepting and exploiting them, whereas I see certain other players almost always using the pistol, even in close range fights (ninja comes to mind), rarely crouching, etc. I feel like some pros still have a tendency to not accept that crouching/autos are a huge part of the game now and as a result maybe put themselves at a disadvantage.

 

Even as a casual I've noticed myself not utilizing crouching and autos near as much as I should. It's like I am subconsciously trying to protest their presence in the game by not using them, even though I know that is dumb.

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i think i'm gonna be sick

Actually I think being able to shoot while clambering would make the game more competitive. The problem with most of the abilities is that it separates movement skill from gun skill, now with things like sprint you can either move fast or shoot, while in the past you had to be able to move and jump while shooting. So a change where you can use more abilities while having your gun up would improve the skill gap of the game.

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