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CyReN

Halo World Championship 2017 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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Isn't he part of the pro team at 343 now though? Or did he move in with Neighbor before he stopped competing?

 

Yes he is with 343 now, at the time leading up to the move he was competing in the qualifiers. After he actually moved there, he wanted to keep competing and the general line of thinking was something to the affect of "343 said it was cool or it will get straightened out."  But between roster changes and uncertainty of his eligibility I'm not sure he actually competed on any team following the move. 

 

In the end, he made the right choice. 

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Look I don't want to argue, if you guys see it different that's ok. 

 

Just annoyed at the state of this scene. Not this forum/.community. 

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Hopefully there isn't a time between Proving Grounds going away and new radar being added into Team Arena. I can't go back!

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TB has outdone itself with this discussion, 30 pages of the most idiotic uproar ever , not even the "pros" who are the people that could be affected are saying anything.

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Man, this really needs to happen.  :simms:

I'll look into It after Im off work

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So i have been doing a bunch of research into conflict of interest law and the more i read the less i think there is a problem here.  I am not a lawyer (very obviously) but im also not a moron.  Take everything with a grain of salt but here is my take:

 

Edit:  I had literally no idea how long this was until i posted it.  Putting it in spoiler tags for anybody that is really done with this discussion and wants to skip

 

 

 

1) Other than for government officials, municipality relationships, and "high level professionals" (like lawyers and doctors) the mere existence of a conflict of interest is not generally illegal.  Even in the aforementioned cases, its still only sometimes illegal.  its a very bad look and comes with risk should there even be the appearance of favoritism, so it's generally avoided anyway.  Most cases of this nature are handled in civil court which has a lower burden of proof for establishing guilt thus companies avoid them at all costs, but technically, most of the time, the mere existence of a conflict is not illegal.

 

2) Just because there is some relation between the members, doesn't mean there is an inherent conflict of interest.  For example, if a married couple works at the same company and one of them is a higher level than the other, there is no conflict of interest unless they work in the same department.  To draw a parallel to this situation, Kyle is a caster but he has no role or ability in creating the rules of the league by which Ace qualified. He is not a ref and has no direct influence on the outcome of the games.  There is no conflict of interest because he is incapable of effecting the outcome of the game.  All they need to do to avoid any potential conflicts is not let Elamite cast games when Ace is playing.  For T2, he shouldn't be casting Str8 games. Both easy things to do.

 

3) Its not just the fact that these people work at ESL, it is also dependent on their ROLE at ESL.  For Everett, what does a Project Analyst do?  Does he have any power or say over qualification for pro league, worlds etc or rules governing those who do? does he even still work there?  T2 is just talent.  we know he has no say or sway over those things so he really doesn't have an issue here.

 

4) The game itself is a kind of control over these things.  ESL can't control the outcome of a game unless there is a tie or lagout and they change the rules that very moment to give the team that was losing the win.  The game decides who got the last cap, kill or point to win and they have no ability to control that.  Computers dont lie.

 

Now all this is what i have gleaned from reading specifically about conflict of interest law.  I tried to find stuff about conflict of interest related specifically to "Contests of skill" which could admittedly change things significantly, but that was particularly hard to find and I have actual work i need to get done today lol.

 

The "Double standard" argument doesn't really hold up here.  The rules ESL wrote for themselves kind of don't matter...  There has been no other situation like this as a point of comparison so there is no evidence that if a similar situation arose with another player/team they would be treated any differently.  The rulebook also states that it can be changed at any time and that they may make independent judgments based on what they feel is best for the league.  Besides, they have a history of not following their own rules (cratos seed).

 

TL;DR - I don't see any true, "i can sue you in court" legal issues here.  This is something that they should address publicly for sure and they need to tread carefully following their own rulebook and MAKE A PUBLIC FUCKING STATEMENT but until they show actual, demonstrable favoritism comparable to another team with a similar situation there is no court battle to be had here.

 

 

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Well, would you mind explaining why else you do literally anything you're doing? Why else do you constantly go at the people who work for 343/ESL as if they ruined your life once upon a time ago? It's definitely not passion and you really don't have any ulterior motive to dislike these people unless you were denied a job with them. They aren't the best we all know that and they know when they fuck up, but for some reason you walk around acting as if you're entitled to a response from them. When in reality you aren't at all, you're just another forum poster with a gold bar who may help out cast some beyond tourneys (you might be an admin too I'm not sure). They don't need to come here to clarify anything with a person who spends hours on the internet wanting their entire operation to go up in flames. Also, I'm sure you wouldn't mind a job from either of these companies if it was offered to you seeing as how you're a full time student. Not taking a shot, just the truth essentially. So like I said, why else do you despise any and everything the HCS has done more than any other human on this planet? This is all over a man casting and his brother playing. You don't have the excuse of saying "favoritism" and rigged brackets because that's out of the window. When you put it into perspective as Elamite casting and Ace playing, this is probably the dumbest uproar this community has caused. It seems you're just trying to exploit a company due to personal reasons. Where were all of you back in November when we joined Str8 during pro league and when we made it to season 2 finals (California) or OpTic in relegation (California) or lastly to qualify for Pro League season 1 in May (California)? All events Elamite casted/Ace played. Why do you choose now as the time to get upset over virtually...nothing.

 

honestly....theres just not much to talk about.

 

good luck this weekend though. i can see str8 hitting top 4 and pushing for top 3. how do you think your new coach will help?

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So i have been doing a bunch of research into conflict of interest law and the more i read the less i think there is a problem here. I am not a lawyer (very obviously) but im also not a moron. Take everything with a grain of salt but here is my take:

 

Edit: I had literally no idea how long this was until i posted it. Putting it in spoiler tags for anybody that is really done with this discussion and wants to skip

 

 

 

1) Other than for government officials, municipality relationships, and "high level professionals" (like lawyers and doctors) the mere existence of a conflict of interest is not generally illegal. Even in the aforementioned cases, its still only sometimes illegal. its a very bad look and comes with risk should there even be the appearance of favoritism, so it's generally avoided anyway. Most cases of this nature are handled in civil court which has a lower burden of proof for establishing guilt thus companies avoid them at all costs, but technically, most of the time, the mere existence of a conflict is not illegal.

 

2) Just because there is some relation between the members, doesn't mean there is an inherent conflict of interest. For example, if a married couple works at the same company and one of them is a higher level than the other, there is no conflict of interest unless they work in the same department. To draw a parallel to this situation, Kyle is a caster but he has no role or ability in creating the rules of the league by which Ace qualified. He is not a ref and has no direct influence on the outcome of the games. There is no conflict of interest because he is incapable of effecting the outcome of the game. All they need to do to avoid any potential conflicts is not let Elamite cast games when Ace is playing. For T2, he shouldn't be casting Str8 games. Both easy things to do.

 

3) Its not just the fact that these people work at ESL, it is also dependent on their ROLE at ESL. For Everett, what does a Project Analyst do? Does he have any power or say over qualification for pro league, worlds etc or rules governing those who do? does he even still work there? T2 is just talent. we know he has no say or sway over those things so he really doesn't have an issue here.

 

4) The game itself is a kind of control over these things. ESL can't control the outcome of a game unless there is a tie or lagout and they change the rules that very moment to give the team that was losing the win. The game decides who got the last cap, kill or point to win and they have no ability to control that. Computers dont lie.

 

Now all this is what i have gleaned from reading specifically about conflict of interest law. I tried to find stuff about conflict of interest related specifically to "Contests of skill" which could admittedly change things significantly, but that was particularly hard to find and I have actual work i need to get done today lol.

 

The "Double standard" argument doesn't really hold up here. The rules ESL wrote for themselves kind of don't matter... There has been no other situation like this as a point of comparison so there is no evidence that if a similar situation arose with another player/team they would be treated any differently. The rulebook also states that it can be changed at any time and that they may make independent judgments based on what they feel is best for the league. Besides, they have a history of not following their own rules (cratos seed).

 

TL;DR - I don't see any true, "i can sue you in court" legal issues here. This is something that they should address publicly for sure and they need to tread carefully following their own rulebook and MAKE A PUBLIC FUCKING STATEMENT but until they show actual, demonstrable favoritism comparable to another team with a similar situation there is no court battle to be had here.

 

 

 

Everything you've said is true. Conflicts of interest are rarely illegal. Most companies outlaw them or require disclosure simply so they can avoid discrimination suits.

 

Compartmentalizing roles is the most common way companies avoid previous relationships from becoming conflicts of interest.

 

We don't know if elamites role is compartmentalized, but we also have no reason to believe he's anything more than a caster.that said, I cant argue against the assumption that a conflict exists since there's no proof either way. But there is also no evidence of cheating... Which is far more important to me as a viewer

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Everything you've said is true. Conflicts of interest are rarely illegal. Most companies outlaw them or require disclosure simply so they can avoid discrimination suits.

 

Compartmentalizing roles is the most common way companies avoid previous relationships from becoming conflicts of interest.

 

We don't know if elamites role is compartmentalized, but we also have no reason to believe he's anything more than a caster.that said, I cant argue against the assumption that a conflict exists since there's no proof either way. But there is also no evidence of cheating... Which is far more important to me as a viewer

yeah. Exactly why a simple statement about roles, responsibilities and why they made an exception to the written rule (which they have the right to do, according to their own written rule lol) is all ESL needs to do to put this nonsense to bed.

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The best promotion HWC has received: 

-Pamaj Tweet-

 

If he's this stoked now, imagine how stoked he'll be to find out he can get a $20 Jiffy Lube oil change while he's watching!

 

 

He was bad at Halo 5 so I think they did him a favor.

FTFY

 

He may not have liked H5, but he wouldn't have stopped playing if he wasn't bad at it. There are plenty of pros who don't like H5 very much, but they still play because they're still good.

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Where have LG been recently?

 

They haven't scrimmed since Friday...

Ninja had an H1Z1 tourney over the weekend

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So who do you guys have winning HWC 2017? I think OpTic has it to be honest, but I could see nV and TL giving them a run for their money. How about Tapping Buttons man, he's going now? Awesome!

 

giphy.gif

Tapping can go now? They got his Visa issues resolved?

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Oh okay, how did he do?

We don't know it was the 5v5 one with all the teams he went with LG but the results wont be aired for another month kinda sucks having to wait.

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Isn't he part of the pro team at 343 now though? Or did he move in with Neighbor before he stopped competing?

He recently tweeted that Halo Wars 2 was the first game he helped ship. Don't think he's on the pro team.   

For everyone going to world's (the two of you), please get a long stick and attach a picture of Richard's face to it and start rotating it  :simms:

Can I just rotate the real Simms for you instead?
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Clutch was our coach last event and I enjoy him a lot. He's extremely vocal and knows which play calls to make in certain situations. Plus his voice is distinct which is important for a good coach. Hoax was becoming an extremely good coach as well and he did better each event we had him so don't get me wrong on that. Clutch has more experience (coaching CLG throughout regionals/worlds 2016) and Hoax was essentially just starting, but at the same time improving. Both have their strengths/weaknesses. Unfortunately Clutch can't coach online which def hinders online practice, but that's no excuse and players shouldn't rely on a coach to get them certain power-ups/weapons. 

 

thanks for the reply man. its always cool to hear a little more about how the team works <3 

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