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Halo World Championship 2017 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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That won't happen. Hcs pays their bills. And their orgs expect them to compete.

 

a pro player strike would work though. no doubt, it would force Quinn to either change or be removed from his position at 343.

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a pro player strike would work though. no doubt, it would force Quinn to either change or be removed from his position at 343.

I just don't see what it would accomplish. I think a more likely result is 343 would just scrap HCS (its a money sink anyway) . Better hope and pray for LAN support in H6 if that happens. Either that or they'd just promote some AM players to replace the striking pros.

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yes.

See the above post. The Halo esports programme runs at a heavy loss for the purpose of advertising and overall community well-being. If it ceases to advertise in a positive light it ceases to find meaning. Therein lies the dilemma, it is hard to effectively criticise and cause change something you are wholly dependant on.

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Goes both ways. A business pays employees I.E. their incentive to work and their well being. The business also cannot operate day in and day out without the people they are employing / paying. It is a mutual relationship. Once one side (generally the business, in this case the HCS) begins to just do whatever they want, while blowing off feedback from the very people who power their operation, that's when things go south.

 

HCS has just kind of always established the relationship from day one with this "do whatever we want attitude" and changes are extremely slow moving, if they even happen at all. You see this attitude when it comes to tournament organizers, formats, game settings, event locations, etc. etc.

 

A pro player strike would send one message: we power this league, and we won't just blindly accept whatever it is you want to implement.

 

Doubtful it would ever happen, either pros have just accepted that 343 doesn't listen or they quit trying - probably a nice mix of both I would imagine.

Players aren't employees in any sense, they are participants.

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Players aren't employees in any sense, they are participants.

 

Most top players stream/compete full time, and their livelihoods are impacted based on their "job performance"  (in game) and impacted out of game with decisions from the league structure. Extremely comparable to an employee/employer relationship.

 

Call it what you like.. whatever term is used to label whatever pros are, is irrelevant. It is a mutual relationship at the end of the day, one side cant run out of control or it will not work, is the point.

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Goes both ways. A business pays employees I.E. their incentive to work and their well being. The business also cannot operate day in and day out without the people they are employing / paying. It is a mutual relationship. Once one side (generally the business, in this case the HCS) begins to just do whatever they want, while blowing off feedback from the very people who power their operation, that's when things go south.

 

HCS has just kind of always established the relationship from day one with this "do whatever we want attitude" and changes are extremely slow moving, if they even happen at all. You see this attitude when it comes to tournament organizers, formats, game settings, event locations, etc. etc.

 

A pro player strike would send one message: we power this league, and we won't just blindly accept whatever it is you want to implement.

 

Doubtful it would ever happen, either pros have just accepted that 343 doesn't listen or they quit trying - probably a nice mix of both I would imagine.

Pros aren't employees of 343 though. More like independent contractors- who 'power' a leg of the business that doesn't generate any profit.

 

Pro's boycotting would more likely show the brass that HCS is an unneccisarily costly and volitile investment.

 

Pros have little leverage here. 343 doesn't NEED the pro scene, it's a luxury.They've probably made enough $ from Warzone to more than offset the sales decline from H4. The Pro scene NEEDS 343 though, otherwise there's no Money and No LAN Servers.

 

When you talk about "employees" you are talking about people who's work is actually vital to the operation. When has professional Halo actually been "vital" to the operation of the developer? Even at its highest height, pro halo was only ever an afterthought to Bungie.

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Pros aren't employees of 343 though. More like independent contractors- who 'power' a leg of the business that doesn't generate any profit.

 

Pro's boycotting would more likely show the brass that HCS is an unneccisarily costly and volitile investment.

 

Not disputing these points at all, I agree with the contractor sentiment, as well as the result of a "boycott" could be negative.

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I just hate the fact this is one of if not the only scene in which competitors don't have a say in settings

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I just hate the fact this is one of if not the only scene in which competitors don't have a say in settings

They do have a say, they just don't have the final say.

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I've noticed since his first post a lot of the questions/concerns are kinda dumb questions lol

 

Half of them are asking about breakout and ranked snipers and shit.  He addressed this multiple times in multiple threads that he is not in charge of those decisions.  It makes the threads a cluttered mess.

 

Maybe Alg will take him over Trippey ?

 

My guess is that this is kind of the scenario he is hoping for. get picked back up by one of the pro teams that haven't qualified yet.  Its a bad move imo

 

a pro player strike would work though. no doubt, it would force Quinn to either change or be removed from his position at 343.

 

No and no.  It wouldn't force anything.  They could drop the program altogether, or move to AMs instead.  Plus, without a bargaining unit you would NEVER be able to get 100% participation.  The key to strikes is that the people striking are actually worth something to the people paying them.  Ie, they need them to make a profit.  HCS is a net loser for sure, there would be no incentive and it would make the pros look like entitled a-holes and basically shut down any chance of casual players getting interested in competitive.

 

They do have a say, they just don't have the final say.

 

which applies to the pros in all other esports as well.  The difference between Halo and other esports is that we are still trying to get the basics right.  Other esports argue about the details.

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Halo is having an identity crisis.

 

Most other titles are more flexible when it comes to competitive because the developers understand how to cater to their specific audience(s).

 

When you look at something like CSGo competitive is the primary draw of the main audience, so naturally competitive players have a large say in how things are tunes.

 

When you look at something like COD, where the audience is primarily casual, they offer seperate settings for the different segments of the community. This allows the dev to react to the competitive community without upsetting their main audience.

 

The halo community is made up of several disparate communities that each want different things out of their MM experience, so expecting Universal Settings is something that I don't believe will ever work. The competitive community wants something different from what the Ranked Slayer/Obj community wants, which is different from what the Social community wants. So in trying to cram everyone into a unified experience, 343 ends up having to make what all communities view as harmful compromise. This setup forces them to take input from parties who want totally opposite things, so all groups feel like they are being ignored.

 

This is my main concern with the new radar they will be testing later this week.  Are they going to insist on putting it everywhere, like when they make the HCS map variants the main variants across playlists, or will they keep it Team Arena only, or Ranked only?

 

I believe in universal settings in the sense that all "Competitive" play should use the same settings so we are comparing apples to apples, but not across-playlists.

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The pros have very little bargaining power or "worth" to force change through strike action.

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Halo is having an identity crisis.

 

Most other titles are more flexible when it comes to competitive because the developers understand how to cater to their specific audience(s).

 

When you look at something like CSGo competitive is the primary draw of the main audience, so naturally competitive players have a large say in how things are tunes.

 

When you look at something like COD, where the audience is primarily casual, they offer seperate settings for the different segments of the community. This allows the dev to react to the competitive community without upsetting their main audience.

 

The halo community is made up of several disparate communities that each want different things out of their MM experience, so expecting Universal Settings is something that I don't believe will ever work. The competitive community wants something different from what the Ranked Slayer/Obj community wants, which is different from what the Social community wants. So in trying to cram everyone into a unified experience, 343 ends up having to make what all communities view as harmful compromise. This setup forces them to take input from parties who want totally opposite things, so all groups feel like they are being ignored.

 

Watch the Optic podcast on both competitive cod and Halo. Both Pro scenes are equally as frustrated. 

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The pros have as much of a say as a toddler does with his bedtime. 

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I just hate the fact this is one of if not the only scene in which competitors don't have a say in settings

Oddly enough heathstone has hit this wall and several big names have switched games. With halo, there is really no other game like it so it makes it hard to switch to a similar type game

 

If you've got them by the balls, their hearts and mind will follow - teddy roosevelt and 343 probably

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343 would rather see their game crash and burn but at least have it crash and burn their own way, than have someone tell them how to do it and see it succeed. I don't think it could be any more obvious. 

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You people don't expect me to believe you think Riot listens exclusively to the Pros what should be changed? 

 

 

Also maps changed all the time now? The radar debacle was still not a clear vote that would make sense midseason.   Starting weapons are fine, let us first see how autos behave with the new radar?

 

I agree the proving ground playlist comes way to late, but this is the best idea I can think of. 

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343 would rather see their game crash and burn but at least have it crash and burn their own way, than have someone tell them how to do it and see it succeed. I don't think it could be any more obvious.

There is some truth to that especially when it comes to competitive and not allowing mlg to come in or emulating mlg formats, but they also remind me of a description i read of atari during the et fiasco

 

A game dev was interviewed and basically said they were so walled off that they thought the game was good and by the time they figured it out, they were already shut down and sales had tanked.

 

343 has really shut out all criticism and surrounded themselves with r/halo where everything is good except for black undersuits

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