Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
logan

Reddit Thread From 343i Asking For Top MM Complaint.

Recommended Posts

Interesting to interpret it as "top MM complaint" when the context outside of here was really "request." I was personally surprised to see "solo queue" related topics as the predominant answer on Reddit. On Waypoint it looked a little different.

 

For perspective it's absolutely not my role or responsibility to be able to enact changes to matchmaking. Instead it's part of my job to make sure that the needs of the community - both at large and honestly even niches within - are being heard and socialized internally towards some kind of outcome. Ideally that outcome is what the audience wants though maybe it's not. In that case it's my job to try and flesh that out and foster a dialog so there's an understanding behind decisions and that fans don't feel simply ignored. We'll never please everyone all the time and as I've said elsewhere, the massive amounts of subtle variations and customizations Halo allows is a huge strength for the game just as it's a big challenge because it's harder and harder to define what the 'majority' of people really enjoy.

 

I half expected 'classic settings' playlist to be #1 on the list of requests because I know it's something at least a very vocal group wants. Should we have it? As a relatively new person here my gut is that yeah, we should. I don't yet know why we don't but I truly hope we will add it and as long as core fans keep demanding it I will keep championing that discussion internally. It's easy for me to say that, weeks into this role, but I understand many have been asking for this for a year now to no avail.

 

I see a lot of great, valid feedback here which is sweet. Of course I also see a ton of the same vitriol and negativity that this community has, for better or worse, become known for. I only want Halo to be as awesome and successful as possible which I think is what most here want as well or why bother expending the time and energy to continue fighting these battles. It's important for us (343) to not lose sight of the overall player base that Team Beyond represents even when it's a continued assault of negativity (though I think the personal attacks are out of line).

 

Anyways, apologies for the semi on-topic / semi-off topic wall of text. I've been lurking around Team Beyond, and I feel like I have a really good grasp of what players here stand for and want, but I don't always seen avenues to personally engage.

Thanks ske7ch.

 

You seem to be doing a lot of things Bravo never did. Did he have a different job description because as as I'm concerned he never cared about what we thought or bothered to post here?

 

Staying on topic though, there's a lot or great suggestions. The problem with a classic playlist (which would be the only thing to return me to the game), is that there are so many core problems with matchmaking and playlists that adding afresh playlist HAS to be lower priority. Servers and Solo Q, Settings and Spectator mode need to be sorted out ASAP, we've already lost so many players because of those things.

 

About the negativity: it's a popular public forum. Halo has been in the shitter for years. Too many different people with different attitudes, you have to expect seeing things you don't like, and ignore them. Only pay attention to thoughtful posts, ignore flame. That goes for every internet community. Understand the context, never take it personally.

 

When you find a well written post that you think can help out Halo's situation, or that thoughtfully expresses feelings, engage with it. Reply to it or upvote it. Give your own perspective, chat and discuss about it and become a part of the community, which is absolutely full of amazing posters and content creators who really fucking care about Halo and know what's going right and wrong. Literally nobody from 343 has cared about our thoughts for years and here at TB we're so desperate to change that.

 

As the community liaison it's kind of your job to know what good feedback is, so we trust that you have an understanding of the history of Halo, what made halo a great game, what went wrong, and where we need to go from here. Understand what low-effort feedback is. If somebody can't tell you why they like/dislike something they're probably a waste of your time, it's all about context and detail. Be passionate not only about what you like about the game, but also what you don't like. Don't just be a messenger boy, be the voice of every community.

 

Lastly, if you read this post and you appreciated what I've written with my time, please reply or upvote. We've been falling on deaf ears for a really long time, and actually interacting with us means the world.

  • Upvote (+1) 5

Share this post


Link to post

The lack of actual social arena lists killed this game for me.

 

Like, you literally cannot stop playing this game or you are fucked. Oh you haven't played H5 in three weeks here some social playlists where you will only match onyx and champs. Oh, fuck, thanks H5. You're the best.

  • Upvote (+1) 3
  • Downvote (-1) 4

Share this post


Link to post

That's because 343 knows what the online population is.

 

C'mon guys, I expect people on this forum to be smarter than the average Halo player.

 

The reason match making can't match you with other solo queue players is because the online population sucks. There's a reason there's no online population count in the UI. Pro tip: It's because 343 is embarrassed about how poor it is.

 

If they flicked a switch to make it so teams of 4 could only get matched against teams of 4 there would be a trillion threads all over the internet the next day complaining that it takes 15 minutes average to find a game. (Players from my region haven't been able to find games outside of peak hours for like 6 months now)

 

Show me a game that has this feature.

 

Oh, CS:GO? Yeah, has like 10X's as many active players?

 

LoL? Yeah, has 100X's as many active players.

 

Now show me a game with the same population as Halo. I'll wait.

maybe the game has a shitty population for things like not having a solo queue or party restrictions? Maybe bad players didn't like going in by themselves and matching teams of four and then the bad players quit?
  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

The lack of actual social arena lists killed this game for me.

 

Like, you literally cannot stop playing this game or you are fucked. Oh you haven't played H5 in three weeks here some social playlists where you will only match onyx and champs. Oh, fuck, thanks H5. You're the best.

Way to welcome the new community manager. Real productive. Im sure this is going to add legitimacy to our arguments

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

343 you only had to do one thing.

4v4 SOCIAL SLAYER . The most played playlist in the history of Halo and we still don't have it.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Way to welcome the new community manager. Real productive. Im sure this is going to add legitimacy to our arguments

 

Those shills deserve all the shit they get. We should drive away every shill that comes to this website.

 

Then we should complain about how the shills never listen to us. Then when another shill pops up... /s

 

It's a self-fulfilling cycle.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Those shills deserve all the shit they get. We should drive away every shill that comes to this website.

 

Then we should complain about how the shills never listen to us. Then when another shill pops up... /s

 

It's a self-fulshilling cycle.

FTFY ;)

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

If Halo 5 has Solo Q, fixed servers, and a better aiming system I would enjoy playing the game.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Here's another cycle:

 

1. Hundreds of posts are made explaining in painstaking detail the problems with the game and how to fix them. YouTube videos, essay posts, short and succinct explanations; the whole nine yards.

2. They are ignored by 343.

3. A few people get mad and insult 343; suddenly 343 is here to talk about how "toxic" the community is.

4. Beyond says, "hey guys, we should be nice and reasonable or they'll ignore us".

5. Go back to step 1.

 

1. Compared to the hourly "this game is shit" and "343 is incompetent" one-liners? Why should someone read through a thousand of those of those comments just to look for the hundred constructive and intellectual ones?

 

2-5. See step 1.

 

You quote toxic as if Team Beyond isn't just that. It is absolutely true that our relationship with 343 is terrible. They've outright ignored us and made stupid decisions that have driven the franchise to where it is. But if you honestly believe that our community is a battered victim that did nothing wrong, then you're delusional.

 

We prize ourselves as the best Halo community for debate, yet we abuse the reputation system to silence opinions. We put ourselves above other communities, yet we happily link posts to them and shame their users for our own amusement. And instead of bringing us together, we can't even get along with each other. It's almost like the only thing we hate more than 343 is our own members.

 

And the sad thing is, this community is fine with that. We're content to pretend that our problems don't exist, that everyone else is the problem. We can't even recognize our own flaws, because in spite of our size, we are the least unified Halo community. Don't believe me? Just look at the divide between H5GD and HCS. Want to know what H5GD thinks of them? They shit on them and treat them like children. Not just in H5GD, but everywhere on this forum.

 

If that isn't toxicity, then I don't know what is.

  • Upvote (+1) 6

Share this post


Link to post

Here's another cycle:

 

1. Hundreds of posts are made explaining in painstaking detail the problems with the game and how to fix them. YouTube videos, essay posts, short and succinct explanations; the whole nine yards.

2. They are ignored by 343.

3. A few people get mad and insult 343; suddenly 343 is here to talk about how "toxic" the community is.

4. Beyond says, "hey guys, we should be nice and reasonable or they'll ignore us".

5. Go back to step 1.

 

This reminds me when Frankie came into the H5G thread and ignored 30+ posts until someone posted something slightly insulting and Frankie got all butthurt about it and never came back to TeamBeyond afaik. I mean, I get that he maybe gets a lot of flack and some of it undeserved, but like @@wow said Halo has been in the shitter for 6 years now. We've had the worst launch in gaming history and the worst selling mainline Halo game come out in the last two years.People will be upset and take their anger to the internet, it's just what happens. It's not like the moderators here can start censoring all negativity and turn this place into /r/Halo 2.0

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

1. Compared to the hourly "this game is shit" and "343 is incompetent" one-liners? Why should someone read through a thousand of those of those comments just to look for the hundred constructive and intellectual ones?

 

2-5. See step 1.

 

You quote toxic as if Team Beyond isn't just that. It is absolutely true that our relationship with 343 is terrible. They've outright ignored us and made stupid decisions that have driven the franchise to where it is. But if you honestly believe that our community is a battered victim that did nothing wrong, then you're delusional.

 

We prize ourselves as the best Halo community for debate, yet we abuse the reputation system to silence opinions. We put ourselves above other communities, yet we happily link posts to them and shame their users for our own amusement. And instead of bringing us together, we can't even get along with each other. It's almost like the only thing we hate more than 343 is our own members.

 

And the sad thing is, this community is fine with that. We're content to pretend that our problems don't exist, that everyone else is the problem. We can't even recognize our own flaws, because in spite of our size, we are the least unified Halo community. Don't believe me? Just look at the divide between H5GD and HCS. Want to know what H5GD thinks of them? They shit on them and treat them like children. Not just in H5GD, but everywhere on this forum.

 

If that isn't toxicity, then I don't know what is.

???

When did I say beyond had done nothing wrong? I said there are multiple threads and posts here that are dedicated to in-depth discussion and 343 has ignored them all and focused ONLY on the negative posts.

 

As far as abusing the reputation system r/halo is way worse as downvoted comments are actually moved down the list of comments visually or even covered so that you're less likely to see them. You can still see the comments in order here (I don't like rep systems for places like this at all, though.)

 

as far as the one-liners, all I can say is that 1. You're again missing all of the detailed, constructive criticism, and

2. 343 has earned their reputation with a game that is broken years after release (mcc) and with a game like Halo 5 with a broken theater, no social slayer etc.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Interesting to interpret it as "top MM complaint" when the context outside of here was really "request." I was personally surprised to see "solo queue" related topics as the predominant answer on Reddit. On Waypoint it looked a little different.

 

For perspective it's absolutely not my role or responsibility to be able to enact changes to matchmaking. Instead it's part of my job to make sure that the needs of the community - both at large and honestly even niches within - are being heard and socialized internally towards some kind of outcome. Ideally that outcome is what the audience wants though maybe it's not. In that case it's my job to try and flesh that out and foster a dialog so there's an understanding behind decisions and that fans don't feel simply ignored. We'll never please everyone all the time and as I've said elsewhere, the massive amounts of subtle variations and customizations Halo allows is a huge strength for the game just as it's a big challenge because it's harder and harder to define what the 'majority' of people really enjoy.

 

I half expected 'classic settings' playlist to be #1 on the list of requests because I know it's something at least a very vocal group wants. Should we have it? As a relatively new person here my gut is that yeah, we should. I don't yet know why we don't but I truly hope we will add it and as long as core fans keep demanding it I will keep championing that discussion internally. It's easy for me to say that, weeks into this role, but I understand many have been asking for this for a year now to no avail.

 

I see a lot of great, valid feedback here which is sweet. Of course I also see a ton of the same vitriol and negativity that this community has, for better or worse, become known for. I only want Halo to be as awesome and successful as possible which I think is what most here want as well or why bother expending the time and energy to continue fighting these battles. It's important for us (343) to not lose sight of the overall player base that Team Beyond represents even when it's a continued assault of negativity (though I think the personal attacks are out of line).

 

Anyways, apologies for the semi on-topic / semi-off topic wall of text. I've been lurking around Team Beyond, and I feel like I have a really good grasp of what players here stand for and want, but I don't always seen avenues to personally engage.

 

I suspect that the thread was interpreted in that fashion because the state of match-making in Halo 5 has generally gotten worse consistently since launch and the most we've heard about anything in a long time was regarding a server-side update to finally investigate problems that are hardly new. It's difficult to think about making requests when, for example, you struggle to play a ranked match without a combination of drastically mismatched ranks, broken aiming, boosters, full parties, connection issues, ghost melees, and so on guaranteeing that it will not be an enjoyable experience. Those things aside, core Halo gameplay would certainly be high on my list of requests.

 

Honestly, posts like this help a lot and if we had more of them between the launch of H5 and your hire, there would probably be a lot less anger and negativity to be found here (though, assuredly, there would still be some). Unfortunately, the general trend has seemed to be "engage with the community once then focus on one or two trolls making garbage posts as an excuse to deem the community toxic and leave." A bit of transparency and conversation goes a long way towards fostering a constructive environment. Even if we don't all agree with decisions being made (and that is certainly the case here plenty), acknowledging the issue and ideally offering some explanation will do a lot to reduce general vitriol displayed by people who feel like they've been completely ignored for a long time. A feeling which is captured very well by reactions (from myself and others) to the Anniversary playlist, which comes across to me personally as incredibly tone deaf to the state and desires of the community. Switching the starting weapon to a butchered power weapon version of the H1 Magnum is certainly not my idea of a Throwback experience. So long after launch, it's a bit frustrating to see "classic" gameplay being merely discussed.

 

​I also recognize that it's not your role to make the changes requested and by extension not your faults if they don't. I think it is somewhat unavoidable, especially when so few from 343 regularly and openly engage with the community, that people will associate a public face with the company as a whole. That is particularly true when the decision-making processes remain so obscured and frankly baffling decisions are made. You seem well-equipped to handle this reality and I really hope that facilitating some more communication can have significant positive effects for this series that I would very much like to still enjoy.

  • Upvote (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

???

When did I say beyond had done nothing wrong? I said there are multiple threads and posts here that are dedicated to in-depth discussion and 343 has ignored them all and focused ONLY on the negative posts.

 

As far as abusing the reputation system r/halo is way worse as downvoted comments are actually moved down the list of comments visually or even covered so that you're less likely to see them. You can still see the comments in order here (I don't like rep systems for places like this at all, though.)

 

as far as the one-liners, all I can say is that 1. You're again missing all of the detailed, constructive criticism, and

2. 343 has earned their reputation with a game that is broken years after release (mcc) and with a game like Halo 5 with a broken theater, no social slayer etc.

1. You quoted "toxic". You're mocking his words and implying that they're not true.

 

2. Nobody cares about Reddit. Just agree with me and move on.

 

3. I made a point. For every one piece of good criticism, there is ten that is useless or offensive. Why would anyone want to read through ten mass-repped essays about how they're greedy incompetent morons to find one 5-repped post about fixing Fathom spawns?

 

Second, this is a self-fulfilling cycle. 343 may have started it, but unless we make the effort to stop treating them and each other like shit, things won't improve for either party.

 

Remember, people were tagging Josh Holmes to posts that mocked him, simply just to spite him. As far as I know, 343 employees are still members of the Team Beyond community and should be treated as such.

 

It doesn't exclude them from criticism, but it sure as hell doesn't make them our personal hate sinks. If they don't want to answer our questions, then who the fuck cares? It's their decision, not ours, and we should respect it.

 

As much as I hate this phrase, we're not entitled to anything. If they decide to share, then good. If they just want to sit back and do as normals do, then also good.

 

At ForgeHub, 343 employees are treated like any other member. They're not given any slack, but they aren't idolized either. The result? The ForgeHub community has an outlet to the Forge team, their suggestions have been implemented, and they're involved in finding and fixing bugs.

 

They have never driven away a member of 343, nor have they ever done anything to warrant their leave. And it isn't because the Forge team is amazing (which they are, of course), it's because the community acts with decency, and the developers mirror that.

 

And the funny thing is, the viewpoints of ForgeHub aren't that different from TB. You'd think we'd be friends, yet somehow, we've managed to drive them away as well.

  • Upvote (+1) 3
  • Downvote (-1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

Of course I also see a ton of the same vitriol and negativity that this community has, for better or worse, become known for.

 

Let me tell you, completely non-facetiously, how to fix that. 

 

1. Don't disappear

 

2. Actually respond to our individual posts

 

3. Show comprehension for our complaints/requests

 

4. Display at least a modicum of sympathy for us (yes, I think we deserve it) 

 

5. Don't just show up to promote REQ packs

 

If that sounds negative, well there's a lot of history on this forum (and forums before it) that you may or may not be aware of. Needless to say, I don't think anyone can blame us for being the way that we are. 

 

Lastly, we are not expecting you to work miracles. We've never expected that out of a community rep. We do, however, need someone from the top to listen and understand, even if they can't help. 

  • Upvote (+1) 6

Share this post


Link to post

Remember, people were tagging Josh Holmes to posts that mocked him, simply just to spite him. 

 

Don't be disingenuous. 

 

Everyone was very friendly to both Josh and Frankie when they first touched down here. 

 

The erosion of good will between us was a long and bitter process (shorter for the latter, as it were). 

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

Way to welcome the new community manager. Real productive. Im sure this is going to add legitimacy to our arguments

Well, I mean, he's not wrong...

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Don't be disingenuous.

 

Everyone was very friendly to both Josh and Frankie when they first touched down here.

 

The erosion of good will between us was a long and bitter process (shorter for the latter, as it were).

And? Does that mean we should harass and spite them? That we should treat them like shit and tell them to suck it up, knowing there's nothing they can do about it because they represent their company?

 

For fuck's sake, Unyshek can't even neg a comment without people getting apeshit about it, and he's Unyshek. It's a good thing that the mods are good at their jobs, because I see a lot of ugly shit before it gets deleted.

  • Upvote (+1) 1
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

And? Does that mean we should harass and spite them? That we should treat them like shit and tell them to suck it up, knowing there's nothing they can do about it because they represent their company?

 

For fuck's sake, Unyshek can't even neg a comment without people getting apeshit about it, and he's Unyshek. It's a good thing that the mods are good at their jobs, because I see a lot of ugly shit before it gets deleted.

 

I am going to go ahead and say that yes, we have in fact long passed the breaking point of civility with what we as a community have had to put up with. As I said, we were fair and cordial to 343 reps when they first came around. We didn't turn on them for no reason. Through many rounds of ignoring, shoulder-shrugging, and disappearing acts, we learned that 343 didn't really give a shit about us - we were simply another marketing pool for them to occasionally entertain. 

 

If @@ske7ch legitimately wants to turn the clock back on all of that, then he's going to have to put up with a little residual salt. Nobody has personally attacked him yet. 

  • Upvote (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

And? Does that mean we should harass and spite them? That we should treat them like shit and tell them to suck it up, knowing there's nothing they can do about it because they represent their company?

 

For fuck's sake, Unyshek can't even neg a comment without people getting apeshit about it, and he's Unyshek. It's a good thing that the mods are good at their jobs, because I see a lot of ugly shit before it gets deleted.

Let's not put @@Unyshek on some kind of pedestal. He jumped the shark once he got at 343i and stopped interacting with the community and staff here. Hell, we went out of our way to get him into gaming events since he couldn't get in before he arrived there.

 

Yes people will call him out if you are part of the community staff and your only interaction with the community is negging a head at MLG for discussing issues.

 

As always we do our best to remove incredible negative and insulting posts. We will keep constructive and honest posts though. This is a HOBBY to us, we aren't paid by Microsoft to be a Halo community at the end of the day.

 

YOU send in almost daily reports because people aren't gushing over 343i, that's not on us. If it's a legitimate insult or issue we will handle it. We are not 343i's bodyguards for blocking constructive posts or actual critiques.

  • Upvote (+1) 7

Share this post


Link to post

343 has ignored them all and focused ONLY on the negative posts.

 

I'm not going to pretend that 343 has a great track record, but this is objectively untrue. Sketch said in this very thread that Beyond has a lot of great, constructive feedback. That isn't ignoring positive posts and only focusing on negative posts. And if that isn't concrete enough for you, scroll down to the settings thread where we've had two members of 343 asking for Beyond's opinion on multiple different settings.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

And? Does that mean we should harass and spite them? That we should treat them like shit and tell them to suck it up, knowing there's nothing they can do about it because they represent their company?

 

For fuck's sake, Unyshek can't even neg a comment without people getting apeshit about it, and he's Unyshek. It's a good thing that the mods are good at their jobs, because I see a lot of ugly shit before it gets deleted.

You aren't wrong about some of the stuff you are saying, but the way you are calling out the community is doing nothing but stirring the pot. I'm pretty sure most every post here has acknowledged that team beyond can be unfriendly so what are you trying to add to the conversation?

Share this post


Link to post

I'm not going to pretend that 343 has a great track record, but this is objectively untrue. Sketch said in this very thread that Beyond has a lot of great, constructive feedback. That isn't ignoring positive posts and only focusing on negative posts. And if that isn't concrete enough for you, scroll down to the settings thread where we've had two members of 343 asking for Beyond's opinion on multiple different settings.

 

Between July 2015 and November 2016, Deez had one post. A post lol'ing at a funny gif. 

 

Bravo had ten posts in the first half of 2015 before he disappeared completely. 

 

Frankie is Frankie. 

 

Josh routinely (and by that I mean literally always) refused to engage well-constructed criticisms about both Halo games. 

 

Every 343 member has only posted in the megathreads. There has been a wealth of information found in individual topics that goes completely without remark. 

 

Ghost and Neighbor stopped giving a shit like two centuries ago. 

 

If they appreciate what we do, they sure as hell don't show it. 

  • Upvote (+1) 7

Share this post


Link to post

Between July 2015 and November 2016, Deez had one post. A post lol'ing at a funny gif. 

 

Bravo had ten posts in the first half of 2015 before he disappeared completely. 

 

Frankie is Frankie. 

 

Josh routinely (and by that I mean literally always) refused to engage well-constructed criticisms about both Halo games. 

 

Every 343 member has only posted in the megathreads. There has been a wealth of information found in individual topics that goes completely without remark. 

 

If they appreciate what we do, they sure as hell don't show it. 

 

Yeah, I'm aware of all of this. None of it makes what I said untrue.

 

My point is simply to stop using exaggeration to make your argument easier. Pretending like 343 *never* tries to listen to us is obviously wrong, and it's just as bad as Frankie pretending like we're 100% toxic, or T2 saying we should stop whining, or every other time 343 has said something stupid.

 

We'd be a lot happier if *they* stopped doing that shit, so there's no reason why we shouldn't also stop doing it.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use & Privacy Policy.