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Simplicityyy

Josh Holmes left?

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Caught this on Facebook, but I wanted to post here and on Waypoint to confirm. 

Our beloved Holmes is moving on? :(  I thought he was a great developer. Will miss him.

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Shame. He was probably the most competent individual in a senior role at Microsoft's Halo division.

 

And the seemingly natural successor for when they canned Bonnie.

Well, they didn't fire her. She didn't leave on her own accord.

 

One can only hold out so long while taking orders from a troop of orangutans.

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Shame. He was probably the most competent individual in a senior role at Microsoft's Halo division.

 

And the seemingly natural successor for when they canned Bonnie.

Well, they didn't fire her. She didn't leave on her own accord.

 

One can only hold out so long while taking orders from a troop of orangutans.

???
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I recently heard he left to pursue indie design.

 

And I'm struggling so hard not to be a dick for two reasons.

1.  I'm a major fan of indie games.  They're about all I play these days.

2.  The guy responsible for the 'creative masterpiece' that was Halo 4 wants to pursue a field known for its flying in the face of mainstream ideas.

 

For better or worse I'm eager to see what he comes up with.

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I recently heard he left to pursue indie design.

 

And I'm struggling so hard not to be a dick for two reasons.

1.  I'm a major fan of indie games.  They're about all I play these days.

2.  The guy responsible for the 'creative masterpiece' that was Halo 4 wants to pursue a field known for its flying in the face of mainstream ideas.

 

For better or worse I'm eager to see what he comes up with.

I'd laugh my fucking ass off, if whatever he comes up with is actually 10/10 worthy

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I recently heard he left to pursue indie design.

 

And I'm struggling so hard not to be a dick for two reasons.

1.  I'm a major fan of indie games.  They're about all I play these days.

2.  The guy responsible for the 'creative masterpiece' that was Halo 4 wants to pursue a field known for its flying in the face of mainstream ideas.

 

For better or worse I'm eager to see what he comes up with.

I think they all got fired honestly. 6  or so top people over there leaving in a couple of months time is just not "pursuing their indie-dreams". 

 

Saying they all wanted to pursue their indie dreams is just a nicer way of saying we don't need them here anymore. 

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Eugh, finally.

 

For some reason whenever I clicked on the textbox it wouldn't open, and when I tried more reply options it would open the text box, but then it would just turn into an uninteractable white square after a few seconds.

 

Anyways....

 

Yeah unfortunately I was thinking the exact same thing.  Microsoft is probably pissed about the results of the past few games.  I wouldn't doubt if they were telling people that they could either resign quietly or be fired.

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I think they all got fired honestly. 6  or so top people over there leaving in a couple of months time is just not "pursuing their indie-dreams". 

 

Saying they all wanted to pursue their indie dreams is just a nicer way of saying we don't need them here anymore. 

 

Who were the 6 that "left"?  I haven't been following Halo at all lately. 

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Well he's probably right. There's a reason arena FPS don't sell any more. No one wants to get good at a game, they just want a glorified slot machine that gives them random unlocks every 10 minutes.

 

No they do, in some form, even if they don't know it.

 

If they hate/bitch about getting spawn trapped or just shit on by teams/players better than them, then they want a skill based ranking system (if they complain about matching teams/being unfair w/e then they're in favor of party restrictions).

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No they do, in some form, even if they don't know it.

 

If they hate/bitch about getting spawn trapped or just shit on by teams/players better than them, then they want a skill based ranking system (if they complain about matching teams/being unfair w/e then they're in favor of party restrictions).

 

Or they just play a game like CoD that rewards you with a kill for shooting a player in the foot with an M4 from the other side of the map and rewards you with a freakin' Apache Gunship if you camp in a corner with a shotgun.

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Or they just play a game like CoD that rewards you with a kill for shooting a player in the foot with an M4 from the other side of the map and rewards you with a freakin' Apache Gunship if you camp in a corner with a shotgun.

 

Do you have a point? And none of that has anything to do with what we're talking about here.

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Do you have a point? And none of that has anything to do with what we're talking about here.

 

Follow the quotes...

 

"We did some research and found that the halo community doesnt want a skill based ranking, they want a progression system."

 

Judging by the success of other FPS with progression systems and the out right failure of pretty much every arena FPS shooter in the past decade (not counting Halo) I think it's pretty damn obvious what the average gamer wants.

 

Check out Reflex, Toxikk, Unreal Tournament 4, Quake Live. Tell me how many people are playing these games.

 

They're pretty much all dead. Not even giving the games away for free can help.

 

Sure, maybe the vocal minority wants a pure skill based ranking system but the vast majority of Halo players (the ones you never interact with and never hear from) would prefer to kill you almost instantly with an AR from the other side of the map and be rewarded with a dozen 1337 skins and slot machine rewards after every game. That's just the sad truth of it.

 

TL;DR - He's probably right. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean he's wrong.

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You can have both a progression system and a ranking system.  It's moronic that 343i acts like they're mutually exclusive.

Overwatch has both and is doing just fine.  Its competitive mode is quite popular as well.

 

Quake is dead because the modern gamer has no interest in it.  Possibly because it's not actually as good as people have convinced themselves that it is.  But that's a topic for another day...

 

Those other games are dead because Quake-with-an-aesthetic-redesign is still just Quake.  Like if you're going to make a new arena shooter then actually make a new arena shooter.

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You can have both a progression system and a ranking system.  It's moronic that 343i acts like they're mutually exclusive.

Overwatch is doing just fine.  Its competitive mode is quite popular as well.

 

Quake is dead because the modern gamer has no interest in it.  Possibly because it's not actually as good as people have convinced themselves that it is.  But that's a topic for another day...

 

Those other games are dead because Quake-with-an-aesthetic-redesign is still just Quake.  Like if you're going to make a new arena shooter then actually make a new arena shooter.

 

There is no basis to judge "modern Arena FPS" success because a AAA one hasn't been made in over 8 years. UT4 is not even in beta yet but it still has a dedicated following and will no doubt pick up steam as it progresses and adds more than bare-bones modes and more are made aware of it.

 

.UT4 Pre Alpha - Fatal1ty Game Footage - YouTube This video of Fatal1ty playing duel in the pre-alpha has 125k+ views on Youtube, one of his most watched videos on his channel so right there you can see people still care. There has already been multiple tournaments for the game. Its just getting started and its actually pretty fun gameplay wise and still improving. Quake champions will be the true test though, it will be the first AAA classic Arena FPS in years(outside of champions but that is better than loadouts in my opinion) and will make a huge push to revitalize the e-sport scene. There is also Bluestreak and others to come that are trying new things in the Arena FPS genre.

 

We have seen OW with huge recent success that has many Arena elements(more like TF2 but still) which just proves right there that people will get behind something different than CoD or CS if big scale Arena-style shooters are allowed to be made. Sure its Blizzard, but if you build it they will come and all you need is that one game to kick-start the revival of a genre and then suddenly people are interested again. H5 is also fairly successful and more of an Arena FPS than H4 or HR was in my opinion. Like the recent rise of CRPG's from almost a dead genre to a viable one again. Arena FPS has never been and never will be the "average gamer's" choice of FPS, They require dedication, a multitude of skills not found in any other games, and test all of your FPS skills in a way other shooters dont. However, there is quite a few upcoming Arena-style shooters that will probably have some sort of sustainable success which would be a huge improvement on recent years.

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Quake is dead because the modern gamer has no interest in it.  Possibly because it's not actually as good as people have convinced themselves that it is.  But that's a topic for another day...

 

What, and CoD is a masterpiece because it sells a billion copies on launch?

 

lol, c'mon mate, don't be daft.

 

Of course Quake is amazing, it's just hard for a game like Quake to appeal to the mainstream audience when they're so obsessed with unlocking shit. FFS, there are YouTube videos with MILLIONS of views of players just opening a fucking item from a crate.

 

I don't understand why we don't just cut the middle man and just have kids playing online slot machines, there's obviously a huge market for it. Hear about that recent CS:GO gambling stuff?

 

 

There is no basis to judge "modern Arena FPS" success because a AAA one hasn't been made in over 8 years. UT4 is not even in beta yet but it still has a dedicated following and will no doubt pick up steam as it progresses and adds more than bare-bones modes and more are made aware of it

 

.UT4 Pre Alpha - Fatal1ty Game Footage - YouTube This video of Fatal1ty playing duel in the pre-alpha has 125k+ views on Youtube, one of his most watched videos on his channel so right there you can see people still care. There has already been multiple tournaments for the game. Its just getting started and its actually pretty fun gameplay wise and still improving. Quake champions will be the true test though, it will be the first AAA classic Arena FPS in years(outside of champions but that is better than loadouts in my opinion) and will make a huge push to revitalize the e-sport scene. There is also Bluestreak and others to come that are trying new things in the Arena FPS genre.

 

We have seen OW with huge recent success that has some Arena elements which just proves right there that people will get behind something different than CoD or CS if big scale Arena-style shooters are allowed to be made. Sure its Blizzard, but if you build it they will come and all you need is that one game to kick-start the revival of a genre and then suddenly people are interested again. Arena FPS has never been and never will be the "average gamer's" choice of FPS, They require dedication, a multitude of skills not found in any other games, and test all of your FPS skills in a way other shooters dont. However, there is quite a few upcoming Arena-style shooters that will probably have some sort of sustainable success which would be a huge improvement on recent years.

 

I'm sure UT4 has a loyal following, but you need that loyal following to be hundreds of thousands of people for a game to reach critical mass and appear in the top 5 of Twitch consistently. If there's no mainstream appeal there's no reason for sponsors to get involved and without sponsors there's little reason the play the game when you can just join an Overwatch team and make 10X's the amount of money.

 

Fatal1ty hasn't been relevant for a decade now. 99% of this forum have probably never heard of him.

 

His UT video you mention was released 2 years ago.

 

His 6th most popular video has 48k+ views and was released 1 year ago. That video is on Toxikk and the game is pretty much dead so that doesn't say a lot about a video with not even 3X's the views that has been out twice as long...

 

I honestly don't see any arena FPS elements in Overwatch. The game is as casual as you can get. The game doesn't even display K:D in the scoreboard because they don't want shit players to feel bad about themselves.

 

The arena FPS genre might become popular again when elitist morons understand why their games aren't popular.

 

Quake became popular in the first place because it had a campaign.

Halo became popular in the first place because it had a campaign.

 

And yeah, you can argue that Quake 3 was popular and it had no campaign, but it didn't exactly have a lot of competition at the time and it had a metric fuck tonne of brand recognition which games like Reflex and Toxikk certainly don't have.

 

Yet if you dare suggest to Quake fans that maybe Quake needs a good campaign to be popular they'll look at you as if you shot their dog. Suggest that maybe their should be some vehicles and other fun game types for casuals and they'll be like "hurr durr, vehicles are for noobs go play UT". Then you go to the UT forums and it's "Hurr durr, UT is the best UT, UT2K4 was for noobs" - Which, BTW, is 100% based on their nostalgia for the original. UT2K4 was pretty much better in every single way for pros and casuals alike.

 

Why the hell are all these small indie devs releasing multiplayer online games and then expecting them to be successful? Oh and BTW, where the hell is the developer run tournaments on release day? Have the makers of Toxikk even attempted to run a Toxikk tournament on Twitch TV with decent production values?

 

What we need is a smaller developer with a reasonable budget to create an arena FPS that can include a fun campaign, bot matches, co-op, etc, etc. Then they need to stream their tournaments on Twitch and get decent commentators, not some neckbeard with a stutter and ketchup down his t-shirt and blazer combo to get people excited about watching the bloody thing.

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What, and CoD is a masterpiece because it sells a billion copies on launch?

 

lol, c'mon mate, don't be daft.

 

Of course Quake is amazing, it's just hard for a game like Quake to appeal to the mainstream audience when they're so obsessed with unlocking shit. FFS, there are YouTube videos with MILLIONS of views of players just opening a fucking item from a crate.

 

I don't understand why we don't just cut the middle man and just have kids playing online slot machines, there's obviously a huge market for it. Hear about that recent CS:GO gambling stuff?

 

 

 

I'm sure UT4 has a loyal following, but you need that loyal following to be hundreds of thousands of people for a game to reach critical mass and appear in the top 5 of Twitch consistently. If there's no mainstream appeal there's no reason for sponsors to get involved and without sponsors there's little reason the play the game when you can just join an Overwatch team and make 10X's the amount of money.

 

Fatal1ty hasn't been relevant for a decade now. 99% of this forum have probably never heard of him.

 

His UT video you mention was released 2 years ago.

 

His 6th most popular video has 48k+ views and was released 1 year ago. That video is on Toxikk and the game is pretty much dead so that doesn't say a lot about a video with not even 3X's the views that has been out twice as long...

 

I honestly don't see any arena FPS elements in Overwatch. The game is as casual as you can get. The game doesn't even display K:D in the scoreboard because they don't want shit players to feel bad about themselves.

 

The arena FPS genre might become popular again when elitist morons understand why their games aren't popular.

 

Quake became popular in the first place because it had a campaign.

Halo became popular in the first place because it had a campaign.

 

And yeah, you can argue that Quake 3 was popular and it had no campaign, but it didn't exactly have a lot of competition at the time and it had a metric fuck tonne of brand recognition which games like Reflex and Toxikk certainly don't have.

 

Yet if you dare suggest to Quake fans that maybe Quake needs a good campaign to be popular they'll look at you as if you shot their dog. Suggest that maybe their should be some vehicles and other fun game types for casuals and they'll be like "hurr durr, vehicles are for noobs go play UT". Then you go to the UT forums and it's "Hurr durr, UT is the best UT, UT2K4 was for noobs" - Which, BTW, is 100% based on their nostalgia for the original. UT2K4 was pretty much better in every single way for pros and casuals alike.

 

Why the hell are all these small indie devs releasing multiplayer online games and then expecting them to be successful? Oh and BTW, where the hell is the developer run tournaments on release day? Have the makers of Toxikk even attempted to run a Toxikk tournament on Twitch TV with decent production values?

 

What we need is a smaller developer with a reasonable budget to create an arena FPS that can include a fun campaign, bot matches, co-op, etc, etc. Then they need to stream their tournaments on Twitch and get decent commentators, not some neckbeard with a stutter and ketchup down his t-shirt and blazer combo to get people excited about watching the bloody thing.

 

I like both UT99 and UT2K4(both great FPS with different styles) but yea I agree the whole idea that you have to choose one or the other is part of the current reason UT4 development is struggling right now. Alot of UT99  purists are perceived to be driving the development and alot of Ut2k3/Ut2k4 players are not liking that at all. UT3 was made to be more like UT99 and it just felt bland in comparison, because you cant recreate UT99 its one of the most unique games gameplay wise I have ever played contrary to popular belief by morons that it was a Quake clone(Quake-inspired and quake clone are two different things). 

 

However, back to my original point I was trying to point out that there is still obviously a sizable community that wants a quality modern Arena FPS that is of AAA quality. I love my indie devs and Reflex is definitely a good Arena FPS but its hard to see an indie dev with the capability to bring a genre back like id could do with QC. There have been numerous Arena FPS flops made by indie devs over the years, there just isn't any awareness of those games for anyone but the Arena FPS diehards. Yeah, we definitely need new blood and new ideas but like I said nobody has made a classic AAA Arena FPS in 8+years so how can you attract new players?

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And yeah, you can argue that Quake 3 was popular and it had no campaign, but it didn't exactly have a lot of competition at the time and it had a metric fuck tonne of brand recognition which games like Reflex and Toxikk certainly don't have.

I'm not going to bother with Toxikk, but in Reflex's case (and I'm sure you've already heard this mentioned before), 2 of the devs had worked on a multiplayer mod for Quake 3. The point of the game was to modernize that. They simply don't have the resources to put all multiplayer development on hold for a campaign.

I would love it if they made it possible for the community to make campaigns. A lot of the basic stuff is possible through the editor through the training mode features that they added. Even basic AI enemies would take a bit of dev time though. It would also help them stand out a bit from QL, Diabotical, QC, UT4, etc.

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