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RVG, what is your stance on gun control?

I like what it currently is in my state. Fill out a form at the sheriff's office if you're 18 or older, they run background checks, and 20-30 days later you get a concealed pistol license in the mail. That license allows you to purchase any legal firearm (or lower assemblies if you're getting a kit to build yourself) for sale because it certifies you've gone through background checks. There isn't a good solution to gun violence in the US that I've seen because you can't take 350+ million firearms away from citizens without a lot of guns, a lot of money, and a lot of people getting killed. Murder is already super illegal (it's probably the most illegal thing there is lol) so there isn't any logic that tells me making guns illegal will stop gun violence because people murder anyways. Shootings still happen in large US cities with very strict gun laws so it isn't apparent to me that more gun laws are a solution. As long as responsible background checks are done, I don't see much else that can be put into place. Mental health screenings could delay or prevent some criminal acts but the cost would be insane, and screenings are by no means perfect in and of themselves. If you're mentally deranged and motivated to kill, are you going to answer 'yes' during your screening when they ask if you ever wanted to kill someone? It just isn't clear to me how you can screen for all possible crazy people.

 

Do I sound extreme or what Niku?

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Extreme no, disingenuous yes.

 

Just the same zero sum and strawmanned positions I've seen countless times before.

 

Banning guns doesn't eliminate gun crime just like speeding limits don't eliminate crashes. They do, at least in theory, reduce the frequency. And don't give me good guy with a gun because those instances are rare in reality.

 

Only a minority want to ban ALL guns...which would be pretty much impossible at this point. Confiscating, banning the sale and manufacture of specific kinds of guns though...much more achievable.

 

If some random dude breaks in, steals your guns and commits crimes with them no you shouldn't be held accountable. You had nothing to do with it. If it's your son living with you or something though then yeah you are arguably accountable to a certain extent for letting it happen.

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On 12/18/2018 at 5:03 AM, Ramirez77 said:

Extreme no, disingenuous yes.

 

Just the same zero sum and strawmanned positions I've seen countless times before.

 

Banning guns doesn't eliminate gun crime just like speeding limits don't eliminate crashes. They do, at least in theory, reduce the frequency. And don't give me good guy with a gun because those instances are rare in reality.

 

Only a minority want to ban ALL guns...which would be pretty much impossible at this point. Confiscating, banning the sale and manufacture of specific kinds of guns though...much more achievable.

 

If some random dude breaks in, steals your guns and commits crimes with them no you shouldn't be held accountable. You had nothing to do with it. If it's your son living with you or something though then yeah you are arguably accountable to a certain extent for letting it happen.

What part specifically were you saying was strawman?

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On 12/18/2018 at 1:55 AM, RVG E Nomini said:

I like what it currently is in my state. Fill out a form at the sheriff's office if you're 18 or older, they run background checks, and 20-30 days later you get a concealed pistol license in the mail. That license allows you to purchase any legal firearm (or lower assemblies if you're getting a kit to build yourself) for sale because it certifies you've gone through background checks. There isn't a good solution to gun violence in the US that I've seen because you can't take 350+ million firearms away from citizens without a lot of guns, a lot of money, and a lot of people getting killed. Murder is already super illegal (it's probably the most illegal thing there is lol) so there isn't any logic that tells me making guns illegal will stop gun violence because people murder anyways. Shootings still happen in large US cities with very strict gun laws so it isn't apparent to me that more gun laws are a solution. As long as responsible background checks are done, I don't see much else that can be put into place. Mental health screenings could delay or prevent some criminal acts but the cost would be insane, and screenings are by no means perfect in and of themselves. If you're mentally deranged and motivated to kill, are you going to answer 'yes' during your screening when they ask if you ever wanted to kill someone? It just isn't clear to me how you can screen for all possible crazy people.

 

Do I sound extreme or what Niku?

Do you have to go through that process for each individual firearm?  I am assuming so...

I have to pass a BG check with every firearm purchase but we do it in the actual gun shop / store.  There is no interaction at the local police station, unless I am trying to get a CCW, in which case, I need to pass an actual class test / course, register with the sheriff, pay dues, receive another BG check (more extensive) and wait for approval (which is somewhat under the personal judgement of my local sheriff).

As for the mental health aspect.  I think some level of ability (by the FBI) to review a person's personal medical background before purchasing a weapon isn't a terrible idea.  In alot of the mass shootings that we have seen in the past 10 years or so, I believe a substantial portion of the shooters purchased the weapons within a fairly close time frame to the actual shooting and those particular shooters (if not all of them lol) were also on some heavy mental meds.  I realize there's solid arguments on both sides about this issue. 

Another item to note is the police and FBI's unwillingness (or maybe lack of resources) in investigating potential shooters beforehand.  I've read countless times that these shooters show early signs through social media posts, family members providing FBI with warnings, friends at school etc. that all go un-checked.  We need to treat warning signs, threats etc. with stiff investigation and consequences imo.  Maybe allowing the FBI access to better statistics would help the matter.  I dont know...

@NikuI'll also add that America isn't a fucking warzone, lol.  To say so leads me to believe you have absolutely no idea what you're talking and simply responding to local sensationalist news network stories.  Outside of some inner city ghetto shitholes, America is a VERY safe country to live in.

 

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23 minutes ago, Cypress said:

Do you have to go through that process for each individual firearm?  I am assuming so...

I have to pass a BG check with every firearm purchase but we do it in the actual gun shop / store.  There is no interaction at the local police station, unless I am trying to get a CCW, in which case, I need to pass an actual class test / course, register with the sheriff, pay dues, receive another BG check (more extensive) and wait for approval (which is somewhat under the personal judgement of my local sheriff).

As for the mental health aspect.  I think some level of ability (by the FBI) to review a person's personal medical background before purchasing a weapon isn't a terrible idea.  In alot of the mass shootings that we have seen in the past 10 years or so, I believe a substantial portion of the shooters purchased the weapons within a fairly close time frame to the actual shooting and those particular shooters (if not all of them lol) were also on some heavy mental meds.  I realize there's solid arguments on both sides about this issue. 

Another item to note is the police and FBI's unwillingness (or maybe lack of resources) in investigating potential shooters beforehand.  I've read countless times that these shooters show early signs through social media posts, family members providing FBI with warnings, friends at school etc. that all go un-checked.  We need to treat warning signs, threats etc. with stiff investigation and consequences imo.  Maybe allowing the FBI access to better statistics would help the matter.  I dont know...

@NikuI'll also add that America isn't a fucking warzone, lol.  To say so leads me to believe you have absolutely no idea what you're talking and simply responding to local sensationalist news network stories.  Outside of some inner city ghetto shitholes, America is a VERY safe country to live in.

 

Are you even a scholar in fascism? 

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Most of the gun control plans pushed by Democrats (No open or concealed carry, background checks, etc) in America, are already in place in Mexico, a country with a slightly higher murder rate.

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On 12/18/2018 at 12:56 AM, Niku said:

Your country is a nonstop warzone lol, whatever you reap what you sow, enjoy your future of fascism.

 

War is peace

Freedom is slavery

Ignorance is strength

Serious question: Have you ever been to America? Especially any of the areas that actually own guns? 

 

All the murder happens in cities on the Mississippi River (St. Louis, Memphis, New Orleans) or in Chicago, all cities that are culturally different than the surrounding areas (where the Republicans with guns actually live). States with absurdly high gun ownership like Wyoming, Montana, Idaho and the Dakotas have among the least murders. Heck Colorado where I'm from has quite a lot of guns for a blue state and we have basically no murder.

Outside of Southern Democrat cities,  generally all gun deaths are suicides, not murders (and of course countries with more suicides than us like Eastern Europe and Asia have way fewer guns than America). And even those tough cities are nothing compared to Mexico, or any South American cities.

America is not dangerous. 

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4 hours ago, pharmassists said:

What part specifically were you saying was strawman?

"You can't get rid of ALL guns."

Which to be fair he's responding to Niku but I see this used all the time and it's fucking annoying.  Very few liberals want to ban ALL guns.

Also this new forum layout...this ain't it chief...

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3 hours ago, TheDood said:

Serious question: Have you ever been to America? Especially any of the areas that actually own guns? 

 

All the murder happens in cities on the Mississippi River (St. Louis, Memphis, New Orleans) or in Chicago, all cities that are culturally different than the surrounding areas (where the Republicans with guns actually live). States with absurdly high gun ownership like Wyoming, Montana, Idaho and the Dakotas have among the least murders. Heck Colorado where I'm from has quite a lot of guns for a blue state and we have basically no murder.

Outside of Southern Democrat cities,  generally all gun deaths are suicides, not murders (and of course countries with more suicides than us like Eastern Europe and Asia have way fewer guns than America). And even those tough cities are nothing compared to Mexico, or any South American cities.

America is not dangerous. 

Yes it is. You have a mass shooting every second day whereas if someone does it in Europe it will be on the news for months (unless of course the perpetrator is a white male and shouting heil hitler)

 

You live in a barbaric society. Australia has had 0 mass shootings since the law came into effect. I will never set foot in America at any time in my life, it is a crumbling hell hole of a police state. It suffers from endless right wing terror attacks. Not even the 'good guy with the gun' gets out alive especially if they're black. Fuck that shit

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33 minutes ago, Ramirez77 said:

"You can't get rid of ALL guns."

Which to be fair he's responding to Niku but I see this used all the time and it's fucking annoying.  Very few liberals want to ban ALL guns.

Also this new forum layout...this ain't it chief...

If you aren't pushing for perpetual peace and the entire abolishing of war, crime, murder than you aren't technically a progressive. A society without guns is a civil one. I want to ban all guns. No one needs a gun. It is logical.

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4 hours ago, Cypress said:

 

@NikuI'll also add that America isn't a fucking warzone, lol.  To say so leads me to believe you have absolutely no idea what you're talking and simply responding to local sensationalist news network stories.  Outside of some inner city ghetto shitholes, America is a VERY safe country to live in.

 

mass_shootings-1.png

war zone

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32 minutes ago, Niku said:

Yes it is. You have a mass shooting every second day whereas if someone does it in Europe it will be on the news for months (unless of course the perpetrator is a white male and shouting heil hitler)

 

You live in a barbaric society. Australia has had 0 mass shootings since the law came into effect. I will never set foot in America at any time in my life, it is a crumbling hell hole of a police state. It suffers from endless right wing terror attacks. Not even the 'good guy with the gun' gets out alive especially if they're black. Fuck that 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/12/world/australia/mass-shooting-osmington.html

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41 minutes ago, Niku said:

Yes it is. You have a mass shooting every second day whereas if someone does it in Europe it will be on the news for months (unless of course the perpetrator is a white male and shouting heil hitler)

 

You live in a barbaric society. Australia has had 0 mass shootings since the law came into effect. I will never set foot in America at any time in my life, it is a crumbling hell hole of a police state. It suffers from endless right wing terror attacks. Not even the 'good guy with the gun' gets out alive especially if they're black. Fuck that shit

We have 326 million people, including millions of 3rd worlders that have flooded in during the past 25 years or so. In my view, we are heavily overpopulated. Australia, not much smaller in total size than the US, has only 24 million people and 92% white. I wish we could just ship you all of our millions of 3rd worlders and see how things go.

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12 minutes ago, Brad Pitt said:

We have 326 million people, including millions of 3rd worlders that have flooded in during the past 25 years or so. In my view, we are heavily overpopulated. Australia, not much smaller in total size than the US, has only 24 million people and 92% white. I wish we could just ship you all of our millions of 3rd worlders and see how things go.

 

9 minutes ago, Brad Pitt said:

Like, God damn, it must be heaven on Earth living in a country that is 92% white and only 24 million people.

Bruh this is some creepy racist shit. Blaming all of America's problems on non-whites damn dude. Australia is not a white ethnostate, fuck off you ugly degenerative testosterone smuggler

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24 minutes ago, Brad Pitt said:

Like, God damn, it must be heaven on Earth living in a country that is 92% white and only 24 million people.

But the democrats are the party of racism, ladies and gentleman.

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7 minutes ago, Buffdaddy Jamal said:

 

Wow, blacks who have been institutionally shit on by white America perpetually commit more crimes because they're politically less powerful and on the fringes of society. What does this prove? This is a scourge on the reputation American leadership (which is white and pushing as much gun ownership on the population as possible) not on the powerless.

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renowned Harvard scientist and evolutionary biologist Stephen Jay Gould explains why the alt-right, conservatives and so-called "classical liberals" are obsessed with IQ and the pseudo-scientific and racist "Bell Curve" argument, and why it is so harmful to society

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16 minutes ago, Niku said:

 

Bruh this is some creepy racist shit. Blaming all of America's problems on non-whites damn dude. Australia is not a white ethnostate, fuck off you ugly degenerative testosterone smuggler

It's just logic and common sense. If America had 92% white population and only 24 million people, we would be just as peaceful as Australia. In fact, I think we would be even more peaceful because with our GDP, everyone would be millionaires or at least making 6 figures. It's easy to talk shit when you don't live in a massively over populated and ethnically diverse country.

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we gotta scrub the brains of these crypto nazi 'empiricists' that use IQ and crime rates to prove their vile racist ideology that dates back to the beginning of America.

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