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Joseph

Beyond 4v4 No Radar Invitational Announcement

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This comment captures the insanity of your argument better than anything else that has been said.

 

 

 

Step zero is to glaze over the fact that your comment describes literally all actions that can be taken in any Halo game. Instead, I'll take the good faith interpretation - that these actions are discrete, and do not require adaptation to the situation, so they can be memorized like a piece on the piano. 

 

Even if this was true, the same could be said about the following list of things that we can now, according to you, ditch without consequence:

- RRX, RRXYYRRX

- Double melees (BLB)

- BXR

- Simultaneous nade throw + reload

- YY'ing to speed up reloads

- etc.

 

which are all pieces of tech that have improved their respective games' skillgaps, as is well known. The reason is that "just use them in a certain situation" is easier said than done, especially when the sequence of buttons is challenging to pull off.

 

One thing I didn't include in that list that I could have is every jump in the halo series, ever. Each skill jump is restricted to a single geographic location, meaning that you can practice them ad nauseum in a custom game and then carry that muscle memory directly into a game. The chill out window jump is a simple series of button presses that can be practiced and repeated in exactly the same way. Would you argue that the existence of that jump is a trivial addition to the skill gap?

 

 

But actually, it doesn't even matter whether you would or not, because all of these actions that can be "memorized" are NOT similar to the movement mechanics in Halo 5 that I just described. Mixing and matching Halo 5's movement techniques routinely leads to movement patterns that are completely unique to a game and situation. Skillful composition of these techniques is such a rich, expressive space that each player actually has their own movement style. This is why I bring up Frosty. You can also look at Commonly, Penguin, Suspector, Naded, El Town and Snipedown, and each one will have a VERY distinct playstyle that you could probably discern just by watching their screen, without any other clues. They consistently find "solutions", for lack of a better word, for getting out of tricky situations by combining the different properties of ground pound, thrust, mid-air spartan charges and slides. These "solutions" as I'm calling them are equally used for attacking, retreating, or just gaining an unlikely position. If you think of each action as a letter, then you can interpret the more common sequences of actions as words. Each person can make their own sentences, or invent bespoke words for unusual situations. Your favorite pro speaks their own movement language. You're telling me that that's lame because there's a finite number of letters?! and a list of very common words??!

 

The fact that you're unable to appreciate that fact tells me that you're either not playing the game, not watching the pros, or not actually allowing yourself to believe that "gimmicks" could actually become an important part of a well-rounded game. I thought these things were going to be terrible when I saw the previews for Halo 5 too - I am the original champion of "simplicity bears complexity". You can go look through the old MLG forums, I literally invented that argument. But you're being straight-up close minded if  you can't accept that Halo 5 did something cool in this space that is comparable to the greatness of Halo 1. This is an innovation - Halo 1 works perfectly as it is, and I wouldn't want to start adding thrust into Halo 1. But likewise, I don't want to start ripping stuff out of Halo 5. Halo 5 works as it is, as a complete sandbox. That's why we should be looking for small balance improvements, not trying to rebuild the game from scratch.

 

You call me insane, and then claim that you LITERALLY founded the "simplicity" argument. Lmao.

 

You're the one who listed very situational plays. I was responding to those. Sure those situational button presses add to the skillgap but compared to creative freedom from the player, they are miniscule. Because anyone can practice those jumps for a couple days and get good at them.

 

The Chill Out window jump is a tool that a player can choose to use. It doesn't give an objectively superior position. You were talking about using abilities that get you higher ground or get you the OS for free. The only one that wasn't was the one about thrusting out with a sniper and taking a shot and then GPing back, which I agree adds interesting creativity to the game.

 

All of the old button combos you described are available to the player at almost all times btw and add to a player's arsenal. That's the difference. I was listing movement options in Halo CE that are completely dependent on the player's playstyle.

 

I never once said some of the movement options in Halo 5 didn't take skill. Like I said, I was responding to your very situational arguments and saying, AS A WHOLE, CE movement has a higher skillgap because it requires more thought from the player and your movements can be punished if not executed properly, vs Halo 5 where you just thrust and run away all the time. I agree that ground pound and just more aerial control in general would add to the skillgap. But Halo 5 takes it too far and adds all these abilities that require radar to otherwise people get completely lost as to what's happening around them, which conversely reduces the skillgap. Again, simplicity.

 

 

 

I do think Halo 5's movement style could be transferred over to a different game and be a cool unique thing if done as something that is not a "Halo" game. Right now its a mishmash of some new ideas and old Halo ideas which don't really work well together. You can tell 343 wants to make something completely different from Halo. Why not just let them go off and do their own thing and give Halo back to a developer that actually gives a shit about what the franchise is truly all about?

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Maps with verticality are the ones most hampered by radar, Jesus Christ when did verticality become an issue lmao. Play a game on Haven/Mercy and try to escape bottom mid with teams sitting above you with radar. Non vertical maps are the ones hardly affected.

 

The "verticality" of Halo 5 compared to previous games has been grossly overstated.  There are lots of little nooks that you can sit on, but it doesn't mean that in actual gunfights, when it matters, you are moving vertically.

 

its slightly more vertical than some prior iterations sure, but its not some revolutionary change that requires a total rethink of aiming mechanics and radar's involvement in competitive.

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You call me insane

 

 

I'm calling your _argument_ insane. Big difference.

 

claim that you LITERALLY founded the "simplicity" argument. Lmao.

 

I coined that phrase as it relates to arguing about Halo settings, I'm not saying I invented the concept. I'd find you a screenshot of the original MLG threads where we started talking about this stuff but I can't find the archives. I also was the first person to talk about the idea of an ideal range for battles, and along with Aggresnyak I was one of the people who first started being scientific about the effects of bloom. My forum handle used to be -NaStY-, if you used the MLG forums you would have seen a dozen diatribes from me about removing cruft from the settings. All of this is appeal to authority - the only reason I bring it up is that I sense some people are coloring the content of my posts based on an assumption that I'm naive to the historical context here. 

 

 

You're the one who listed very situational plays. I was responding to those. Sure those situational button presses add to the skillgap but compared to creative freedom from the player, they are miniscule. Because anyone can practice those jumps for a couple days and get good at them.

 

I listed specific examples to make the concepts concrete. As general concepts, those techniques make up part of the creative freedom of the player. I feel like I gave a solid explanation of this in the previous post. There is a near-infinite number of (situation,movement pattern,opponent location) combos. 

 

The Chill Out window jump is a tool that a player can choose to use. It doesn't give an objectively superior position. You were talking about using abilities that get you higher ground or get you the OS for free. The only one that wasn't was the one about thrusting out with a sniper and taking a shot and then GPing back, which I agree adds interesting creativity to the game.

 

I gave a method for winning the race to the OS by taking a risk. I almost couldn't imagine a more perfect analog to your example, which was dropping on the OS from top cat on Damnation. Take a risk, win the race to the OS. 

 

All jumps are situational. Sometimes they help, sometimes they don't. Your line of argument here is off the rails. Those techniques are broadly applicable, I shouldn't have to explain this further.

 

 

All of the old button combos you described are available to the player at almost all times btw and add to a player's arsenal. That's the difference. I was listing movement options in Halo CE that are completely dependent on the player's playstyle.

 

So are all the H5 movement patterns, so it's the same issue as above. You're over-assuming how situational these patterns are. Think about it this way - they give you the freedom to carve much more complicated paths through the 3D space than previous Halos, with a huge variety of cadences. Sometimes you can use this to climb up to a higher ledge, but it's a generic technique for opening and closing sight lines with the timing that you want. So for instance, initiate a ground pound so that a rocket has time to detonate before you fall into its radius. That's an example where you didn't change your movement path, but you changed the speed you traversed it. Or as another example, jumping out of top rail on The Rig, and then thrusting back in through the bottom window. That's a movement path you can't create in older titles because it changes direction midair. Now chain it together and you get something like: sprint down cafe ramp, thrust and bounce off of a light fixture, then stabilize mid-air to hold the sightline into loop open, then initiate a groundpound to wait out the cooldown timers, and finally thrust forward again so you can clamber top center and grab Camo. That's something I personally do on Plaza that I haven't seen anybody do _quite_ the same way. 

 

Notice that I'm not running out of examples here. I can describe 20 more situations on Plaza that have a different character.

 

 

I never once said some of the movement options in Halo 5 didn't take skill. Like I said, I was responding to your very situational arguments and saying, AS A WHOLE, CE movement has a higher skillgap because it requires more thought from the player and your movements can be punished if not executed properly, vs Halo 5 where you just thrust and run away all the time. I agree that ground pound and just more aerial control in general would add to the skillgap. But Halo 5 takes it too far and adds all these abilities that require radar to otherwise people get completely lost as to what's happening around them, which conversely reduces the skillgap. Again, simplicity.

 

I think you're conflating positioning with movement tech. CE obviously has the most emphasis on positioning, but the actual mechanics of the movement are simple. This has more to do with the grenade mechanics and the high controllability of the spawns though. Halo 5 is more fast paced, but it's a non sequitur to say that this is "too far".

 

I really get the feeling that you're not actually investing much time in the game, because you're complaining about bad positioning going unpunished and people just running away. This is a complaint from the Halo 4 / Reach era. It was sure as hell was true then, but it is very obviously not true anymore. Kill speeds are up, and shields don't recharge when you sprint. If you'd just play the game or watch some scrims you'd acknowledge this point, but it's hard to argue from first principles. It's kind of like the other poster arguing that there's no shooting skill gap. If you just play the game it will become patently obvious that this isn't true, but I can't write anything here to convince you otherwise.

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I've seen a lot of people talk about the potential cons of removing radar.

1. Did we ever want to add radar into competitive Halo before?

2. When it was added to this game, was that for the sake of the gameplay being improved or the gameplay staying closer to vanilla Halo? I'd argue the latter.

 

My point is that I don't believe there was any reason to keep radar in, in the first place. Besides I have seen no radar played, it was awesome and the players were having a blast

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I've seen a lot of people talk about the potential cons of removing radar.

1. Did we ever want to add radar into competitive Halo before?

2. When it was added to this game, was that for the sake of the gameplay being improved or the gameplay staying closer to vanilla Halo? I'd argue the latter.

 

My point is that I don't believe there was any reason to keep radar in, in the first place. Besides I have seen no radar played, it was awesome and the players were having a blast

Yes. Many have argued without end about how different default (vanilla) settings are to competitive settings, and to 343i's credit, they did try to do a compromise, but that's the problem. There isn't any way to make radar work without alienating those that liked it to begin with. It's a bad idea as far as MP is concerned (I would argue its bad for SP also, but nevermind) and so unless they decide to replace it with something satisfactory (say a tagging system, don't know how many times I have to mention this) it'll always remain an issue.

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I'm calling your _argument_ insane. Big difference.

 

 

I coined that phrase as it relates to arguing about Halo settings, I'm not saying I invented the concept. I'd find you a screenshot of the original MLG threads where we started talking about this stuff but I can't find the archives. I also was the first person to talk about the idea of an ideal range for battles, and along with Aggresnyak I was one of the people who first started being scientific about the effects of bloom. My forum handle used to be -NaStY-, if you used the MLG forums you would have seen a dozen diatribes from me about removing cruft from the settings. All of this is appeal to authority - the only reason I bring it up is that I sense some people are coloring the content of my posts based on an assumption that I'm naive to the historical context here.

 

 

 

I listed specific examples to make the concepts concrete. As general concepts, those techniques make up part of the creative freedom of the player. I feel like I gave a solid explanation of this in the previous post. There is a near-infinite number of (situation,movement pattern,opponent location) combos.

 

 

I gave a method for winning the race to the OS by taking a risk. I almost couldn't imagine a more perfect analog to your example, which was dropping on the OS from top cat on Damnation. Take a risk, win the race to the OS.

 

All jumps are situational. Sometimes they help, sometimes they don't. Your line of argument here is off the rails. Those techniques are broadly applicable, I shouldn't have to explain this further.

 

 

 

So are all the H5 movement patterns, so it's the same issue as above. You're over-assuming how situational these patterns are. Think about it this way - they give you the freedom to carve much more complicated paths through the 3D space than previous Halos, with a huge variety of cadences. Sometimes you can use this to climb up to a higher ledge, but it's a generic technique for opening and closing sight lines with the timing that you want. So for instance, initiate a ground pound so that a rocket has time to detonate before you fall into its radius. That's an example where you didn't change your movement path, but you changed the speed you traversed it. Or as another example, jumping out of top rail on The Rig, and then thrusting back in through the bottom window. That's a movement path you can't create in older titles because it changes direction midair. Now chain it together and you get something like: sprint down cafe ramp, thrust and bounce off of a light fixture, then stabilize mid-air to hold the sightline into loop open, then initiate a groundpound to wait out the cooldown timers, and finally thrust forward again so you can clamber top center and grab Camo. That's something I personally do on Plaza that I haven't seen anybody do _quite_ the same way.

 

Notice that I'm not running out of examples here. I can describe 20 more situations on Plaza that have a different character.

 

 

 

I think you're conflating positioning with movement tech. CE obviously has the most emphasis on positioning, but the actual mechanics of the movement are simple. This has more to do with the grenade mechanics and the high controllability of the spawns though. Halo 5 is more fast paced, but it's a non sequitur to say that this is "too far".

 

I really get the feeling that you're not actually investing much time in the game, because you're complaining about bad positioning going unpunished and people just running away. This is a complaint from the Halo 4 / Reach era. It was sure as hell was true then, but it is very obviously not true anymore. Kill speeds are up, and shields don't recharge when you sprint. If you'd just play the game or watch some scrims you'd acknowledge this point, but it's hard to argue from first principles. It's kind of like the other poster arguing that there's no shooting skill gap. If you just play the game it will become patently obvious that this isn't true, but I can't write anything here to convince you otherwise.

I never said it was more technically demanding. I said it was more cerebreally demanding. I even specifically said that the technical skill floor of these new gimmicks is raising it beyond those of previous titles which I think is a negative.

 

It's still movement skill though. You have to know how to traverse the maps in CE intelligently and unpredictably. Positional skill is more about being in a certain place to support teammates especially in later Haloes, infamously in Lockout and Sanctuary. CE maps such as chill out demand that you don't sit in one place for too long and you have to know how to exit and enter rooms and hallways without getting caught off guard by being more unpredictable than your opponent within the limits of the game. Halo 5 has gone so far down the road and given players so many routes that radar is required though, which as I said earlier conversely dumbs down the movement options you can actually take and restricts you and turns halo 5 into an AR, radar watching campfest at times. It's even worse though because all these new movement options give players so many escape options that it turns into cat and mouse. The no shield recharge mechanic doesnt even matter because you can just endlessly sprint away or sprint back to teammates and force the chaser to go in to an exposed area. It's not fast paced because this shit actually slows the game down into this back and forth crap where neither side is dying often. It just gives the illusion of fast pace because you see people running around all game but they're not actually accomplishing as much because there's no climax to the engagements. Also the maps are all stretched out to accommodate these abilities.

 

Kill speeds aren't up as a result of this. That is a false statement. CE takes 8-10 minutes for a full 2v2 game. 4v4 halo 5 takes longer than this. 4v4 CE would probably take 5 minutes most of the time but we found that 4v4 was too chaotic and stopped playing it... Much like halo 5 is too chaotic.

 

 

And there is no way you can reasonably claim you were the first to use that phrase in relation to Halo. That's utterly delusional. You did not scour literally every Halo forum at the time and determine you were the first.

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The "verticality" of Halo 5 compared to previous games has been grossly overstated. There are lots of little nooks that you can sit on, but it doesn't mean that in actual gunfights, when it matters, you are moving vertically.

 

its slightly more vertical than some prior iterations sure, but its not some revolutionary change that requires a total rethink of aiming mechanics and radar's involvement in competitive.

I agree? I'm just saying levels are made a certain way independent of radars influence. Radar just hampers movement. It kills intentional design decisions.

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I agree? I'm just saying levels are made a certain way independent of radars influence. Radar just hampers movement. It kills intentional design decisions.

lol sorry.  I should have said "This ^^" or something.  I agree too.  I was just adding to your original point.

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Shooting while thrusting is something that lots of people advocate for, but its arguable how important that would even be in the grand scheme of things.

 

 

The cool down from thrusting and being able to shoot is the exact same as the minimum time to shoot between pistol shots. You can shoot while thrusting in Halo 5 already.

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The cool down from thrusting and being able to shoot is the exact same as the minimum time to shoot between pistol shots. You can shoot while thrusting in Halo 5 already.

but then you can thrust right before they shoot though, regardless of your cooldown between shots, so you make them miss and then clean them up while thrusting. also theres other guns to consider than just the pistol

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I never said it was more technically demanding. I said it was more cerebreally demanding. I even specifically said that the technical skill floor of these new gimmicks is raising it beyond those of previous titles which I think is a negative.

 

It's still movement skill though. You have to know how to traverse the maps in CE intelligently and unpredictably. Positional skill is more about being in a certain place to support teammates especially in later Haloes, infamously in Lockout and Sanctuary. CE maps such as chill out demand that you don't sit in one place for too long and you have to know how to exit and enter rooms and hallways without getting caught off guard by being more unpredictable than your opponent within the limits of the game. Halo 5 has gone so far down the road and given players so many routes that radar is required though, which as I said earlier conversely dumbs down the movement options you can actually take and restricts you and turns halo 5 into an AR, radar watching campfest at times. It's even worse though because all these new movement options give players so many escape options that it turns into cat and mouse. The no shield recharge mechanic doesnt even matter because you can just endlessly sprint away or sprint back to teammates and force the chaser to go in to an exposed area. It's not fast paced because this shit actually slows the game down into this back and forth crap where neither side is dying often. It just gives the illusion of fast pace because you see people running around all game but they're not actually accomplishing as much because there's no climax to the engagements. Also the maps are all stretched out to accommodate these abilities.

 

Kill speeds aren't up as a result of this. That is a false statement. CE takes 8-10 minutes for a full 2v2 game. 4v4 halo 5 takes longer than this. 4v4 CE would probably take 5 minutes most of the time but we found that 4v4 was too chaotic and stopped playing it... Much like halo 5 is too chaotic.

 

 

And there is no way you can reasonably claim you were the first to use that phrase in relation to Halo. That's utterly delusional. You did not scour literally every Halo forum at the time and determine you were the first.

 

I think we're at an impasse, we're talking past each other. Your description of H5 gameplay bears no resemblance to the game I've been watching and playing.

 

If you want, why don't you pick a match that's coming up tonight and we'll watch it and take notes? I'm nothing if not intellectually honest, so if it's a radar campfest and we have timestamp ranges where people are doing nothing interesting, I will accept that data point. Nobody took me up on a similar offer last night, but I took it upon myself to start counting pistol shots on Ninja's stream, and he unsurprisingly had dozens of 8 shot pistol fights where there was no thrust. I genuinely think you will be surprised.

 

 

I do have a few other thoughts on what you said:

 

1. Measuring game time is not a good proxy for kill speeds. Kill speed refers to how long it takes to perfectly kill somebody. The Halo 5 sandbox has minimum killtimes comparable to H2 and H3, which were "fine". Halo CE obviously has the lowest min kill time. Its average kill time is by far the highest as a percentage of its min, and in absolute terms it's pretty similar to H2/H3. So pistol-only kills take a similar amount of time to the other games. What makes the games faster, on certain gametypes at least, is that you're usually getting spawn killed or fucked by camo rocks. So you spend less non-fighting time alive.

 

2. It seems like your argument revolves around "Halo 5 is not as good as CE". I don't agree with that statement when it comes to movement mechanics (let's please not agonize over exactly what I mean by that right now). But even if I did, saying H5 is not quite as good as CE would still not be very damning. If it's better than H2, H3, and ZBNS Reach, then that's pretty fucking good.

 

3. Fine, I'm delusional, I wasn't THE first person to say those words. To my knowledge, in the context of the MLG forums (who the fuck cares about any other forums...), I raised that concept into the vernacular. Does this really matter? The point is that I identify with the axiom that simple is good. And yet here I am, a fellow simple-sympathizer, trying to make the point that the H5 movement mechanics work for me on a game-design level. That's all I'm trying to get across.

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To claim that there is a significant aiming skill gap in halo 5 is an utter joke. Unless again you're talking purely about the skill floor in regards to the God awful aiming which has fundamentally broken the game and makes it unplayable to competitive players who spend a lot more time in other games which have normal aiming acceleration.

 

So you're saying that there's no aiming skill gap in Halo 5, unless you're measuring the actual empirical skill gap. But since aiming is hard for the wrong reasons, you don't like it. You basically couldn't find a more perfect example of "It's only skill if I can do it" thinking.

 

Dude, I'm with you - the transition to the H5 aimer feel is strange. But aiming has felt different in almost every title transition. H2 was much different from H1, H3 was much different from H2 (and holy shit, FUCK H3 aiming, seriously). H5 is different again, and yes, it's frustrating if you got used to the previous feel. But there are very obviously some people who are good at it, and some people who aren't.  You eventually get over it. Huke is DEFINITELY over it. He eats other pros for breakfast on a near per-life basis. The same shit happened in H3. Some people didn't transition as well, but for some reason Cloud just understood that shit. The existence of these guys serves as living proof that it is possible to be nasty at aiming in this game. What more do you want?

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I think Halo 5's mechanics would be acceptable if there was no sprint, no spartan charge and a longer cooldown on thrust or forcing people to be a certain height in the air before thrusting or something (so they can't just use it to escape around corners; it'd be more of a double jump ability to get across gaps or to thrust back after jumping out to peek). GP needs some adjustments as well.

 

These 8 shot pistol duels were all happening within RRR, between pros? I haven't seen too many like that while watching pro matches tbh.

 

You pick a random series that's happening tonight and sure I'll look it over. Not guaranteeing I'll be home when it's on but there's replays right?

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So you're saying that there's no aiming skill gap in Halo 5, unless you're measuring the actual empirical skill gap. But since aiming is hard for the wrong reasons, you don't like it. You basically couldn't find a more perfect example of "It's only skill if I can do it" thinking.

 

Dude, I'm with you - the transition to the H5 aimer feel is strange. But aiming has felt different in almost every title transition. H2 was much different from H1, H3 was much different from H2 (and holy shit, FUCK H3 aiming, seriously). H5 is different again, and yes, it's frustrating if you got used to the previous feel. But there are very obviously some people who are good at it, and some people who aren't.  You eventually get over it. Huke is DEFINITELY over it. He eats other pros for breakfast on a near per-life basis. The same shit happened in H3. Some people didn't transition as well, but for some reason Cloud just understood that shit. The existence of these guys serves as living proof that it is possible to be nasty at aiming in this game. What more do you want?

 

H1-2, 4, Reach all had similar aiming, and 3 is bad but tolerable.

 

5 is the first game I've seen in the series where literally like half the community bitches about it. And plus server side issues fuck with it somehow. It's not completely understood. So yeah I'd say that lowers the skillgap when your aiming is literally changing match to match. Pros are pros, they put in an ungodly amount of hours into the game and I guess they just get used to it. Most people aren't spending literally 10 hours a day on Halo 5 though, hell even if they game 10 hours a day they are probably playing a LOT of other shooters (not just Halo) and it's completely unreasonable to tell them to suck it up and get used to how shitty Halo 5's aiming is. When you play Halo 5 for a few days it's not as bad but if you hop on other games and come back to it it's fucking hell to deal with. I LAN CE a lot and it's just horrid to switch over. I don't feel nearly as helpless as when I play Halo 3 and I only played Halo 3 for like 3 months when it came out and now occasionally on MCC lol.

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I think Halo 5's mechanics would be acceptable if there was no sprint, no spartan charge and a longer cooldown on thrust or forcing people to be a certain height in the air before thrusting or something (so they can't just use it to escape around corners; it'd be more of a double jump ability to get across gaps or to thrust back after jumping out to peek). GP needs some adjustments as well.

 

These 8 shot pistol duels were all happening within RRR, between pros? I haven't seen too many like that while watching pro matches tbh.

 

You pick a random series that's happening tonight and sure I'll look it over. Not guaranteeing I'll be home when it's on but there's replays right?

 

Cool, and yeah you can always watch the rebroadcast on twitch.tv/halo. I'll try to pick 1 or 2 before they start to remain unbiased. 

 

If you started with a blank slate, I can imagine some pretty badass movement systems that take inspiration from all Halos. Imagine something like this:

a. You have 3 thrusts that can be fired in rapid succession, with no cooldown. They move you equally fast as H5 thruster, but don't take you quite as far.

b. Stabilize does not require you to be zoomed in, it's just something you can activate to hang in the air for up to 3 seconds

c. Stabilize and thrust can interrupt each other, so you could do half a thrust, stop quickly by stabilizing, then fire another thrust in the same direction, and finally a third in the opposite direction, giving you major juking potential

c. No ground pound or spartan charge

d. Very fast movement speed, with velocity control rather than acceleration control so that there's no sluggishness in the strafing.

e. You could trigger a slide in the same way that you currently engage sprint, so you need to be walking forwardish at top speed.

f. When you are sliding you are almost frictionless, so by composing slides, thrusts and jumps you could launch off of sloped surfaces or maintain high speeds with little degradation. (This is in contrast to losing all your speed as soon as you come into contact with the ground, which is how it usually works)

G. NO MELEE LUNGE. Return to H1 style punches, because fuck the lunge.

 

I would live for that shit.

 

 

 

EDIT:  Ugh, I keep forgetting how trash spectator mode is. It's kind of hard to appraise the aiming mechanics when the shots aren't actually aligned with the player. I'm gonna watch games 2 and 3 in CLG vs LG and just look for movement related stuff, but it will probably be better to wait for a scrim.

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Cool, and yeah you can always watch the rebroadcast on twitch.tv/halo. I'll try to pick 1 or 2 before they start to remain unbiased. 

 

If you started with a blank slate, I can imagine some pretty badass movement systems that take inspiration from all Halos. Imagine something like this:

a. You have 3 thrusts that can be fired in rapid succession, with no cooldown. They move you equally fast as H5 thruster, but don't take you quite as far.

b. Stabilize does not require you to be zoomed in, it's just something you can activate to hang in the air for up to 3 seconds

c. Stabilize and thrust can interrupt each other, so you could do half a thrust, stop quickly by stabilizing, then fire another thrust in the same direction, and finally a third in the opposite direction, giving you major juking potential

c. No ground pound or spartan charge

d. Very fast movement speed, with velocity control rather than acceleration control so that there's no sluggishness in the strafing.

e. You could trigger a slide in the same way that you currently engage sprint, so you need to be walking forwardish at top speed.

f. When you are sliding you are almost frictionless, so by composing slides, thrusts and jumps you could launch off of sloped surfaces or maintain high speeds with little degradation. (This is in contrast to losing all your speed as soon as you come into contact with the ground, which is how it usually works)

G. NO MELEE LUNGE. Return to H1 style punches, because fuck the lunge.

 

I would live for that shit.

 

 

 

EDIT:  Ugh, I keep forgetting how trash spectator mode is. It's kind of hard to appraise the aiming mechanics when the shots aren't actually aligned with the player. I'm gonna watch games 2 and 3 in CLG vs LG and just look for movement related stuff, but it will probably be better to wait for a scrim.

While movement options are great i think i'd rather have more subtle movement, one that works off (what used to be) the amazing halo physics system rather than them being mapped to a button press. Stringing them together can bring a technical element, though there are ways to introduce more movement tech without having to sacrifice actions or over-emphasizing its impact on map flow and movement.

 

what i'm trying to generalize here is that i'd rather see UT 99 movement or quake 3 than something a little more over the top like tribes. For me it's the significance of movement tech that i don't enjoy about h5, i'm uncertain if that's why others dislike it though.

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So, I'm watching the game, and i had an idea (probably read it here).

What if the radar didn't show anything below full sprint speed. You would be able to make slick moves in close quarters, but you wouldn't be able to make high speed movements across the map without the other team becoming aware of it. it's kind of a nerf to sprint in a sense, i guess.

 

Edit: Please turn outlines on. I want to see what moves these teams are making, and it's a high level view of Halo gameplay.

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So, I'm watching the game, and i had an idea (probably read it here).

 

What if the radar didn't show anything below full sprint speed. You would be able to make slick moves in close quarters, but you wouldn't be able to make high speed movements across the map without the other team becoming aware of it. it's kind of a nerf to sprint in a sense, i guess.

 

Edit: Please turn outlines on. I want to see what moves these teams are making, and it's a high level view of Halo gameplay.

100% agree. This would mean Sprint would get nerfed while walking to flank would be useful, the perfect balance.

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i could easily tell the difference between no radar. also damn the awareness of the pros is a little rusty. A little too reliant on that minimap perhaps.

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