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Teapot

Esports Arena: Halo CE, Shadowrun, TF2 Tournament 1/21-1/22

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Let me expand on my opinion. I am a fan of most of the new maps. They're a lot of fun and incredibly refreshing to play on, but I can't say I've played anything than downrush more than a handful of times and it would be tough for me to say objectively why a map would be good or bad from a competitive standpoint without me playing on it.

 

Regardless, we have a few things to consider here. The biggest being that this is a multi-gaming tournament, and it sounds like we are hoping and encouraging others to sign up for multiple games. There's a handful of Team Fortress 2 guys who have responded on their forums looking forward to playing Halo CE and are excited to see why I consider the game to be deep. It's likely that a couple of teams sign up that came to play other games. Most likely, they have never heard of NHE or that new maps exist. So on top of the fact that certain groups play the new maps more than others, there are people coming that have no idea they exist. I mean Downrush is pretty straightforward but I still wouldn't force it in and would leave it at a veto system.

 

As Devilman said, Decidia isn't even on NHE, but according to NTG Free it should be up by December. How do they get these maps ready for NHE? They have to rebuild them completely right? I'd imagine that it needs to be tested a bit, but I'm completely clueless with this process. I think the Beach LAN is a better place to enforce the new maps in a tournament setting. I think adding Downrush as a veto map for this tournament might be the best option, similar to BL5.

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Let me expand on my opinion. I am a fan of most of the new maps. They're a lot of fun and incredibly refreshing to play on, but I can't say I've played anything than downrush more than a handful of times and it would be tough for me to say objectively why a map would be good or bad from a competitive standpoint without me playing on it.

 

Regardless, we have a few things to consider here. The biggest being that this is a multi-gaming tournament, and it sounds like we are hoping and encouraging others to sign up for multiple games. There's a handful of Team Fortress 2 guys who have responded on their forums looking forward to playing Halo CE and are excited to see why I consider the game to be deep. It's likely that a couple of teams sign up that came to play other games. Most likely, they have never heard of NHE or that new maps exist. So on top of the fact that certain groups play the new maps more than others, there are people coming that have no idea they exist. I mean Downrush is pretty straightforward but I still wouldn't force it in and would leave it at a veto system.

 

As Devilman said, Decidia isn't even on NHE, but according to NTG Free it should be up by December. How do they get these maps ready for NHE? They have to rebuild them completely right? I'd imagine that it needs to be tested a bit, but I'm completely clueless with this process. I think the Beach LAN is a better place to enforce the new maps in a tournament setting. I think adding Downrush as a veto map for this tournament might be the best option, similar to BL5.

Agreed. Downrush should be played if both teams agree.

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Don't talk like you didn't just refuse to play the new maps 95% of the time when we LANed and I tried to get us to play the new maps. Lol.

What would lanning the new maps once or twice a year for a few hours do? I definitely don't lan them enough to build up consistent knowledge and learn things without forgetting. I just started Halo 1 about 9 or 10 months ago, and I learned all the original maps, spawn points, nades, etc in that time. I know what it takes to learn new maps.

 

I still haven't got used to the old maps on OG compared to MCC. Why would I even want to try new maps that I know I won't play that much compared to maps I know everyone plays.

 

I have 8 hours to lan. I can spend it on old maps strategically spawning my teammate, setting up for power items, nading weapons/power ups, spawn killing, etc. Or I can spend it running around like a chicken with my head cut off on new maps, then forget it all over the next 5 or 6 months before I try it again.

 

 

MLG didn't seem to have a problem with it when they included Sanctuary, Warlock, Heretic, etc.

Yeah, over xbox live where you can consistently practice them? Very few people lan more than twice a year. If the new maps were on Xbox live in MCC, then I could actually play them frequently enough to learn them.

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@@Teapot

 

 

@@Phade 

 

 

 

So any chance we can get some Halo Online installed on the PCs maybe get some 4v4s going on with that? A few mods with a mod manager can basically make it be H3.

 

I would love to see a Halo Online station. The game does support LAN and is free to install.

 

It would a nice statement to show Halo can be on PC.

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I asked 2ge on stream and he said he knows of the tourney and would like.to go but doesn't know his schedule for Jan yet. Said he hasn't.touched shadow run in forever but would be down for h1

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@@Teapot

 

 

@@Phade 

 

 

 

So any chance we can get some Halo Online installed on the PCs maybe get some 4v4s going on with that? A few mods with a mod manager can basically make it be H3.

 

I would love to see a Halo Online station. The game does support LAN and is free to install.

 

It would a nice statement to show Halo can be on PC.

 

Maybe, but more than likely the space/equipment to make that happen won't be available.

I expect pretty much every PC we have will be used for the TF2 tournament. I'll keep the idea in mind though.

 

Feel free to @ me in this thread people. I'll be lurking and listening in general, but an @ will certainly get my attention and I'll do my best to respond. I'm thankful we have a ton of time left until the event to finalize the details.

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What would lanning the new maps once or twice a year for a few hours do? I definitely don't lan them enough to build up consistent knowledge and learn things without forgetting. I just started Halo 1 about 9 or 10 months ago, and I learned all the original maps, spawn points, nades, etc in that time. I know what it takes to learn new maps.

 

I still haven't got used to the old maps on OG compared to MCC. Why would I even want to try new maps that I know I won't play that much compared to maps I know everyone plays.

 

I have 8 hours to lan. I can spend it on old maps strategically spawning my teammate, setting up for power items, nading weapons/power ups, spawn killing, etc. Or I can spend it running around like a chicken with my head cut off on new maps, then forget it all over the next 5 or 6 months before I try it again.

 

 

Yeah, over xbox live where you can consistently practice them? Very few people lan more than twice a year. If the new maps were on Xbox live in MCC, then I could actually play them frequently enough to learn them.

 

If it was made common knowledge that new maps would be played in all tournaments from here on out, people would play them and learn them, just like you learned the original maps.  

 

Why are reps on newer maps inherently worthless but reps on old maps are super valuable?  Unless you're just straight up not trying when you play a new map, that experience is going to be just as valuable. Probably more valuable, in fact, because you'd be learning more per minute than you would on old maps.

 

Yes, you wouldn't be able to use MCC to practice, but if you're solely using MCC to practice for a tournament on OG boxes, you have bigger problems.

 

I just get frustrated with this issue because I tried these maps all the way back in 2012. I've known they were tournament caliber maps for 4 years, and I've watched them be continuously ignored for 4 years. It drives me nuts that the H1 community is sitting on this gold mine of content and just willfully ignoring it because they're stubborn.  It wouldn't even be a damn issue today if people would have started playing them when they came out.  I mean Christ, H1 Final came out how long ago? So people went through all the effort to get final, which includes the new maps, and then just didn't play them when they're right there available in front of their face, for years on end.  And then it's this big deal when people want to have the map in rotation in a tournament, like there wasn't enough notice. Like 4 years isn't long enough to learn a map. It's frustrating to me. Sorry.

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I understand where you're coming from, but 4 years to learn a map when you don't have a local LAN scene is absolutely nothing. I've maybe played halo 20-25 times in that span.  Back when xbc was jumping and I lived with other halo players, I was able to put thousands of hours into the original maps. I've reached the point in my halo "career" that playing a less evolved meta feels like a watered down experience. I've had fun on Downrush, don't get me wrong... but up to this point it's mostly felt like everyone is cruising around and trying to out shoot one another. It's checkers vs chess, and I'd just rather be playing chess.

 

That's no fault of the maps or anyone in particular, it's just circumstance. My opportunity to play halo in 2016 is just vastly different than it was in 2005. The opportunity cost of really focusing on perfecting my DECIDIA game is that I could be having more fun playing what I already know at a much higher level. I think the other guys spending hundreds on plane tickets and taking time off of work might feel the same way. That's why the new maps are getting "ignored".

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Maybe, but more than likely the space/equipment to make that happen won't be available.

I expect pretty much every PC we have will be used for the TF2 tournament. I'll keep the idea in mind though.

 

Feel free to @ me in this thread people. I'll be lurking and listening in general, but an @ will certainly get my attention and I'll do my best to respond. I'm thankful we have a ton of time left until the event to finalize the details.

 

Thanks for replying! And keeping it in mind.

 

Im a big supporter of Halo on the PC so seeing some LAN event host some of the PC Halo games would be awesome.

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Xlink Kai works great. If new maps were going to be played in a tourney, people could load that up and practice them on there.

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I understand where you're coming from, but 4 years to learn a map when you don't have a local LAN scene is absolutely nothing. I've maybe played halo 20-25 times in that span.  Back when xbc was jumping and I lived with other halo players, I was able to put thousands of hours into the original maps. I've reached the point in my halo "career" that playing a less evolved meta feels like a watered down experience. I've had fun on Downrush, don't get me wrong... but up to this point it's mostly felt like everyone is cruising around and trying to out shoot one another. It's checkers vs chess, and I'd just rather be playing chess.

 

That's no fault of the maps or anyone in particular, it's just circumstance. My opportunity to play halo in 2016 is just vastly different than it was in 2005. The opportunity cost of really focusing on perfecting my DECIDIA game is that I could be having more fun playing what I already know at a much higher level. I think the other guys spending hundreds on plane tickets and taking time off of work might feel the same way. That's why the new maps are getting "ignored".

 

It won't be checkers forever though. At the talent level you guys play at, it won't take that long for the map's meta to evolve. Gameplay would improve at an insane rate, and its fun. Maybe it's been too many years since you guys have been deeply familiar with all the maps, but learning something new about a map every time you play it is fun. It's like a knowledge arms race.  You talk about new maps like they'll be played like its the first time for a long time, and it just isn't true. Your 5th, 10th, and 20th games on them will all play vastly different, and on a much deeper level. It's just shortsighted not to look at it that way.

 

It's especially baffling to me because half the guys at BL5 have a map that they fucking hate anyways, be it RR, Creek or Dere. Hell, some guys even hate Dammy because it's slow, or HH bc its too random, etc. And here's this list of perfectly good maps that you could sub in for any of these, if you would just give them a try.  You can quote me on this: If people made a good faith effort to learn Imminent, they would want it in every tournament series. It's that good, and nobody knows it.

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Apparently I don't know how to use the @ thing or edit posts on a phone.

 

He'll get the notification. On mobile tagging people doesn't display their name in the thread but if you quote the post it will pop up. I believe thats the same guy who posted twice, Almighty Shade.

 

@@almightyshade do you think you can make it? I know you are a h1 player, any interest in playing Shadowrun too?

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Hey @@Freecube I'd be down to play in the Halo CE 2v2 tourney and my gamertag is Almighty Shade and @@Teapot, I'd be interested in playing Shadowrun. I've never played it, so it would be something new-ish to play. Sorry about posting twice. For some reason when creating an account, it cut my name in half. So, I had to fix that lol. But yeah, I should be able to make it. Once all the details are set in stone, I can go ahead and get everything organized and planned out. I was already planning a trip out to Cali mid January anyway.

As for the new maps, I actually have Decidia on my NHE. I do like Downrush and Imminent a lot, but Imminent doesn't seem like a good map for competitive gameplay.

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Assuming some of these maps are well suited for competitive play.... ecouraging an evolving meta is a good thing for a competitive game, a 'knowledge arms race' is a good way to look at it. And so the 'but I have more fun on maps I know' argument would work if we weren't a competitive community. But we are. And it's one of the basic axioms of a place like this that the level of fun is directly related to the level of competitiveness. Wanting to limit competitiveness for the sake of 'fun' is what Halo developers have been doing for years and what the casual community thinks they want. It's not what we want. Sure it pushes folk outside their comfort zone and when you're playing for real money 'winning' normally takes precedent over pure competitiveness (see h5 pros), but I'd of thought the H1 community, out of all of us, would be most willing to push themselves out of their comfort zones for the sake of an evolving meta and thus a more competitive experience. 

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but Imminent doesn't seem like a good map for competitive gameplay.

I'm curious to know why you feel that way.

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Hey @@Freecube I'd be down to play in the Halo CE 2v2 tourney and my gamertag is Almighty Shade and @@Teapot, I'd be interested in playing Shadowrun. I've never played it, so it would be something new-ish to play. Sorry about posting twice. For some reason when creating an account, it cut my name in half. So, I had to fix that lol. But yeah, I should be able to make it. Once all the details are set in stone, I can go ahead and get everything organized and planned out. I was already planning a trip out to Cali mid January anyway.

 

As for the new maps, I actually have Decidia on my NHE. I do like Downrush and Imminent a lot, but Imminent doesn't seem like a good map for competitive gameplay.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dm562KYb7YQ

 

Perhaps this will change your mind

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@@almightyshade Imminent is great for competitive play.  The meta game on it has the potential to be very deep.  But I will be the first to admit that the map is not fun if everyone playing isn't familiar with it (which could be argued for any map).  I recommend watching Missingno's detailed commentary video to get a good idea of the possibilities.

 

 

lol killmachine, you beat me to it.

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@@almightyshade Imminent is great for competitive play. The meta game on it has the potential to be very deep. But I will be the first to admit that the map is not fun if everyone playing isn't familiar with it (which could be argued for any map). I recommend watching Missingno's detailed commentary video to get a good idea of the possibilities.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6C2BiUoukE

 

lol killmachine, you beat me to it.

Great minds think alike

 

Can't wait to see it on NHE :)

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