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CorporalWings0

Should sprint be included in Halo moving forward?

  

238 members have voted

  1. 1. Keep or remove sprint

    • Remove sprint
      199
    • Keep sprint
      39


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Yeah, italicized was just joking about some of the actual shit I've seen on Waypoint.

 

Interesting thing about Overwatch:

Lucio has a speed boost mechanic and is one of the most played heroes in competitive play.

Soldier 76 has more generic sprinting and is one of the least played heroes in competitive play (also in quickplay in my experience)

Obviously not just for those reasons alone, but an interesting fact regardless.

To go even further, McCree is the obvious better choice for a DPS Hero over Soldier 76 and he has a powerful skill cannon pistol. Hmm.... 

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Sprint at its best, is just redundant. At its worst it breaks maps and can really downgrade gun play in Halo. 

 

Everyone that has ever really thought about the topic pretty much comes to the same conclusion, sprint is bad and should be removed. What really matters though is whether or not its inclusion matters from 343i/Microsoft's POV. If it makes them money, then it'll stay, if it hurts them, they'll remove it. The thing is with sprint its just a typical mechanic, and considering it wasn't in Halo originally, that its likely that the inclusion of sprint has just hurt the Halo series overall by alienating tons of veteran players and people who like games that play "different" than others. The funny thing is that if they were to remove sprint now, I'm sure there would be a backlash against it, seeing as how the last 3 halo titles have had sprint in them. So 343i kind of set themselves up for failure with that one. Either they please the old school fans by removing it, or they please them newer fans by keeping. There is no happy in between.

 

The rift it caused within the halo community alone speaks to how poorly its inclusion has been for Halo.

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Yeah, italicized was just joking about some of the actual shit I've seen on Waypoint.

 

Interesting thing about Overwatch:

Lucio has a speed boost mechanic and is one of the most played heroes in competitive play.

Soldier 76 has more generic sprinting and is one of the least played heroes in competitive play (also in quickplay in my experience)

Obviously not just for those reasons alone, but an interesting fact regardless.

 

You make a game one way, people will eventually adapt it to it even if its objectively worse and then defend it irrationally. A series many people might know called RS(Rainbow Six,RS:Rogue Spear,and  RS3:Raven shield specifically) used to be a very tactical and skill-based FPS that still challenges any tactical FPS for game-play quality and skill-based team oriented play(clans were huge on the PC version and even Xbox later). One bullet kill, no regen health, every rifle has significant recoil, heavy planning involved in MP and SP, no sprint, not heavily focused on ADS, not TOO cover-based like later versions became with the cover mechanics, clean sight-lines on maps,ect..)but then with later installments the gameplay basically went to complete shit(which can be blamed on consoles to a degree) and became a cross between Gears of War cover mechanics and CoD gunplay mechanically. The clan community died, the game completely lost any identity it once held, and a new community played the newer installments but the game was never the same and never recovered from trying to change its identity as a hardcore tactical FPS into something it wasn't. Sound familiar?

 

RS veterans WOULD NOT play the new versions(RS: Vegas) they hated that game more than most hate H4 here, calling them bastardized console ports/Call of duty clones among other things but there is people who play the new RS games today(albeit WAY less people because the franchise/core community was basically destroyed) who will defend the vastly inferior and bastardization of a once great competitive tactical FPS franchise. As we all can see, the same applies to Halo and a number of other FPS today that have no real identity left yet fanboys will still defend the bastardization of them irrationally. Would this of ever happened in the so called "golden age of FPS" where players actually cared about game-play quality/skill and communities and games had real unique identities and lasted for more than 3 months? No, but alas the age of the casual mainstream gamer had dawned, and it rained fiery hell upon the strong tight-knit fps communities at the time and our great FPS genre leaving only a few brave souls to carry on the spirit and traditions from the golden age. Some say the end of the golden age coinciding with the meteoric rise of WoW was no mere coincidence, as many hardcore FPS fans left the genre and seeked refuge to create anew a community they could call their own once again.

 

We are left fighting a battle that in reality cant really be won, only small victories obtained by supporting the devs who truly support us and trying to guide our communities onto the right path.  We cant save them all though, and all you can do sometimes is just accept the game has been destroyed and move on as others in those franchises have if the dev repeatedly does not listen contrary to all logic and what is actually good for the game. Let them have their "ghost" communities(because there is no real community left just casuals that move on after a month or so), let them have their soul-less husk of a game with an even more heartless community with the FPS equivalent of Justin Beiber fans. Just remember you're dealing with the real ones, we dont want you're fake ass shit anyways. The quality FPS still sustain the strong heart-beat that only hardcore FPS fans can provide and ultimately withstand the test of time. Always have, and always will. While nobody who really cares will remotely remember your attempt at a sellout 10 years from now.

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85% of the voters may want sprint removed, but that 85% can be broken up into segments of people who OG movement speed, people who want sprint-movement speed, people who want movement speed that ramps up over time and fulfills the same purpose, people who want a speed boost as an ability, etc.

 

They may agree on one aspect, but they still want very different things.

Bullshit. People want OG/MLG movement speed. People want real Halo back with no sprint in any form.

 

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It's very much true. The only reason why it's not obvious is because this particular poll is binary.

 

85% of the voters may want sprint removed, but that 85% can be broken up into segments of people who OG movement speed, people who want sprint-movement speed, people who want movement speed that ramps up over time and fulfills the same purpose, people who want a speed boost as an ability, etc.

 

They may agree on one aspect, but they still want very different things.

Ok

 

That's really not that relevant. The fact of the matter is that the VAST majority of people who have a deep, technical understanding of Halo's gameplay and mechanics come to the same conclusion about the current sprint mechanic. Which is that it doesn't work well.

 

What sprint should be replaced with is an entirely different discussion.

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There may have been a time where I would have said 'yes' or would otherwise be completely indifferent. 

 

But the game literally doesn't play correctly when finding fights is faster than being in them. Half the time you get into an engagement in Halo 4 or 5 you have to worry about getting 2v1'ed before it's over because traffic is literally moving faster around you and that overpowers teamshot immensely.

 

Apparently it also encourages really awful spawn systems, because the majority of maps in Halo 5 just spawn the other team behind you if you push them back to spawn. There's no map control. I'm at wit's end with what it does to Halo.

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@everyone who posted

 

I know this has been done to death, but can we make a full list of all the effects sprint has on the game? I can update the OP and put everything there for people who want to link the thread to Waypoint or r/halo showing there is a community who does not want sprint, or even for 343i to see.

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I've been around and playing since H:CE, and started watching MLG in Halo 2. I voted to keep sprint. Times are changing, and as much as us OG people would love to have sprint removed, the way the younger generation is these days would result in the game becoming even less popular IMO. It would feel "clunky" and "slow" to the younger generation that is used to more fast paced, quick moving games. 

 

So I voted to keep sprint not because I like it more, but because I think it's necessary for Halo to get larger AT THIS TIME IN IT'S LIFE.

lmao, if you think catering to demographics is necessary for Halo to move forward, then you are the problem

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Here's a batshit idea. In test groups, stop measuring for comfort and start measuring for total volume of wall indentation due to controllers. How do you increase that volume?

 

Here's how. Make speed higher than ever. That's it. Then tell me about how sprint and extra abilities are "expected".

 
"[Modern shooters,] they're really slow. Like Gears is crazy slow 'cause you're just a bullet sponge. They've altered the FPS paradigm to something I'm not even interested in playing. I don't want to be a bullet shield; I want to be skillful, nimble, and fast."- John Romero
 
Good choice of quote, @@Hitman.
 
 
 

 

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Here's a batshit idea. In test groups, stop measuring for comfort and start measuring for total volume of wall indentation due to controllers. How do you increase that volume?

 

Here's how. Make speed higher than ever. That's it. Then tell me about how sprint and extra abilities are "expected".

 
"[Modern shooters,] they're really slow. Like Gears is crazy slow 'cause you're just a bullet sponge. They've altered the FPS paradigm to something I'm not even interested in playing. I don't want to be a bullet shield; I want to be skillful, nimble, and fast."- John Romero
 
Good choice of quote, @@Hitman.
 

 

John Romero is a god.

 

H5: Evolved movement or a bit slower with an FOV that isn't like wearing blinders would be beautiful. Plus aerial control, and aiming that doesn't feel like trash.

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I just don't understand why they promised to make Sprint more risk than reward with the delayed health but added a mechanic like Spartan Charge which gives more reward than risk. More people connect with one than whiff and it is almost a 5 foot melee kill or takes away shields. As we have seen, they have not captured the CoD fanbase and on Xbox itself, they are barely maintaining the 5th most played shooter position. Who cares if the others are multiplatform. It means more people would rather play another shooter than Halo on an Xbox console and that should be extremely worrying.

 

Increase base movement speed a little bit more and with the size of your maps, sprint not needed at all.

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Here's a batshit idea. In test groups, stop measuring for comfort and start measuring for total volume of wall indentation due to controllers. How do you increase that volume?

 

Here's how. Make speed higher than ever. That's it. Then tell me about how sprint and extra abilities are "expected".

 
"[Modern shooters,] they're really slow. Like Gears is crazy slow 'cause you're just a bullet sponge. They've altered the FPS paradigm to something I'm not even interested in playing. I don't want to be a bullet shield; I want to be skillful, nimble, and fast."- John Romero
 
Good choice of quote, @@Hitman.
 
 
 

 

 

In Romero, we trust. Here is another great Romero quote that is very relatable to this situation at hand.Also read the book "Masters of Doom" if you haven't already, its a must read for any gaming fan and very well written.

john-romeros-quotes-1.jpg

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I actually like the movement a fair amount in this game, but I would really love to have it closer to classic Halo. I don't hate sprint as much as everyone else, and to a certain extent it almost feels like a necessary evil in today's gaming climate, but I do miss me some classic Halo action. I wonder how removing sprint but keeping thrust/clamber would work

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I wonder how removing sprint but keeping thrust/clamber would work

Add "in Halo 2" to the end of your sentence and you'll have your answer.

 

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No, I'm not giving you the answer. You should know.

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I would imagine really well.

It'd be fun to try. I really like the movement options of the game so I'd hate to see them ALL go, but sprint just seems a bit superfluous. 

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It'd be fun to try. I really like the movement options of the game so I'd hate to see them ALL go, but sprint just seems a bit superfluous. 

Ya, sprint is the only movement mechanic I don't like in H5.

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Add "in Halo 2" to the end of your sentence and you'll have your answer.

 

...

 

 

No, I'm not giving you the answer. You should know.

Yeah, no need to be a dick about it, it was just a thought/suggestion. I don't even think it would play THAT bad. For all I know, it would be AWFUL, but no one knows until it's tried. Thruster has its pros and cons, same with clamber.

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I actually like the movement a fair amount in this game, but I would really love to have it closer to classic Halo. I don't hate sprint as much as everyone else, and to a certain extent it almost feels like a necessary evil in today's gaming climate, but I do miss me some classic Halo action. I wonder how removing sprint but keeping thrust/clamber would work

Believe me, sprint and other game breaking gimmicks/abilities are not necessary at all. There is zero benefit to having sprint, ground pound, Spartan charge, thruster, and clamber in Halo. I see posts like "if only we could get rid of <insert gimmick(s)>, then having <insert other gimmick(s)> wouldn't be so bad". My question is, why should we settle for any game breaking gimmicks/abilities at all?! The most popular Halo games: CE, H2, and H3 had no armor/Spartan abilities. Reach started the downfall with players having one armor ability each. Halo 4 was Reach on steroids and the franchise took a steep nosedive in popularity. Halo 5 replaced armor abilities with all new game breaking gimmicks and the game is even less popular than Halo 4. Enough is enough. It's either original formula with no game breaking gimmicks or bust.

 

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Believe me, sprint and other game breaking gimmicks/abilities are not necessary at all. There is zero benefit to having sprint, ground pound, Spartan charge, thruster, and clamber in Halo. I see posts like "if only we could get rid of <insert gimmick(s)>, then having <insert other gimmick(s)> wouldn't be so bad". My question is, why should we settle for any game breaking gimmicks/abilities at all?! The most popular Halo games: CE, H2, and H3 had no armor/Spartan abilities. Reach started the downfall with players having one armor ability each. Halo 4 was Reach on steroids and the franchise took a steep nosedive in popularity. Halo 5 replaced armor abilities with all new game breaking gimmicks and the game is even less popular than Halo 4. Enough is enough. It's either original formula with no game breaking gimmicks or bust.

 

I know this is EVERYONE'S reason for the downfall of Halo, but to a certain extent you have to look at the trends in gaming. Everyone wants to be able to move around like they're god damn Superman. Just look what's happened to CoD. So to a certain extent I feel that comparing the popularities of the various games in the series to their abilities is a bit of a false connection. Reach and 4 were bad for their own reasons. I'd say it's tough to know how a game with limited movement options would do in todays market where every game has a thruster pack, a grappling hook, a jet pack, etc. I PERSONALLY like thruster. I know that it sometimes lets people get away with bad plays, but at the same time, I feel like it's added an extra bit of skill to a gunfight, and it has opened up the kind of movement and jumps you can pull off (just look at Frosty). So thruster to me feels like a bit less of a gimmick than anything added in 4 or Reach (and Halo 3's equipment for that matter), but I wouldn't shed a single tear over the loss of sprint, spartan charge, or ground pound.

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I know this is EVERYONE'S reason for the downfall of Halo, but to a certain extent you have to look at the trends in gaming. Everyone wants to be able to move around like they're god damn Superman. Just look what's happened to CoD. So to a certain extent I feel that comparing the popularities of the various games in the series to their abilities is a bit of a false connection. Reach and 4 were bad for their own reasons. I'd say it's tough to know how a game with limited movement options would do in todays market where every game has a thruster pack, a grappling hook, a jet pack, etc. I PERSONALLY like thruster. I know that it sometimes lets people get away with bad plays, but at the same time, I feel like it's added an extra bit of skill to a gunfight, and it has opened up the kind of movement and jumps you can pull off (just look at Frosty). So thruster to me feels like a bit less of a gimmick than anything added in 4 or Reach (and Halo 3's equipment for that matter), but I wouldn't shed a single tear over the loss of sprint, spartan charge, or ground pound.

If everyone wants to move around like they're superman, how come many millions have left Halo? We know what works and what doesn't work in Halo. The market has clearly rejected gimmick filled Halo's and will continue to do so. Instead of focusing on game breaking gimmicks, 343 should instead focus on their technical quality and depth. A gimmick filled Halo 6 will be even less popular than Halo 5. There is nothing to lose by going back to the original formula. The only way that would fail is if the technical quality is poor. That is something that has plagued every 343-made Halo game. Game breaking gimmicks combined with poor technical quality = huge loss in popularity for Halo.

 

Halo's original formula should have never been fucked with. It should have been like Madden football, with refinement to graphics, physics, and depth. 

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Social should be an incubator for all new developments and flashiness.

 

Would anyone here disagree with me when I say that Halo 5 is basically the best social experience Halo has ever had? I'm serious. Cut out Halo 3's Social Matchmaking and replace it with Halo 5 in its entirety, and that is absolutely an improvement. To make an investing analogy, can Ranked not be the classic experience, or the "safety bucket" to an ever-evolving Social's "risk bucket"?

 

No, I'll go further than this. If you make Social the incubator for new ideas, the rate at which new ideas are added increases rapidly, for obvious reasons. If one of those new features doesn't work, it won't be nearly as much of an image sacrifice on 343's part. And if one of those many new features works well in competitive, they can try it out in Ranked.

 

This is the most stable model for Halo. Seriously, problem solved. No more sprint-sized problems could come up in the series if this was the approach.

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If everyone wants to move around like they're superman, how come many millions have left Halo? We know what works and what doesn't work in Halo. The market has clearly rejected gimmick filled Halo's and will continue to do so. Instead of focusing on game breaking gimmicks, 343 should instead focus on their technical quality and depth. A gimmick filled Halo 6 will be even less popular than Halo 5. There is nothing to lose by going back to the original formula. The only way that would fail is if the technical quality is poor. That is something that has plagued every 343-made Halo game. Game breaking gimmicks combined with poor technical quality = huge loss in popularity for Halo.

 

Halo's original formula should have never been fucked with. It should have been like Madden football, with refinement to graphics, physics, and depth. 

Well, I'd argue that a lot of those people have come back to Halo. It's population retention seems to be a lot better than Reach or 4. But I would say that the vast majority left because of Reach, 4, and MCC and didn't bother to come back. I don't necessarily agree that Halo 6 with similar mechanics to 5 would result in more of a loss of players. I'm sure not everyone would agree, but it seems as though Halo 5 has been pretty successful with the general audience if not the competitive audience. I wouldn't say that technical quality has only been an issue with only 343 games. For me, it started as early as Halo 3. The shot registration was (in my opinion) so poor that it was infuriating. And then of course Reach had bloom, but that's a whole different rabbit hole. I've been around since 2, and personally I have less technical issues with 5 than I have since 2, but I know that not everyone shares that opinion. I do wonder if just minor technical improvements on the Halo 2 formula could work. I think that it would start to suffer just because that's frowned upon, including in Madden. I think the competitive community would be MORE than happy with it, but the general audience might get a little tired of that. All in all, I guess my point is that I don't find thrust to be a game breaking gimmick. The armor abilities were game breaking, and I wish them a horrible life in hell, but thrust just doesn't seem even close to the same category for me. I think that change can be good, but NOT change for change's sake like equipment and armor abilities were, but if something is purpose built and fits into the game well, I guess I don't see anything wrong with it.

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