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HCS Pro League Fall 2016 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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Ah, I thought you were just genuinely being a dick.

 

I'm sure it's been speculated before, but what exactly was the pro team's input in this game? I just don't see former top level pros suggesting or agreeing to a majority of the mechanics/maps/weapons.

 

PR move.

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Ah, I thought you were just genuinely being a dick.

 

I'm sure it's been speculated before, but what exactly was the pro team's input in this game? I just don't see former top level pros suggesting or agreeing to a majority of the mechanics/maps/weapons.

 

Pro team exists so that 343 can say they have a pro team.

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https://i.sli.mg/Zn1IlK.png

 

This isn't the first time I've seen that sentiment on the Halo sub reddit, I'm sure its shared elsewhere too (don't know by how many its shared by though) should it be a concern we're being used as a scapegoat of H5 (and 343s) shortcomings/failures? Like I can get why they think that way, its probably how it appears to them, I mean they're wrong but I can understand it. But it just really bugs me because I know better, and can see the bigger picture and more of the story. Idk if it should bug me though.

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jfc that's sad. I thought we were doing better..

 

 

Honestly it's a lot better than I thought it would be. If someone at 343 just took a look at these numbers it's pretty clear that the current set up hurts viewership. Online pro league with the worst spectator mode in esports is dropping fairly conssitenyl over the weeks. Now bigger events, that take place over multiple days (especially one's where big matches are just done on one day) tend to generate a lot more buzz and higher viewership.

 

I'm not saying that Pro League is bad or should be done away with, but the numbers don't lie and if we don't see massive (bolded for extra emphasis) changes to the myriad of issues with both H5 gameplay and esports,then Halo might fall deeper into obscurity. 

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im sure the pro team does valuable work

 

highly doubt they are getting paid to stare at a wall for 8 hours, game dev companies are not like that at all 

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Not saying that we dont' envy what the gears devs are doing, just that it's not yielding THAT much return in terms of viewership.

Thats really what i was going for. If we could have an organization like mlg running live events. They could even help test different settings as well. Gears will only benefit from mlg in the long run while hcs with esl has been in a steady decline

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im sure the pro does valuable work

 

highly doubt they are getting paid to stare at a wall for 8 hours, game dev companies are not like that at all 

 

No one said they stare at walls......?

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im sure the pro does valuable work

 

highly doubt they are getting paid to stare at a wall for 8 hours, game dev companies are not like that at all 

 

 

Yeah 343 is not like all game DEVs. They are highly fragmented.

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https://i.sli.mg/Zn1IlK.png

 

This isn't the first time I've seen that sentiment on the Halo sub reddit, I'm sure its shared elsewhere too (don't know by how many its shared by though) should it be a concern we're being used as a scapegoat of H5 (and 343s) shortcomings/failures? Like I can get why they think that way, its probably how it appears to them, I mean they're wrong but I can understand it. But it just really bugs me because I know better, and can see the bigger picture and more of the story. Idk if it should bug me though.

As someone who enjoys the pro scene but is an at best average player, I think the problem arises in the fact that for the pro scene, the details are the problem whereas for the "social" scene (for lack of a better word) the problem is more game types and modes to have fun (whether that's action sack, casual slayer, objective, etc.) You guys aren't happy with settings, radar, what have you. For me personally, I'm not a good enough player for that to matter. I'd be even worse without radar, no autos, etc. To me, having a social slayer where I just dick around and relax while playing for an hour would be really nice. But I understand the frustrations of the pro scene and would like to see the changes they want be implemented because presumably it would create a better viewing experience. From the outside though, someone who isn't interested in the pro scene doesn't care about that, and just sees 343s attempt to create competitive playlists out of the main game types (how BTB launch was ranked for instance).

 

I think there's just frustrations from both sides because 343 kinda split the bill and tried to go both ways, incorporating the pro scene and it's configuration into the main aspect of Arena

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Pro team exists so that 343 can say they have a pro team.

 

 

PR move.

 

 

No one said they stare at walls......?

arguably 

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I'm sure it's been speculated before, but what exactly was the pro team's input in this game? I just don't see former top level pros suggesting or agreeing to a majority of the mechanics/maps/weapons.

 

Many game development companies employ a front-facing PR strategy known as a United Front.  This means, that regardless of whether individuals within a company agree with decisions made by the company, any comments they make about it that may be visible to people outside the company must support whatever the company's internally agreed upon decisions have been, are, or will be.

 

Although employees may publicly endorse decisions, behind the curtains, they may be fighting bitterly to have those decisions reversed.

 

 

 

In a software company, Quality Assurance are often some of the bottom tier employees, both in terms of payscale and in terms of their weight on decisions.  It's unlikely Executives, Designers, or Producers will take input from them if it directly opposes their own notions and plans.

 

The 343 Pro Team is essentially a Quality Assurance team with proven high-level gameplay skill.

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Many game development companies employ a front-facing PR strategy known as a United Front.  This means, that regardless of whether individuals within a company agree with decisions made by the company, any comments they make about it that may be visible to people outside the company must support whatever the company's internally agreed upon decisions have been, are, or will be.

 

Although employees may publicly endorse decisions, behind the curtains, they may be fighting bitterly to have those decisions reversed.

I just know my boys are fighting the squirrely fight behind the scenes.

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my vision of what goes on with the pro team:

 

>343: "so is this thing we implemented terrible"

 

>proteam: "well its not better than what we had previously so I Th-

 

>343: "so what you're saying is its not terrible. K team, lets roll with it"

 

>proteam: "but..

 

 

 

It feels like the pro team is just a Pr move and a scapegoat. If anything sucks, pro team says its fine. If anyone questions anything, op! pro team loves the settings! That's why we got the pro team!

 

Now why in the world would I ever think this? Well comparing ghost's and neighbor's attitude pre MCC to post MCC as well as combing over what they said pre MCC to what we got, it really shows that they have absolutely no power over at 343 industries.

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Plus x games. 2 of those 3 were MLG. I do believe we make a difference

Who do we need to write to get you back with halo :(

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im sure the pro team does valuable work

 

highly doubt they are getting paid to stare at a wall for 8 hours, game dev companies are not like that at all 

 

I'm sure that they play-test the game and provide knowledgeable feedback on it, which is then promptly ignored if it in any way contradicts the current "creative vision." I'm not saying their work is not valuable. I'm saying that 343's results based on that work aren't. A developer effectively using a test team like that should not be putting out garbage like Molten, to name only one example.

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https://i.sli.mg/Zn1IlK.png

 

This isn't the first time I've seen that sentiment on the Halo sub reddit, I'm sure its shared elsewhere too (don't know by how many its shared by though) should it be a concern we're being used as a scapegoat of H5 (and 343s) shortcomings/failures? Like I can get why they think that way, its probably how it appears to them, I mean they're wrong but I can understand it. But it just really bugs me because I know better, and can see the bigger picture and more of the story. Idk if it should bug me though.

My thing is why not both? Let the 343 pros and competitive community create/curate a playlist while everyone else plays and creates fun and cool casual lists. I known343 wants more people in team arena, but dont shoehorn people into a mish mash of comp and casual that is team arena. Let the players have what they want and more people will be happy

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My thing is why not both? Let the 343 pros and competitive community create/curate a playlist while everyone else plays and creates fun and cool casual lists. I known343 wants more people in team arena, but dont shoehorn people into a mish mash of comp and casual that is team arena. Let the players have what they want and more people will be happy

Because there's not enough players?

 

Grifball and Action sack are already in the game permanently. Asking for more purely social and permanent playlists at this point is ridiculous.

 

Judging by the steadily declining server connections and Halo's top 15 at best standing on the XBL lists, there's not much in the way of players. If I had to take a guess, 343 is closer to removing some playlists at this point rather than adding in anymore.

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This is a huge tournament prize pool wise with great orgs at the top and it's their first. Having 12k viewers for this LAN tourney, which we get for the pro league, is not good in my opinion as well.

 

 

I agree, honestly I'm amazed that anyone could think 12k is good ... I wish the best for Clap/MLG and Gears but 12k for the first LAN tourney with big sponsor teams, just after the game's release, is basically = failure.  I think "great" would have been 35k-40k ... good would be 25k ... 12k is near-death.  (The first MCC invitational peaked at 48k, for reference.)

 

edit: just saw Clap's post ... fair enough, 20k (across all platforms) for a relatively small $25k invitational is almost at "good" levels, I agree.  the next few months will tell.

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I agree, honestly I'm amazed that anyone could think 12k is good ... I wish the best for Clap/MLG and Gears but 12k for the first LAN tourney with big sponsor teams, just after the game's release, is basically = failure.  I think "great" would have been 35k-40k ... good would be 25k ... 12k is near-death.  (The first MCC invitational peaked at 48k, for reference.)

Its been said before, but Gears is starting much lower than Halo did in regards to name recognition and eSports history.

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Its been said before, but Gears is starting much lower than Halo did in regards to name recognition and eSports history.

right, hence a much bigger risk in terms of failing to create a viable esport in 2017

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