Jump to content
CyReN

HCS Pro League Fall 2016 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

Recommended Posts

Jesus dude, relax lol. Calm down a tad. Will respond to each section with plugged in quotes in green.

 

 

What in the world... Are you kidding me? Are you telling me you've never been slightly touched by a grenade in this game? You know, the ones that don't take any shields away but yet, you see your shield regen timer decreasing? Those are the grenades I'm talking about. And when you get tapped by those grenades, yes, their hit marker goes off and they know you're there at that point. 

 

If you can honestly say that my post wasn't an actual argument, and yours was, I'm.. Shocked. I actually liked your splinter grenade suggestion that you posted. That was a good idea, hence why I didn't argue that. But to sit here and argue these points are just.. Absurd man.

 

c1qyMBs.gif

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

i agree but you would imagine removing grenade hit markers would be one of the easier tweaks

 

 

i think we should obviously focus on the big issues but we should also focus on the things that would the easiest to fix

 

 

-things 343 could change by tomorrow to make the game more competitive-

grenade hit markers

on map nade placements 

(no radar obv but lets start slow)

 

what else?

 

Reduction in sniper magnetism would be nice. 

  • Upvote (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

Reduction in sniper magnetism would be nice. 

Please. If you insist on having a strong magnetism level, at least make it match H2A's.

  • Upvote (+1) 1
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

I don't get why some people think we need to start with skill-less and powerful autos or that we need them on the map. For variety? If I have a perfect $40 steak dinner on my plate I don't need to throw a soggy McDonald's burger in the mix for variety's sake.

Share this post


Link to post

Hey guys, what's going....

 

 

fire_community.gif

  • Upvote (+1) 5

Share this post


Link to post

Please. If you insist on having a strong magnetism level, at least make it match H2A's.

EDIT: Ignore me my computer was having a stroke.

Share this post


Link to post

Except he was listing games with a singular game mode to demonstrate allowing a meta to evolve.

 

Because the meta doesn't evolve in the entire span of slight balance changes. /s. What divisions have you played in? Because anything Diamond or higher, the meta is so deep, you wouldn't even begin to understand it. Don't be obnoxious just to be obnoxious man. You're clearly arguing pointless semantics.. The meta in LoL constantly evolves because there are numerous combinations of teams that can be made, not to mention builds. Your post would make more sense if every character and every team were limited to one different type of play-style; which is not true in the slightest. The meta always evolves in LoL. You cannot sit here and argue this man haha.

 

To put it in a clearer example, in this entire year (since a year is such a short time in your eyes for some reason) are you saying the meta of H5 didn't evolve a single bit? Not a single thing has changed in which how players play the game since we've began? Yes, I know H5 has multiple game modes. I'm talking each individual game mode. Strongholds, CTF, etc. Players adapt around strategies all the time in H5.

 

If your answer is yes, that's what I'm referring to. Stop arguing these pointless semantics with me.

 

Yes, Audley, I'm fully aware that when the (slight) mechanics change, you have to evolve your strategy around the new mechanics, jungle, blah blah. It's not like any of these changes change the objective of the game entirely. I know you're a smart guy and I can understand the point you're getting at. But I also know on the same token of you being an intelligent person, you understood my point as well (not to mention that I wasn't even the one who brought this discussion up, you just chose to single-out my irrelevant one line post for some odd reason lol).

  • Upvote (+1) 5
  • Downvote (-1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

i cant take gow esports seriously when they spell esports as 'eSports'

 

did they not get the memo?  :kappa:

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

If grenades landing right next to you revealed your presence to the thrower, the effect on the meta would almost certainly not be *more turtling*. That demonstrates a very shaky understanding of game balance. The whole point I'm making here is that you can use hit sounds to flush people out of hiding positions, making it less advantageous to sit and wait in a corner forever. If they can check for you there, they probably will. The smart response is to stay moving so that it remains unlikely one of their feeler names happens to coincide with your position. Seriously, as if turtling was some huge problem in CE anyway...

 

As I've said a thousand times before, you are absolutely abusing the word random. Random is a bad word in this community. Calling something random to Halo fans is like calling somebody racist. It's axiomatically bad, and you can drum up hatred just by floating it. If anybody tries to call you for being too loose with your language, it's easy to make them look like THEY are the ones being ridiculous.

 

You're saying people throw random grenades in high level CE 2's (thanks for the education on this topic btw, speaking of condescending bullshit). It's true that you throw grenades in areas where you don't' KNOW that somebody is going to be, but that's all part of the poker game. You try your hardest to use all information available to you and guess where they're going to be. Sometimes they're there, sometimes they're not. You're making a high probability play, and you're also actively volunteering information, resources and attention to gather information for the very purpose of allowing you to make plays that are less random. No good player is just throwing grenades literally willy nilly. They have some understanding of all the places the opponent might be, and they're trying to narrow it down. This is a cool thing to add to the meta, and it's not "random" in the way that you're hoping other readers will subconsciously believe.

 

We can keep going around on these issues, but the bottom line is that there is a one-to-one correspondence between things you like and things that are reminiscent of Halo CE. I get the sensation that if CE had shipped without Camo being a thing, then you would be able to write huge essays about how it was a terrible skill less thing to add to the game. There is some amount of reasoning that you can do in a vacuum, but the best test is to actually play it and get good at it. Your arguments are strung along with connectives and some tenuous level of reasoning and justification, but they don't actually match reality. They're like a self consistent worldview that makes sense relative to itself, but is not empirically true. It's kind of a cop out, but the easiest way to see that hit markers are demonstrably fine is to *dum dum dum* play the game. If you play the game without hate in your heart, you will find yourself realizing that it works itself out.

I just told you I've played hundreds of hours with this garbage on. I didn't start out hating it. I tried it and found it to be a stupid addition. Nobody likes it. Comparing it to a powerup that is fought for and earned is completely asinine. Rockets are the least skilled thing in the game but I'm not going to demand its removal because it promotes map movement.

 

If you move around the map the chances of you getting hit by a grenade are higher. If you're charging around and turn a corner there could be one thrown in your feet before you realize it's coming. There are certain places on the maps that are tighter and harder to avoid grenades in but you are required to go through to move around the map. Conversely there are positions that are usually higher up and easy to see grenades coming from all angles and avoid. I'd be less likely to give up my position to chase someone or a powerup if I knew I could be prodded with a grenade and not only have I received damage but also given up my location to the opponent.

 

How is it condescending to explain game scenarios that perfectly encapsulate why hitmarkers are bad?

  • Upvote (+1) 1
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Guess Who is Back! Itz me Smee Meee

 

Come back after a long hiatus and see the following:

 

  • A lengthy discussion on settings: hit markers to be specific - when will the community learn that we have zero voice regarding settings. The only ones that do is beyond or other third party organizers who can host tournaments with different settings. Just shut up and take it.
  • i also saw a thread focusing on sprint, can we not just wave a white flag at this point, you are wasting your time and everyone else's. We have no voice unless it is supported by third party organizers and pro players guys and even then it is a small one.
  • Kudo's to beyond btw for hosting a no radar invitational.was cool to see and certainly sends a much more amplified and significant message than x forum poster writing an essay about why x feature sucks.
  • Upvote (+1) 2
  • Downvote (-1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

On to more relevant conversations...  :laughing:

 

I hope that we can see more no radar events. If not from HCS, at least from Beyond. That was actually enjoyable to watch and I loved the faster paced nature of no radar. When you're able to constantly make pushes to break setups without having to worry about players having their location given away, I feel we're going to start seeing some untapped potential in how these top players break setups/rotations.

 

I know Beyond can't run these tournaments all the time, but I will definitely support seeing more of these tournaments. Even if it means donating to the pot or something. Because no radar was hype to watch.

  • Upvote (+1) 4
  • Downvote (-1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

Because anything Diamond or higher, the meta is so deep, you wouldn't even begin to understand it.

 

You tell me not to be obnoxious the sentence after being condescending.

 

I was a top 500 player in LoL at the end of beta (ranked #314, one behind Elementz), and Diamond 4 100 LP in Season 5.  In between those I mostly played normals because of inconsistent internet connection.

  • Upvote (+1) 4
  • Downvote (-1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

You tell me not to be obnoxious the sentence after being condescending.

 

I was a top 500 player in LoL at the end of beta (ranked #314, one behind Elementz), and Diamond 4 100 LP in Season 5.  In between those I mostly played normals because of inconsistent internet connection.

 

I didn't mean you, Audley, I meant you in general. I feel like you're just looking for an argument. I posted a simple one line response and you're just nitpicking on small anecdotes. I wasn't being condescending, I'm saying that the meta evolves tremendously at the higher levels. And if you took that as me being condescending, I apologize, okay? I wasn't being condescending. I meant "you" (generally speaking). But to clarify, yes you are being pretty obnoxious by arguing this pointless topic with me. Just tired of the stupid arguments we get into in this thread. Like I'm not interested in discussing how/why the meta evolves in League of Legends in the damn HCS thread lmao. And if you truly don't believe that League of Legends has a meta that evolves, that's on you man.

  • Upvote (+1) 4
  • Downvote (-1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

You tell me not to be obnoxious the sentence after being condescending.

 

I was a top 500 player in LoL at the end of beta (ranked #314, one behind Elementz), and Diamond 4 100 LP in Season 5.  In between those I mostly played normals because of inconsistent internet connection.

yeah but can you beat doom bots at lvl 100

 

didn't think so

 

:kappa:

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

I don't get why some people think we need to start with skill-less and powerful autos or that we need them on the map. For variety? If I have a perfect $40 steak dinner on my plate I don't need to throw a soggy McDonald's burger in the mix for variety's sake.

The ar is more skillful than the br and I'm dead fucking serious
  • Downvote (-1) 6

Share this post


Link to post

I didn't mean you, Audley, I meant you in general. I feel like you're just looking for an argument. I posted a simple one line response and you're just nitpicking on small anecdotes. I wasn't being condescending, I'm saying that the meta evolves tremendously at the higher levels. If you took that as me being condescending, I apologize, okay? I wasn't being condescending. I meant "you" (generally speaking).

 

All right.  Probably got too sensitive about that.

 

I feel you're giving long responses and ignoring my actual point, though.

 

LoL isn't a great example of a meta evolving.

 

Sure, LoL's meta evolves a lot.  But LoL taken as a whole is not a perfect example of a meta evolving, because Riot doesn't give the game time to evolve.  Riot dictate metas.  They neutered lane swaps to force standard lanes right before playoffs/Worlds.  Champions that rise too quickly or stay powerful for too long get their legs chopped out from under them, 

 

DotA has longer patch cycles and so we see a lot more decisions about hero selection and map strategy based off what's strong or what's good against what's strong.

 

Then there's Street Fighter's which has essentially had the same gametype since 1987, and just swapped out characters.

 

 

 

Halo CE's meta had more evolution than Halo 5's, because there weren't developer-driven changes to gametypes after a few months of professional play to alter how the game was played.

 

Halo 2's meta had more evolution.

 

Halo 3 had great evolution on most of its gametypes -- Amplified and Onslaught grew as the game got more and more understood and teams' communication got better.

 

Then with Reach, H4, and now H5, we've seen a lot more times where games get changed often...we're not giving time for players to learn alternate ways to play against first order optimal strategies.  We see the start of metas evolving, but it gets cut down when the maps are given changes.  And we have to see new, fledgeling, unevolved metas come along to replace it.

 

 

 

That was long winded.

tldr:

We don't want to copy LoL.

Players should drive metas, not developers.

  • Upvote (+1) 5
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use & Privacy Policy.