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CyReN

HCS Pro League Fall 2016 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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I wanted to kind of give a little recap of my experience with everything, and go over the good, bad, and ugly. 

 

 

You done good. Thank you for taking the time to reply to us even when we were being salty little shits. The transparency you provided showed integrity on your side and I respect and appreciate it.

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Snip.

Thank you for the transparency behind some of the problems on the first couple of days. It honestly means so much to have some honesty and sharing of information in the Halo scene for once, instead of this community talking to a brick wall like most of the time.

 

And also, thank you for the feedback on us as a community - this is something I think is very important. We gave you feedback during the event, and you took it on immediately and pretty much won over almost everybody here who was posting while watching. In return, we should now listen to your feedback and try and make changes of our own.

 

Not sunshine and rainbows, I agree, but there's no doubt in my mind, after seeing what ESA pulled off on Sunday in response to respectful and constructive posts on here, that we couldn't try and be like that a bit more often.

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We knew going into this event that there was no way ticket sales were going to cover the prize pool let alone our other production costs. With that being the case we made the decision to keep costs on the players extremely low. $140 for a team pass (included 4 FFA passes), $15 for an FFA pass, and FREE for spectators. Our goal was to recoup some of those costs from sponsorship. We're eternally grateful for ASTRO Gaming coming in and sponsoring the FFA and really making that an awesome prize to win. But outside of those guys, who support this community more than anyone (Beyond tournaments anyone?), there isn't much in the Halo scene. Sponsors just aren't super interested. This means that Esports Arena took a HEAVY hit on this event, but we still shot to provide a good product where we could, without sinking ourselves even further.

Hey, for not having much money to put into the event, it was pretty good... Sure it had its ups and downs, but that final day, on that Sunday you guys made a huge turn around and really made the event 100 times better than it was... Thanks for taking the time to host the event and thanks much more for listening to the community to make those rapid changes. 

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When I was there I found the staff to be super helpful. My biggest complaint is that the buildings SURROUNDING esports arena are super shoddy looking and made esa look really run down, I almost drove right by it without realizing. Also the miniscule parking lot was a nightmare.

 

 

Bravo and T2 are both super tall in real life as well.

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It blows my mind how people don't understand the concept of double elimination. 

Then they go beyond that and prove that they do not understand the difference between regular season (essentially pool play,) and playoffs. 

 

Yup... If home-field advantage was a thing in e-sports, I kinda like the way soccer does cups. Its a home and away aggregate score that determines who moves on, then the final is a single match for all the glory. It does a nice job of ensuring the best teams make it to the final while still allowing for the suspenseful finish.

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With all this talk about the pros banding together to push for some changes in Arena settings, I wonder whether we'll see a 4v4 event with no radar and no/nerfed autos by the end of this year. 

 

One can pray...  :holmes:

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It blows my mind how people don't understand the concept of double elimination.

Then they go beyond that and prove that they do not understand the difference between regular season (essentially pool play,) and playoffs.

Tbf,

 

There are several different types of double eliminations tournaments. While the potential for a two series championship is the standard, many traditional sports handle it differently.

 

In wrestling for example, there is no promotion from the Losers bracket. If you lose once, the best you can place is 3rd. The championship finals is between two undefeated participants, who play a single match.

 

This type of setup is "fair" in any competition with seedings. The main draw of standard double elimination is that it corrects the error of the two strongest teams meeting up early in the tournament. But, statistically, seeding already prevents that.

 

Statistically, there's no reason for Halo to have standard double elimination in tourneys that use round robin performances (which is essentially what the regular season is) for seedings. But it's a hell of a lot more fun to watch.

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At this point, I think eSports Halo needs to branch off of the main halo titles. The core that the devs (343i) builds in these games holds back what eSports Halo should be.

Whether they make a spin-off for eSports Halo or a new company recreates the classic gameplay with a new name, it needs to be done.

 

343 wants to cooperate.. but not enough. I also feel we are holding back what 343i wants halo to be, so I think its best these 2 things become separate things. What we have now is a mix of arena/esports and gimmicks from campaign.. And this will continue if eSports Halo remains part of every main Halo game.

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At this point, I think eSports Halo needs to branch off of the main halo titles. The core that the devs (343i) builds in these games holds back what eSports Halo should be.

Whether they make a spin-off for eSports Halo or a new company recreates the classic gameplay with a new name, it needs to be done.

 

343 wants to cooperate.. but not enough. I also feel we are holding back what 343i wants halo to be, so I think its best these 2 things become separate things. What we have now is a mix of arena/esports and gimmicks from campaign.. And this will continue if eSports Halo remains part of every main Halo game.

I think this is a bit drastic. The "Core" of this game should be fine for competitive play. It's different from previous games, and some would say inferior, but there's no reason an adequately entertaining and skillful environment can't emerge- in many ways it already has.

 

What holds it back are the vanilla settings, the lack of offline multiplayer, and constant missteps by the developer interms of support for the scene.

 

The growth of the competitive scene on the local level was severely hampered by the lack of LAN support. Then, It took a FULL YEAR to have the first official Open LAN tournament- More than enough time for interest in the scene to dwindle.

To add insult to injury, the settings are still aimed to merge the Esports audience with the casually competitive audience- much to the displeasure of both parties. Previous titles have proven than both parties can be pleased simultaneously, so long as playlist management properly separates them.

 

Just imagine if the excitement following Worlds had been followed up with a proper Pro Circuit.

 

I strongly doubt that relegating the Esports scene to spinoff titles would do much for making this scene more financially viable.

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Nice write up @@Phade, I hope the transparency doesn't change. 

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Tbf,

 

There are several different types of double eliminations tournaments. While the potential for a two series championship is the standard, many traditional sports handle it differently.

 

In wrestling for example, there is no promotion from the Losers bracket. If you lose once, the best you can place is 3rd. The championship finals is between two undefeated participants, who play a single match.

 

This type of setup is "fair" in any competition with seedings. The main draw of standard double elimination is that it corrects the error of the two strongest teams meeting up early in the tournament. But, statistically, seeding already prevents that.

 

Statistically, there's no reason for Halo to have standard double elimination in tourneys that use round robin performances (which is essentially what the regular season is) for seedings. But it's a hell of a lot more fun to watch.

The format of double elimination typically used in Halo has been around for well over a decade. It would be more exciting if it was a single elim finals because typically the 0 loss team wins. However, placings in halo is tied to income. Most pro athletes are paid the same regardless of placing. They might have an incentive based contract that pays a bonus for a superbowl/championship win, but usually not. 

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So do we have a list of Pro teams going to UGC? I've got my passes and hotels booked now. First event to go to and will be very disappointed if they don't show up.

 

I saw @@LethuL say they are most likely not attending which hurts  :mj:

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-awesome wall of text-

You are amazing. It would have been so easy for you to tell us to fuck off and ignored everything we said and maybe we woukd have deserved being ignored. But you took the good and the bad and the improvement from Friday to Sunday was incredible.

 

I sincerely hope you get more HCS events that you can really devote the time to doing as you said. You have shown that you can do an amazing job. If yall need to please open up a donation page. I couldn't make it to LA but I'd love to throw in 10-15 to help you make the event as good as possible.

 

Keep doing what you do @@Phade. You are amazing. Your passion is incredible. Keep up the casting and keep interacting with the community. Thanks again for hosting the event and I hope we see more of you guys in the future.

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I think this is a bit drastic. The "Core" of this game should be fine for competitive play. It's different from previous games, and some would say inferior, but there's no reason an adequately entertaining and skillful environment can't emerge- in many ways it already has.

 

What holds it back are the vanilla settings, the lack of offline multiplayer, and constant missteps by the developer interms of support for the scene.

 

The growth of the competitive scene on the local level was severely hampered by the lack of LAN support. Then, It took a FULL YEAR to have the first official Open LAN tournament- More than enough time for interest in the scene to dwindle.

To add insult to injury, the settings are still aimed to merge the Esports audience with the casually competitive audience- much to the displeasure of both parties. Previous titles have proven than both parties can be pleased simultaneously, so long as playlist management properly separates them.

 

Just imagine if the excitement following Worlds had been followed up with a proper Pro Circuit.

 

I strongly doubt that relegating the Esports scene to spinoff titles would do much for making this scene more financially viable.

I agree with that, but thats a whole other topic/problem. Even if we had good LAN events, we'd still get a mediocre audience. The only other way this game wouldve gotten big was if it attracted a lot of new people. And while it did bring new players, it wasnt enough.

 

Like, why cant we fund a game that plays like a good competitive halo game (or better)? Why are we relying on 343 to make the game some people rely on to compete for a living when its not even 343's main focus?

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I agree with that, but thats a whole other topic/problem. Even if we had good LAN events, we'd still get a mediocre audience. The only other way this game wouldve gotten big was if it attracted a lot of new people. And while it did bring new players, it wasnt enough.

 

Like, why cant we fund a game that plays like a good competitive halo game (or better)? Why are we relying on 343 to make the game some people rely on to compete for a living when its not even 343's main focus?

 

Because without 343 it isn't Halo. The core of this game is still Halo, and the name alone brought the majority of the new players in. It is very rare for new IP's to become instant smash successes. With your plan we would be waiting 3-5 years for a new developer to create and release a game that "feels like a good competitive halo," and that's if they started making the game today. H5 has the bones to be a great competitive FPS, we just need 343 to stop being stubborn and adjust the settings to really let the game shine. 

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