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CyReN

HCS Pro League Fall 2016 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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I know people feel watching a "one gun game" gets boring regarding either the pistol on H1 (when in reality there's a variety of weapons used) or BR's in H2/H3 but I'd much rather watch those style of games than the Eden game that Royal 2 posted. No offense to him, considering that he got a perfection but at what point does crouching with a shotgun become more enjoyable to watch than other versions of Halo?

 

I posted it in another thread regarding Radar. Halo CE has a lot more verticality than Halo 5. Shadowrun has a lot more movement options/abilities than Halo 5. Neither NEEDS radar. Halo 5 doesn't NEED radar either. Over time the game will evolve and players will pick up on patterns and be able to anticipate movements better.

 

Ahhh i couldnt agree more.. the amount of weapons is so annoying tbh.. its almost rare to see a 1v1 pistol now i find.  H2/3 were really enjoyable to watch for me and i totally understand things need to evolve, i dont mind thrust or even ground pound but i would much rather watch pistols only other than Fiest.....HCS settings.

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You rely on your headset sometimes to determine the location of your opponent I'm guessing. Just to play devils advocate here, with no radar, how would you plan on engaging that player knowing full well he doesn't no where you are? Spartan Charge the shit out him! Would you like that to happen to you the majority of a game? I wouldn't.

 

you say this like we didn't have double beatdowns to deal with without radar. decrease the lunge range (yes spartan charge has one), make the pistol 4shot and call it a day.

 

but 343 knows full well if we they remove one thing it will snowball into removing all the other stupid shit so it is what it is.

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What is the saying?: "A jack of all trades is a master of none." 

 

That's one of those sayings people never finish... the rest of the quote is "But still better than a master of one."

 

Just like people use "Blood is thicker than water" to defend supporting family over friends -- but the quote is "The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb." meaning connections you CHOOSE to make are more important than those from birth.

 

 

 

Edit: Fact-checking myself and correcting here:

 

Actually, the "Master of None" part wasn't even part of the original quote.  The original was Johannes factotum (Johnny do-it-all, roughly) -- and "Master of None" was added about 130 years after the original.

 

(The part I posted and struck out is apparently a heavily circulated internet myth / rewrite of history.)

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Because the anti-radar side isn't people's opinions?? Must have missed the clear cut facts that definitively prove it's better without...put down the pitch forks, people. I also didn't present my opinion as facts, I said 'I think' clear as day, so not sure where you're getting that from.

 

I'm also not even saying I prefer it in over out, but man I don't think it's a top 2 issue in Halo 5, or at least not worth the fact that it's been this thread's nearly sole focus now for days.

 

Edit: I asked Snakebite in stream, and he said he'd like to test it, but doesn't think H5 would work without it. He thinks people underestimate how fast the game is. I suppose he doesn't know what he's talking about either!

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Because the anti-radar side isn't people's opinions?? Must have missed the clear cut facts that definitively prove it's better without...put down the pitch forks, people. I also didn't present my opinion as facts, I said 'I think' clear as day, so not sure where you're getting that from.

 

I'm also not even saying I prefer it in over out, but man I don't think it's a top 2 issue in Halo 5, or at least not worth the fact that it's been this thread's nearly sole focus now for days.

 

or maybe... just maybe.. there are years worth of gameplay from previous halos, analysis on the subject breaking it down on a meta level, and obvious standoff situations in halo 5 (fathom flag says hi) that you're ignorance isn't taking into account?

 

edit - no disrespect to snakebite or any of the pros but after some of the things pros in the past have said about halo, any opinion they have shouldn't be taken as the word of god regarding halo meta. and being that there is no consensis, cherry picking one pros opinion is equally flawed.

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Just like its always 5 oclock somewhere, there is always a radar/sprint argument on TB

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Anyone else want to try a Sniper on Truth? 

 

No? Just me? Ok.

 

 

"What the hell am I supposed to do with this INSIDE a Covenant ship?"

 

- Romeo, 2552

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or maybe... just maybe.. there are years worth of gameplay from previous halos, analysis on the subject breaking it down on a meta level, and obvious standoff situations in halo 5 (fathom flag says hi) that you're ignorance isn't taking into account?

Assuming every standoff situation is radar's fault is wildly illogical, how are you coming to that conclusion? I guess Lockout slayer standoffs--probably among the most consistent and common in competitive Halo--were the nonexistent radar's fault?

 

And yeah, guess Snakebite is 'ignorant' too for not thinking it's necessary to remove, like you guys seem to think is a proven fact.

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Assuming every standoff situation is radar's fault is wildly illogical, how are you coming to that conclusion? I guess Lockout slayer standoffs--probably among the most consistent and common in competitive Halo--were the nonexistent radar's fault?

 

And yeah, guess Snakebite is 'ignorant' too for not thinking it's necessary to remove, like you guys seem to think is a proven fact.

Could you imagine how much worse Lockout standoffs would be with radar?

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Assuming every standoff situation is radar's fault is wildly illogical, how are you coming to that conclusion? I guess Lockout slayer standoffs--probably among the most consistent and common in competitive Halo--were the nonexistent radar's fault?

 

Adrift TS was the most standoffish.

 

There was literally a 0-0 competitive Adrift TS game.

 

 

Slayer itself, by nature, turns to standoffs if the maps allow it because the win condition is to die less than your opponent.  So you just stop dying if you lose the lead until there's a window to get a pickoff or power weapon.

 

You're right that Radar is 100% irrelevant to that situation in Slayer.

 

 

Radar is still a bad mechanic for competitive play and should be removed.

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you say this like we didn't have double beatdowns to deal with without radar. decrease the lunge range (yes spartan charge has one), make the pistol 4shot and call it a day.

 

but 343 knows full well if we they remove one thing it will snowball into removing all the other stupid shit so it is what it is.

If Spartan Charge got a huge nerf, I would 100% support no radar, but as things are now, I'm just indifferent. I like how Halo 5 is played now and I like how Halo used to play without radar. I just don't want drastic changes to be made without properly weighing the pros and cons through extensive testing which is why it irritates me as to why 343 would waste their time with the Team Arena Preview settings that nobody asked for instead of trying no radar so we can have a better understanding of what changes need to be made in order to make no radar work and make Halo 5 an even better competitive game than it is now. Btw, I think the 5 shot pistol is fine.

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or maybe... just maybe.. there are years worth of gameplay from previous halos, analysis on the subject breaking it down on a meta level, and obvious standoff situations in halo 5 (fathom flag says hi) that you're ignorance isn't taking into account?

 

edit - no disrespect to snakebite or any of the pros but after some of the things pros in the past have said about halo, any opinion they have shouldn't be taken as the word of god regarding halo meta. and being that there is no consensis, cherry picking one pros opinion is equally flawed.

But a forum poster's opinion should, right? You're acting like it's definitively proven, while all I'm saying is I don't think it's as huge of a deal/as obviously negative as people are making out, and pointing to a prominent pro player who thinks the game would suffer were it removed. That means there's not really a consensus, so calling me "ignorant" and stating like a fact that "I don't know what I'm talking about" is a shitty thing to do, and doesn't give any evidence for your argument.

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Assuming every standoff situation is radar's fault is wildly illogical, how are you coming to that conclusion? I guess Lockout slayer standoffs--probably among the most consistent and common in competitive Halo--were the nonexistent radar's fault?

 

And yeah, guess Snakebite is 'ignorant' too for not thinking it's necessary to remove, like you guys seem to think is a proven fact.

a. see my edit, touting around the opinion of one pro is a logical fallacy due to the points i mentioned.

 

b. quote where i said radar is solely responsible for standoffs. strawman is strawman. the point here is that radar makes standoffs that much more easier to happen. choosing the one of the few examples of standoffs being due to flawed map design doesn't negate this.

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Adrift TS was the most standoffish.

 

There was literally a 0-0 competitive Adrift TS game.

 

 

Slayer itself, by nature, turns to standoffs if the maps allow it because the win condition is to die less than your opponent.  So you just stop dying if you lose the lead until there's a window to get a pickoff or power weapon.

 

You're right that Radar is 100% irrelevant to that situation in Slayer.

 

 

Radar is still a bad mechanic for competitive play and should be removed.

Right, all I'm saying is it happened with no radar too, so blaming radar every time people see a standoff in H5 is a peculiar line of thinking. It happens based on the map, the teams, and the scenario, with radar only factoring in to a push (you can still fool radar by crouching, after all).

 

I'd like to see how the game plays without it, too, but at least two pros have negative opinions of removing radar, so it's not some clear cut fact like people here are making out. Mainly, I think there are other more important issues with this game, and don't think Halo 5 matches devolve into very much camping or waiting around.

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This game really doesn't suffer from many standoffs--most pro matches don't even last that long!--and if they do drag on, I really don't think it's radar's fault. The presence of radar is also something to strategically plan around on its own, too, since you can make crouch plays and fool people watching radar. We don't see much camping in....any gametype? You're usually better served moving and rotating in Halo 5, the radar is just more information. Think people are making a way too big deal of it, while weapons, spawn times, auto power, and other settings have a much bigger impact.

But a forum poster's opinion should, right? You're acting like it's definitively proven

But again aren't you doing the same thing? Using your own opinion as fact.

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Just like its always 5 oclock somewhere, there is always a radar/sprint argument on TB

I believe this cycles to Ninja Good/Bad at midnight tonight, so hold tight fam.

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Cyren , I would like to propose a new title for the thread:

 

HCS Pro League Fall 2016 DRAMA, Teams, Seeds and Discussion‏.

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But a forum poster's opinion should, right? You're acting like it's definitively proven, while all I'm saying is I don't think it's as huge of a deal/as obviously negative as people are making out, and pointing to a prominent pro player who thinks the game would suffer were it removed. That means there's not really a consensus, so calling me "ignorant" and stating like a fact that "I don't know what I'm talking about" is a shitty thing to do, and doesn't give any evidence for your argument.

 

an opinion by one forum poster and a consensis shared by many for years are two different things. the latter has the benefit of being broken down on a meta level countless times both here and elsewhere. the break downs on why radar dumbs down the game are out there, educate yourself and look it up. i'm sure cursedlemon, vinnymendoza and countless others here can link you an essay.

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Don't care what anyone says, this was amazing to watch

 

omg i have been trying to find this for ages. Thank you

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But again aren't you doing the same thing? Using your own opinion as fact.

No? I'm using my opinion as opinion (pretty clearly, too, saying 'I think' 3 different times), then you walked in and said I'm using it as a fact. It's pretty clear we're all providing our opinions here, nobody has to explicitly say otherwise. Then I bring up Snakebite's opinion, and that should be taken with a grain of salt, but this guy's out here assuring me that anti-radar opinions are proven with a ton of evidence and 'research'. Missing the point anyway, I was mainly saying there are more important problems with competitive H5, I'm moving on.

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Adrift TS was the most standoffish.

 

There was literally a 0-0 competitive Adrift TS game.

 

 

Slayer itself, by nature, turns to standoffs if the maps allow it because the win condition is to die less than your opponent.  So you just stop dying if you lose the lead until there's a window to get a pickoff or power weapon.

 

You're right that Radar is 100% irrelevant to that situation in Slayer.

 

 

Radar is still a bad mechanic for competitive play and should be removed.

It is but in the same token have a finite number of deaths slows it down also. If the games were 10min limit / no frag limit you would likely see more total frags than your average 10min first to 50 slayer (unless of course the meta of a particular team was to slow the game down during periods of control).

 

When this was brought up yesterday I went and watched the below QuakeWorld TDM just for a bit of contrast: Time limit over score limit, high lethality of a few individuals leading to spawn farming. Obviously first to 50 is ingrained in Halo but it is interesting to see that there are other options that create different slayer experiences. Worth a watch anyway, even if just to listen to DDK (former Quake pro, current CSGO caster) nerd out for an hour.

 

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CoD and Destiny both get good views. Manage to break 60k views with very little difficulty. You can get both the games on Xbox and Playstation.

 

Halo S2 finals only had 23k views. You can get the game only on Xbox.

 

 

 

I wonder why CoD and Destiny are so popular... :thinking:

Dead horse is dead, Captain Obvious rode him off a cliff.

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