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HCS Pro League Fall 2016 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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Why would Huke and Snipedown have anything to say about E6 shading players? Snipedown shaded E6 by poaching their player. E6 would have had every right to make that transfer difficult.

"Snipedown shaded E6" because he asked a player to join his team? Did he do something else to make it shady? There doesn't seem to be anything shady about it otherwise.

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(Maybe not the right spot for this but this is literally the only Beyond thread I read and trust you guys more, so:) I want to buy a Scuff, and have next to no idea what to choose in regards to my stick height and type, don't want to dislike what I buy! I see the recommended setup on the site, but feel skeptical of domed sticks in general, and don't like the idea of tall sticks.

 

I assume at least some of you are using one for H5, any suggestions? I'll use it for PC gaming also, but Halo is my main reason to get one. Short, medium sticks? Why is a different height better on one specific side than another?

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"Snipedown shaded E6" because he asked a player to join his team? Did he do something else to make it shady? There doesn't seem to be anything shady about it otherwise.

Poaching players under contract is penalized by a fine in other esports.

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Just something to note on the E6 Stellur situation. When you tell someone their salary you tell them what you pay them, not what they get after taxes. You don't get told "You'll get $30 000 after taxes" when asking about compensation in a job interview, they tell you "We'll give you $40 000 annual salary" and its up to you to figure out what that means in actual take home after taxes.

 

If they were told they'd be making 3k then their salary being changed to 1.5 is a shitty thing to do, but the 3 to 2.5 was just Cratos informing them of what their actual takehome after taxes would be. I don't understand how people have understood the situation as two separate lies. 

Well even StelluR said that wasn't his main issue, and I don't think that was everyone's main issue. 

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Poaching players under contract is penalized by a fine in other esports.

Is it a fine given to the player under contract or the player who asked if the player under contract could leave?

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Poaching players under contract is penalized by a fine in other esports.

Meh. If the contracted player is interested in taking another opportunity when his contract is up and or bought out, then the player clearly wasn't satisfied with their current situation.

 

Happens all the time in sports, players demand trades, etc.

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(Maybe not the right spot for this but this is literally the only Beyond thread I read and trust you guys more, so:) I want to buy a Scuff, and have next to no idea what to choose in regards to my stick height and type, don't want to dislike what I buy! I see the recommended setup on the site, but feel skeptical of domed sticks in general, and don't like the idea of tall sticks.

 

I assume at least some of you are using one for H5, any suggestions? I'll use it for PC gaming also, but Halo is my main reason to get one. Short, medium sticks? Why is a different height better on one specific side than another?

Honestly, just get the default Xbox thumbsticks on it. The SCUF thumbsticks feel really slippery and are a lot wider than default.

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Pro league is almost among us! The players can finally take all of the shade and make it official on the battlefield! 

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OT but I do have to admit while placing low (plat 1) and grinding it all the way to onyx solo on a smurf, feels very rewarding.

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Meh. If the contracted player is interested in taking another opportunity when his contract is up and or bought out, then the player clearly wasn't satisfied with their current situation.

 

Happens all the time in sports, players demand trades, etc.

Oh yea I'm well aware, was just stating a fact. In Halo they don't really have anything set in place that I know of to prevent it so imo it's not too big of a deal. I figure there'd be something in a player's individual contract if there was something.

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Pro league is almost among us! The players can finally take all of the shade and make it official on the battlefield! 

Looking forward to nV - TL, should be match of the week.

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Re: the whole "Slayer has too many weapons" thing.

Personally I think that reducing the weapons is a band-aid fix to the gametype just not being very good. Admittedly there aren't exactly a lot of alternatives to pick from in H5, but deaths being directly tied to scoring (especially on maps without camo) makes breaking a setup very costly in terms of score deficit if it goes even slightly wrong.

 

Royal 2's playstyle in that game he uploaded is exactly why I take issue with Slayer being played in tournaments. No other team based FPS uses a deathmatch variant in competition for good reason - it actively skews the risk/reward balance of most plays made from a trailing position towards being riskier because if it goes wrong your opposition doesn't just earn a few seconds to further improve their positional advantage, but also widens the score gap. With Objectives even if you're ahead you have to keep pushing to get further ahead and momentum can go back and forth much more fluidly.

It would be nice if they could figure a way to put an objective twist onto the standard death match we get from Slayer.

 

I like what GOW is doing with their "dodge ball" gametype, but I don't know how that would work in the halo sandbox.

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Poaching players under contract is penalized by a fine in other esports.

What would "poaching" be considered as though? That could be resulted as anyrhing I feel, if a player wants to join a team, even with a contract in place, let them.

 

I might be reading that wrong entirely, but just how I see it.

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Just something to note on the E6 Stellur situation. When you tell someone their salary you tell them what you pay them, not what they get after taxes. You don't get told "You'll get $30 000 after taxes" when asking about compensation in a job interview, they tell you "We'll give you $40 000 annual salary" and its up to you to figure out what that means in actual take home after taxes.

 

If they were told they'd be making 3k then their salary being changed to 1.5 is a shitty thing to do, but the 3 to 2.5 was just Cratos informing them of what their actual takehome after taxes would be. I don't understand how people have understood the situation as two separate lies.

I agree. That's like three pairs of shoes over the course of a year.

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Re: the whole "Slayer has too many weapons" thing.

Personally I think that reducing the weapons is a band-aid fix to the gametype just not being very good. Admittedly there aren't exactly a lot of alternatives to pick from in H5, but deaths being directly tied to scoring (especially on maps without camo) makes breaking a setup very costly in terms of score deficit if it goes even slightly wrong.

 

Royal 2's playstyle in that game he uploaded is exactly why I take issue with Slayer being played in tournaments. No other team based FPS uses a deathmatch variant in competition for good reason - it actively skews the risk/reward balance of most plays made from a trailing position towards being riskier because if it goes wrong your opposition doesn't just earn a few seconds to further improve their positional advantage, but also widens the score gap. With Objectives even if you're ahead you have to keep pushing to get further ahead and momentum can go back and forth much more fluidly.

Dead horse about to get walloped here.  No radar would help this.

 

Interesting enough, after Worlds, everybody agreed that Eg is too slow and too setup based team and they need to be faster, relying more on their individual skill.

 

You do have to be very fast in Halo 5, but you also have to be judicious.  Earlier in that scrim they had a trip cap in Rig strongholds, they saw the bunker spawn getting taken and instead of harassing them and preparing for the other team to make a push, they all rushed in, got a couple kills and defended the trip cap... for a second.  then they got spawned behind and fucked and ended up losing the game.  I saw that as the turning point in the game,  if they had held their ground and got the other team to spawn bunker repeatedly, it would have been over.

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Regarding poaching, since Stellur was still under a Liquid contract when he got the offer from Cratos(and Suspector), isn't that poaching?

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You do have to be very fast in Halo 5, but you also have to be judicious. Earlier in that scrim they had a trip cap in Rig strongholds, they saw the bunker spawn getting taken and instead of harassing them and preparing for the other team to make a push, they all rushed in, got a couple kills and defended the trip cap... for a second. then they got spawned behind and fucked and ended up losing the game. I saw that as the turning point in the game, if they had held their ground and got the other team to spawn bunker repeatedly, it would have been over.

Yeah, i was just stating a fun fact. Still kind of painful to watch Eg powerhouse turning into 4-6 team that can't grasp the pace of the game. Things have changed drastically since xgames.

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Re: the whole "Slayer has too many weapons" thing.

Personally I think that reducing the weapons is a band-aid fix to the gametype just not being very good. Admittedly there aren't exactly a lot of alternatives to pick from in H5, but deaths being directly tied to scoring (especially on maps without camo) makes breaking a setup very costly in terms of score deficit if it goes even slightly wrong.

 

Royal 2's playstyle in that game he uploaded is exactly why I take issue with Slayer being played in tournaments. No other team based FPS uses a deathmatch variant in competition for good reason - it actively skews the risk/reward balance of most plays made from a trailing position towards being riskier because if it goes wrong your opposition doesn't just earn a few seconds to further improve their positional advantage, but also widens the score gap. With Objectives even if you're ahead you have to keep pushing to get further ahead and momentum can go back and forth much more fluidly.

So what you're saying is replace slayer with breakout? Snakebite would like to have a word with you.

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Re: the whole "Slayer has too many weapons" thing.

Personally I think that reducing the weapons is a band-aid fix to the gametype just not being very good. Admittedly there aren't exactly a lot of alternatives to pick from in H5, but deaths being directly tied to scoring (especially on maps without camo) makes breaking a setup very costly in terms of score deficit if it goes even slightly wrong.

 

Royal 2's playstyle in that game he uploaded is exactly why I take issue with Slayer being played in tournaments. No other team based FPS uses a deathmatch variant in competition for good reason - it actively skews the risk/reward balance of most plays made from a trailing position towards being riskier because if it goes wrong your opposition doesn't just earn a few seconds to further improve their positional advantage, but also widens the score gap. With Objectives even if you're ahead you have to keep pushing to get further ahead and momentum can go back and forth much more fluidly.

 

Dead horse about to get walloped here.  No radar would help this.

 

While No Radar would help the game in general, it doesn't prevent Slayer from being a gametype that fails to promote movement.  Competitive Halo 4 had no radar, but we still saw a game from a local tournament on Adrift where the final score ended 0-0 because NO ONE would peek enough to actually get killed.  The goal in Slayer isn't to get 50 kills.  It's not even to get more kills than your opponent.  The actual win condition of Slayer is to have less deaths than your opponent.  If you took that same Adrift game and someone had accidentally fallen off the map, dropping themselves to -1, the other team would've won without getting a single kill.

 

The problem with Slayer is that it is objectively (heh) a bad indicator of which is the better team, because it is the most prone to stalemates (again, due to DEATHS being the marker of score) -- stalematey gametypes favor the underdog (ESPECIALLY when there's a high power weapon saturation) because they give stronger weighting to the very start of the game, and less opportunities to comeback from a bad start.  The less movement there is on a game, the less a team has to prove they are the better team throughout the game.  They just sit on their lead and coast to victory.

 

Am I advocating for the removal of Slayer?  No, because unfortunately Slayer is far, far, far more popular of a gametype than objectives when it comes to standard Halo play. (Nowadays, Warzone is the most popular, but I guarantee you if 343 made a variant of Warzone that was just "Warzone Slayer" and you only get points for killing, it would have the highest population in H5...even surpassing the regular Warzone).

 

 

Meh. If the contracted player is interested in taking another opportunity when his contract is up and or bought out, then the player clearly wasn't satisfied with their current situation.

 

Happens all the time in sports, players demand trades, etc.

 

Poaching rules are made as a protection for less wealthy organizations to protect their assets (players), and also ensures players respect their organization infrastructure.

 

If, hypothetically, Penguin wasn't happy on TeamLiquid, he could still look to be traded, but it would be on Caleb (Liquid's manager) to handle shopping him around and talking to other org managers to look for his new home.

 

When players are in control of their own destiny, it leads to situations like we had in H2A where players couldn't move to a team they wanted and would go to social media, cry foul, and attempt to drag the org name through the mud, forcing the org to let them go.  This leads to orgs being unable to get any kind of gain (a buyout) for their players, which hurts smaller orgs wiith less money, who would then have to shop for uncontracted players in order to fill the hole in their roster...since they wouldn't be able to afford a buyout for other players.

 

Poaching, by definition, is when a player or manager from one team (the poachers) talk to a player under contract by another team (the poachee) about joining / about salary / about contract-related issues.  It is acceptable for a player or manager of a team to do that under the condition that they first approach the other team's manager, express their intent to talk to the contracted player, and obtain permission.  It's just one extra step to go from "Shady" to "Totally Acceptable."

 

The clarity is important. 

 

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Guy's, poaching is a blanket term used when a player or team talks with another player with the intent to get them on their own team(while the player is under a different contact). It's like an official term for shady Halo kid stuff. It's different with every situation tho. CLG getting Lethul wasn't technically poaching since he was not under contract with EG. Snipedown recruiting Huke was. And in Halo it really depends on if the Org cares to make a big deal about it. E6 presumably was upset with Eric, hence the apology. I don't know that for sure so take that with a grain of salt.

 

@@TonyDHFC also see Audley's comment above.

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