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HCS Pro League Fall 2016 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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I mean, the whole argument is that you can't predict the movement of the player out of sight. Well that isn't possible in any halo. What im feeling now is a resistance to change, and the only pros i have seen advocate for Radar are the one who have made the most money in H5 (Lethal and Royal2), not saying that they are consciously lobbying for Radar, but they are biased and their life security could be at risk.

 

I personally believe they would be a Top 1 or 2 team with or without it. I agree with what you're saying though, it's just the resistance to change I believe is the biggest problem. During the Halo 2 days there were people who outright opposed BR start playlist because they thought that Halo 2 was meant to be played the with the default settings which would be SMG start. Now, had BR start always been the default, that argument wouldn't have even existed. The same exist for no radar.

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Now that makes sense. What I watched was always slow but I'll blame @@LethuL for that. 

And to @@Unreall no never played Gears it never interested me, but 4 looks really good. Might watch Gears since its starting now actually :simms:

 

Yeah, Gears can get pretty slow at low-to-mid-range skill levels, particularly in core tuning (where all of the weapons, especially the rifles, are overpowered). High level play almost looks like a different game sometimes. Players like Xplosive just have insane movement tech.

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NA Pro League Week 4 Stats

 

EnVyUs:

ganpzxH.jpg

 

Optic:

 

zWCNMic.jpg

 

 

Liquid:

 

Zpzl6qn.jpg

 

 

Luminosity:

 

iBWTGqR.jpg

 

 

LOL:

 

BagSW3T.jpg

 

 

Evil Geniuses:

 

UgdRlu4.jpg

 

 

Enigma6:

 

8wviDbr.jpg

 

 

Allegiance:

 

hmd4rgS.jpg

 

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NA Pro League Week 4 Stats

 

EnVyUs:

ganpzxH.jpg

 

Optic:

 

zWCNMic.jpg

 

 

Liquid:

 

Zpzl6qn.jpg

 

 

Luminosity:

 

iBWTGqR.jpg

 

 

LOL:

 

BagSW3T.jpg

 

 

Evil Geniuses:

 

UgdRlu4.jpg

 

 

Enigma6:

 

8wviDbr.jpg

 

 

Allegiance:

 

hmd4rgS.jpg

 

The Twins are the problem. :kappa:

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What is chaotic for people ??. Being able to flank?. I don't understand the unpredictable argument since the cooldown for thrust is constant and sprint also has constant speed. The same argument could be applied for older halos toos, since you cant know when a player stops moving and resumes movements, hence creating the "randomness" .

 

Radar is bad.

Radar is bad.

 

But Being able to trust jump across the map off spawn changes things.

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@@Teapot

 

I remember you saying that Shadowrun's movement is more "hectic" or unpredictable compared to Halo 5's movement, and doesn't require radar. What are your thoughts on this?

 

EDIT: I didn't see that you had posted as my page didn't refresh, oops.

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I said this like a week ago and I'll say it again. You can't let your preconceived notions cloud your vision. You have to to open to test, collect data, and analyse. You have to be willing to test outside of your collective group of close friends, it's why people run betas. You have to approach it as a science. Leave emotions at the door. If you can't do that they all you'll end up with is personal opinion. It feels like people are entrenched in their radar/no radar positions. People don't really have an open mind to look at this objectively. Everyone is just spouting opinions with nothing to back it up.

 

In the end, long term data needs to be gathered on changes and compared. Simple as that. Give 343 all the shit you want, but they do understand this simple fact.

 

Unfortunately, console gaming doesn't have a long shelf life. Halo is better then COD. But this is one of the reasons why PC games (CS:GO, LoL, Dota, etc) have an advantage. The games stick around for a long time and evolve.

 

 

PS: I'm working on finishing up gathering more match data from the last nV/Luminosity scrim that can be compared the the no radar event. Basically what I posted earlier but with more games so the sample for comparison is larger. Obviously it still isn't enough (1 no radar event doesn't make a trend) and really would be best to see more teams, but it's something and I do find it interesting.

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I said this like a week ago and I'll say it again. You can't let your preconceived notions cloud your vision. You have to to open to test, collect data, and analyse. You have to be willing to test outside of your collective group of close friends, it's why people run betas. You have to approach it as a science. Leave emotions at the door. If you can't do that they all you'll end up with is personal opinion. It feels like people are entrenched in their radar/no radar positions. People don't really have an open mind to look at this objectively. Everyone is just spouting opinions with nothing to back it up.

 

In the end, long term data needs to be gathered on changes and compared. Simple as that. Give 343 all the shit you want, but they do understand this simple fact.

 

Unfortunately, console gaming doesn't have a long shelf life. Halo is better then COD. But this is one of the reasons why PC games (CS:GO, LoL, Dota, etc) have an advantage. The games stick around for a long time and evolve.

 

 

PS: I'm working on finishing up gathering more match data from the last nV/Luminosity scrim that can be compared the the no radar event. Basically what I posted earlier but with more games so the sample for comparison is larger. Obviously it still isn't enough (1 no radar event doesn't make a trend) and really would be best to see more teams, but it's something and I do find it interesting.

Humans are flawed.  The data never lies.  I like the idea of applying the scientific method to this,  get the data first then draw conclusions

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These last few pages confuse me..

 

Thanks Beyond for doing this! It sparked a couple of nights of no radar customs that we tested and it was a lot of fun. Made me want to play again and I haven't felt that since midway through HCS first season. I felt it really exposed players lack of awareness and confidence in their game. Of course, just like with anything in life, practice makes perfect and I'm sure after some practice it wouldn't be "random" or "unpredictable".

 

Sad to see the pros sarcastically joke around about how radar being off doesn't matter or w/e they're trying to get across with their well written arguments. Honeymoon phase? Whose fault is that? I mean just up until now we found out you guys haven't properly communicated the removal of radar with 343, why? because apparently nobody tested it? why? because who fucking knows.. so thanks laughing at someone else's initiative when taking none yourself. I thought it was more unanimous that no radar would make for a more competitive game but oh well. Shout out to the pros who participated in this series last night. It was some of the most fun I had watching Halo 5. Shout out to beyond for making it happen, and Deucey who has done such great work for evolved and always goes about promoting them in a healthy way.

The worst part of the whole argument is that the Pros are "authority figures" so a lot of people are changing their mind just because Lethul is pro Radar or Royal .

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I mean, the whole argument is that you can't predict the movement of the player out of sight. Well that isn't possible in any halo. What im feeling now is a resistance to change, and the only pros i have seen advocate for Radar are the one who have made the most money in H5 (Lethal and Royal2), not saying that they are consciously lobbying for Radar, but they are biased and their life security could be at risk.

 

I don't want radar, but I feel the need to point something out:

 

 

Optic would most likely be even better without radar. Could you imagine trying to guess where Frosty fucking went? Lethul is always everywhere, and so is Snakebite. They have the best teamwork in H5 by FAR too, and Royal 2 is Royal 2. They have no reason (imo) to oppose radar in any serious capacity. @LethuL seemed to be on board at least in theory with the idea of a Spartan Ability/Sprint tracker.

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The worst part of the whole argument is that the Pros are "authority figures" so a lot of people are changing their mind just because Lethul is pro Radar or Royal .

Pros are changing their minds because on lxthul? That's just not true.

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Out of the 8 people who played last night, none of them have posted their thoughts about no radar. That is an issue.

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Ive managed software development before and the idea of an ability radar sounds like a lot of effort for not a huge change in the game.  Would rather devs fix the bugs \ issues with the game, activate a LAN mode, rebalance weapons, fix spectator mode, and just give good tools to fine tune settings than screw around with a complex radar system.  

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It really pains me to say this but there will never be common ground and will always be issues with the game until sprint and all these gimmicks (AA) are gone.

 

Im sure this has been said before but the only way sprint is balanced in a fps, is when a faster ttk is present. Games like COD, BF, Titanfall and even Destiny are great examples. But if that is done in a halo game, it may as well not be called Halo hence why i think that H5 should have not Halo included in the name.

 

Why can't Halo stay the way it was and be different from all these other games? That is what made it an appealing shooter in my opinion.

 

I mean look at Gears. The game is on its 4th installment and it barely changed from the classic feel of the game. Its almost the complete opposite of  what we Hardcore Halo fans are getting. The Gears fans got a game that plays like True Gears out of the box and got MLG behind them.

All that we want, they are getting. I'm truly jealous. 

 

This is THE LAST HOPE i have for a true Halo game at this point

 

 

Cannot Trust that million dollar company (343) after 2 jokes of (what they believe) a Halo game is. Just don't put Halo in the name. Call it something else cause at this point you are just pushing away the people that loved and knew Halo for what it truly was.

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Out of the 8 people who played last night, none of them have posted their thoughts about no radar. That is an issue.

Well, I they haven't posted anything, maybe they don't mind no-radar?

 

I don't see the issue here

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Out of the 8 people who played last night, none of them have posted their thoughts about no radar. That is an issue.

 

 

We have an interview in progress, and a lot of them shared their thoughts on Twitter.

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