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CyReN

HCS Pro League Fall 2016 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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I wish this forum was competent enough to understand that people can have different opinions than you and that's ok. What's not okay is what I just wrote, and what most of our community writes when they post their opinion.

grats on the gold bar

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Careful, these artists are the reason games like Reach were even playable. We need our Forgers.

They don't care what I say, I don't care what they say. I'll continue to play the game, they'll continue to make maps. And life continues on normally. 

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They don't care what I say, I don't care what they say. I'll continue to play the game, they'll continue to make maps. And life continues on normally.

Sounds like one big happy family.
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Look. Not to be rude, but why is anyone here putting any weight into the value of what pros say? What's the famous ogre 2 quote. "No bloom no skill" or something along those lines? No one here is doubting their skill in the game but if you actually believe their opinion of competitive merit of different mechanics holds any more value than any other member here you're delusional. Even forgers in Halo have learned to not listen to pro feedback when invited to test maps, we ignore what they said and watch the theatre replay and pull data from that.

 

Anyone with an ounce of sense knows that radar plays better. Just like we all know that a faster killing utility weapon would go miles to fixing H5's horrendous sandbox and movement options. If the pros don't agree then okay. We lose a valuable mouthpiece to 343 but that's all that is, and it's not like 343 listens anyways. There is such a thing as a wrong opinion.

2grr never said that and he has no idea where the quite came fron
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Look. Not to be rude, but why is anyone here putting any weight into the value of what pros say? What's the famous ogre 2 quote. "No bloom no skill" or something along those lines?

http://teambeyond.net/forum/topic/12986-hcs-pro-league-summer-2016-teams-seeds-and-discussion%E2%80%8F/page-1060?do=findComment&comment=762206

why do I still see ppl say I said this?  never came out of my mouth unless sarcasm

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I think, especially at a time like this, it's important to remember that words read through text are far different than the way they could be spoken. Certain sarcasm or inflection doesn't translate well to the internet and can lead to unnecessary arguments. In the end, every single person here regardless of your opinion on anything really, just wants the best for Halo and trying to find common ground toe get this and accomplish it in H5 should be paramount to any small bickering. 

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I think, especially at a time like this, it's important to remember that words read through text are far different than the way they could be spoken. Certain sarcasm or inflection doesn't translate well to the internet and can lead to unnecessary arguments. In the end, every single person here regardless of your opinion on anything really, just wants the best for Halo and trying to find common ground toe get this and accomplish it in H5 should be paramount to any small bickering. 

just like spartan said

 

If you just constantly shit talk, you aren't helping ANYONE.

 

Or something like that

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There's also this thing called "perspective" and I don't think your argument really uses it. Halo isn't the subject here it's Halo 5. If I've learned anything it's the halo community isn't really optimistic and when talking about no radar i've seen maximum optimism. Not saying everyone is wrong or I don't agree but let's not ignore that people are believing what they want to believe right now without ignoring a lot of the negatives. 

 

I would say most people want radar in at least a limited capacity.  IMO, 343 may be able to literally enable the Advanced Sensors mod from Warzone, which hides you save for Sprint and Spartan Abilities.

              -EDIT: Didn't realize how stuck some people were on the "evolved" settings. There are too many uses for Spartan Abilities that make               this game better. We should try and adjust until the game plays well, not until it feels like "old Halo"

 

 

I would like to say the "you bad kids want no radar but will still be bad" argument is a bit misguided. Implying that someone has to physically excel at something to form a well thought out opinion is akin to telling someone they have no way of knowing if a movie is bad or not (looking at you The Last Airbender) unless they've directed one, or like telling someone they can't possibly have a good opinion on a music artist unless they've made albums as well.

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I would say most people want radar in at least a limited capacity.  IMO, 343 may be able to literally enable the Advanced Sensors mod from Warzone, which hides you save for Sprint and Spartan Abilities.

 

 

I would like to say the "you bad kids want no radar but will still be bad" argument is a bit misguided. Implying that someone has to physically excel at something to form a well thought out opinion is akin to telling someone they have no way of knowing if a movie is bad or not (looking at you The Last Airbender) unless they've directed one, or like telling someone they can't possibly have a good opinion on a music artist unless they've made albums as well.

I'm not saying that about everyone who is bad or isn't skilled. But there is a large group of people who act far and above their skill level and throw in comments about the settings and radar who need to just be reminded about where they actually stand in this non existent skillgap that we love to talk about.

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I'm not saying that about everyone who is bad or isn't skilled. But there is a large group of people who act far and above their skill level and throw in comments about the settings and radar who need to just be reminded about where they actually stand in this non existent skillgap that we love to talk about.

 

 

I haven't seen much about that kind of stuff here, is that more on Twitch and Twitter? 

 

I know personally I'm not that good and will never be that good at H5 unless we change the setting sot be anyone named Nick Patches gets to start with unlimited rockets and overshield, but from a spectators point of view I think H5 will be better to watch with no radar and other tweaks being made. Things might seem more chaotic right now, but that doesnt mean with proper testing, tweaks, and time to development new strats that things will always be like that.

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I'm not saying that about everyone who is bad or isn't skilled. But there is a large group of people who act far and above their skill level and throw in comments about the settings and radar who need to just be reminded about where they actually stand in this non existent skillgap that we love to talk about.

 

I get what you're saying. If someone thinks that they'd be magically better at Halo without radar, they're almost certainly foolish, because the same advantages they say they'd gain would be gained by the other team as well.

 

 

My stance is this- I'll likely be at least a step or two worse at Halo with radar removed or even modified, but I'd like to see it adjusted in some capacity. The invitational was not 13 games of fantastically smooth Halo, but there were plenty of moments where players were rewarded for heads up plays without being compromised by a red dot.

 

 

Thanks for listening dad.

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Might help if the evolved settings crew didn't shitpost with the force of 1,000 W0ulds every time someone says something not in line with your views. I've interacted with a few of you outside of this site and you seem like normal reasonable people, but on here you're just a salt mine. Half the time you (as a collective, not you specifically) come off like you would rather destroy the community that we have left than grow anything. And I agree with a lot of the settings that you propose.

 

I'm really curious where this comes from, because most of the "evolved settings crew," to my knowledge hardly does any such thing. The only reason I went off here was that those settings were specifically called out by people who very clearly don't know what they're talking about in that regard. I probably overreacted, but it's frankly annoying when very little actually productive has been done with regards to settings in H5 for MONTHS. Evolved was a productive endeavor, FOR the community, unlike shit-talking it. And, admittedly, it's not a nice follow-up to people arguing against the one significant improvement that might possibly be made to the competitive aspect of the game after months of basically nothing: removing radar from competitive. Meanwhile, The Coalition is openly discussing tuning major elements of their sandbox in GoW 4 after 2 weeks and has a community strongly in favor of the competitive settings. A stark contrast.

 

Frankly, I was fairly optimistic about Halo 5 at launch and wanted to see where it would go, yet 343 very clearly has no interest in addressing or even acknowledging contentious issues much at all. That optimism is gone (to the shock of all, I'm sure). I certainly would not suggest anything as drastic as Evolved for HCS, but at this point I don't see why I would really bother advocating for any improvements to the "Halo 5 formula" when this is where we are after a year.

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I'm not saying that about everyone who is bad or isn't skilled. But there is a large group of people who act far and above their skill level and throw in comments about the settings and radar who need to just be reminded about where they actually stand in this non existent skillgap that we love to talk about.

It's not all about dictating settings because of the skill level we want to play at.

 

It's also about wanting to watch the settings being played out.

I'm one of the people who want to WATCH no-radar matches because I simply enjoy watching a different level competitiveness opposed to radar on.

 

Now I understand your point on people acting like they know it all and everything, but there is still a large part of the community that just CRAVE the no-radar, simply because they want to watch it.

 

EDIT: Upon re-reading your post, I realized my response to your post made 0 sense.

Sorry.

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It's interesting to me that people are so against the idea of No Radar when it has hardly been tested at the highest level. There is such a thing as a bad opinion, when that opinion is formed without all the information. That's true for LoreGod99 as much it's true for pro players.

 

Obviously this isn't going to be a change that happens overnight, and the people advocating for that are just as misinformed, but at least those people realize No Radar gives less free information to a player and is how competitive Halo has always been played.a

 

Halo 5 is supposedly Halo. So this argument of "imagine if Halo wasn't Halo" means nothing. This is no different that removing bloom and sprint from Reach. If a prevailing argument then was "Imagine if Reach wasn't Halo" what would that mean? We'd have to stick with Bloom because it was core to bungie's design of Reach, regardless of what came before? No thank you.

 

To the evolved people: your setting might be god's gift to Halo, but if No Radar isn't happening over night evolved settings definitely aren't. And I mean that for HCS settings. This is the HCS thread. If your big goal is a classicesque playlist fine, but I really don't see how the discussion is relevant here. And I don't care who started it.

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I think we all can agree the caster needs to be 3 rounds to kill instead of 2. It's way too op now

Or they could just slow down the Caster's individual firing rate. I don't think the issue is exactly damage, but it dealing a grenade's worth of damage per round means it should have a super slow fire rate. So common for people to just insta-spam you down when they have the caster. Charged shot, though? Perf. 

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No radar is going to create other balancing issues as we've (potentially) already seen.

 

If we ever want to see a true Halo game again, Microsoft needs to take this path:

 

H6 - campaign and warzone

 

Halo: 'GO': free to play mp, ships with every xbox. Free dl for existing xbox. Copy the business model of CS: GO. Keep it classic halo. 

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Finally got to finish the broadcast, and I must say No Radar is instantly better to watch as a viewer. Outplays are much more exciting to watch and the lack of crouch camping is refreshing.

 

That said, there is a level of unpredictablity present in H5 w/ no radar that isn't present in other Halo games. Whether that's good or bad is subjective, but it is DIFFERENT, and to me, does seem to reward behavior that would have been considered wreckless in previous games. Perhaps a meta could evolve in a way that would minimize that effect but i doubt it- there are just so many ways to navigate these maps with these abilities.

 

I'd really like to see a Spartan Ability-only radar tested. It seems to me that the main argument against it is that it punishes Spartan ability use, but I don't believe that to be true. Spartan Ability are used plenty with full radar- in fact a lot of the successful ground pounds and thruster-ninjas we see are the result of radar.

 

I do think a spartan abilities would work better in this game if the risk-reward dynamic was more balanced. Full Radar Swings movement far into the 'risk' end of the spectrum. No radar swings it into the "reward" end. Maybe a Spartan-only radar would hit the sweet spot.

 

(Ofcourse not having a game based around Spartan abilities would alleviate the need for this discussion, but I don't think that's a realistic ambition at this time.)

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Got to watch half the games last night and finished the other half today. From a spectator standpoint things were definitely more enjoyable to watch. But at the same time you could see how hectic Halo 5 can be without radar.

 

Although in saying that, this was both teams 1st time playing Halo 5 4v4 without radar so that feeling of chaos might fade out with time as players get used to this change.

 

The only real way to see if this is the right direction for Halo is to have more play testing. Maybe 343 could make a no radar playlist and gather feedback from a wider audience.

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I'm not saying that about everyone who is bad or isn't skilled. But there is a large group of people who act far and above their skill level and throw in comments about the settings and radar who need to just be reminded about where they actually stand in this non existent skillgap that we love to talk about.

Mate it would have been way easier if you'd just said anyone who's not in the Pro League shouldn't make comments about the game, don't get why you're trying to save face.

 

"I'm not saying that about everyone who is bad or isn't skilled. But there is a large group of people who act far and above their skill level" ......wait what?....so you are saying that about everyone.

 

For future reference, having a higher skill level doesn't mean your opinion has more validity than someone that enjoys watching competitive halo.

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I just find it funny that pros can come in here and act as if everything being kept the same as it is, is the solution. How many viewers does the HCS get?  Abysmal numbers.  343 don't have anything to lose at this point, a massive settings change isn't going to reduce the numbers any more than they already are, and it's the viewers and casual players that make the game a success for people like @@LethuL so why not give them something better to watch? Because H5 as it currently plays even at the highest level is boring af compared to previous games. This isn't just an opinion, it's fact. H5 in it's current form is a bit of a joke. Hence the abysmal viewers and population,

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