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CyReN

HCS Pro League Fall 2016 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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Even the much-maligned radar is not the problem that people make it out to be, because the movement mechanics of H5 make its addition a much better premise. The fact that you can thrust slide across the map so quickly makes endless flanking followed by melee'ing a serious problem. As long as it has a short range, it acts more like a warning that you're about to be back-smacked. You can't really abuse it that hard to bait and switch people in practice, because the game is too fast paced. It's just there to ensure that you can't flank people and back-smack them unless you massively slow yourself down and crouch behind, which gives that person's mind a second or two extra to think and realize that they should check their six. I personally think that this is a useful, balancing adjustment. Without it, the burden to constantly spin around and do 360s is too high, and the reward to fly out to the flanks is too great.

 

Just a reminder that I posted this 4 days ago and got endless pushback and namecalling, and people saying this is ridiculous. Now that we've actually seen the exhibition match and heard the pros weigh in, public opinion seems to have changed. If I was going to gloat about 'I told you so', this would be the time to do it. So here's my thoughts:

 

 

It needs more testing.

 

 

 

Way more. One series does not a trend make. We need to see at least 10 series played before the meta has settled enough that it's clear there's an inherent benefit or detriment to removing radar. Game balance is complicated, and this series was pathological in the sense that so many people were watching it and hoping to get a certain answer. Get teams to run 10 scrims on it and then we can start to cast judgment. 

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If the biggest fears with No Radar are Spartan Charge and Ground Pound, why not remove them? One is an outright bad mechanic and the other is poorly implemented with or without radar. Seems like a no brainier to me.

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try jumping top bridge from pit on fathom and tell me you cant miss jumps. this community seems to enjoy nitpicking and whining a lot.

 

Tell me about it. Or bottom center to bridge on Regret. Or Yard to top yellow on Plaza. Or from window to window on Coliseum. Or from court to top center on Fathom by thrusting off the box. Or from Red BR up to Red street on Eden. Hell, from Red gen up to Red Nest on Eden. 

 

 

Jumps that would be hard with different physics are easy now. Who fucking cares? There's an equivalent number of jumps that are just tall / far enough to clamber to it.

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2 Boltshot bursts + 1 BR shot.

 

Also it FORCES thruster usage in a gun battle.

 

 

Boltshot isn't getting buffed any time soon.

I like it being used. Adds diversity to the gun selection. I'd loved to see the storm rifle replaced with the needler. Would that break map balance? 

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I am of the opinion that whatever the pros decide, we should go with (since they are the ones playing it). I understand the argument that viewership is important and the viewer's opinion should matter, but we aren't the ones directly affected by the outcome of the change.

 

I think we all need to remember that the only reason there us a pro league is because of the community and viewership. This is true of every sport. We as fans pour in our time and money so our opinion does matter. This is what irrates me the most. Without us as a community, where would competitive halo be? Now what we actually want to see/play seems to be ignored and then seemingly mocked when tested.

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I honestly wish they kept everything and just removed sprint+Spartan charge and then raised movement speed to 115℅. All the other abilities don't massively hurt the game imo. Every other fps has sprint, why can't halo be unique?

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I honestly wish they kept everything and just removed sprint+Spartan charge and then raised movement speed to 115℅. All the other abilities don't massively hurt the game imo. Every other fps has sprint, why can't halo be unique?

Tbh I'd be fine with this for competitive settings. 

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i like spartan charge, ground pound, thrust, clamber and SPRINT in this game because it allows for some crazy creative plays that is really enjoyable for me to watch and to try and attempt. Ryanoob and of course frosty come to mind when taking all those abilities to the next level and the best part for me is i know there is still much more room for undiscovered/creative plays and room to further evolve the meta. I, like every one else, loved the old days and how much more simpler and enjoyable halo was but i just wanted to say why i personally like all the new additions to the halo franchise and hope the abilities mentioned above do not get taken out. 

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Tbh I'd be fine with this for competitive settings.

They need to do the above, or have radar be spartan ability only at 25m. Either works for me.

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So in H5 when creating a custom game type you obviously can turn off radar right?  So is there an ability to tweak movement speed, thrust, clamor, or spartan charge?

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So in H5 when creating a custom game type you obviously can turn off radar right?  So is there an ability to tweak movement speed, thrust, clamor, or spartan charge?

 

You can turn off/modify all of those IIRC. There was actually a lot of talk about "Reclaimer Settings" in the general H5 discussion a few months ago. Cooper (PBUH) and others had a discord going and all that. They were basically no spartan abilities + increased movement speed and jump height, I think? 

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You can turn off/modify all of those IIRC. There was actually a lot of talk about "Reclaimer Settings" in the general H5 discussion a few months ago. Cooper (PBUH) and others had a discord going and all that. They were basically no spartan abilities + increased movement speed and jump height, I think? 

 

Yep. Halo 5: Evolved settings. 4sk Magnum, 120% BMS, 130% forward/strafe acceleration, 120% jump height with 110% gravity, 25M motion sensor in FFA (disabled in everything else), all gimmicks disabled. Unfortunately, it doesn't address the fundamental problem that H5 feels bad to play (especially the trash aiming system), but it does demonstrate that you can make a version of H5 that actually resembles a Halo game using only the custom game settings. There are still people in the Discord who like to play when they can get a full lobby going.

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You can turn off/modify all of those IIRC. There was actually a lot of talk about "Reclaimer Settings" in the general H5 discussion a few months ago. Cooper (PBUH) and others had a discord going and all that. They were basically no spartan abilities + increased movement speed and jump height, I think?

It's still going. It's called evolved settings. We still have a very active discord.

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Just an FYI, per halodatahive, comparing auto and precision kills by percentage showed no real difference from when these 2 teams last scrimmed.

 

e9EEDmr.png

 

Also, just sort of threw this together using data from halo5arena.com and halodatahive;

 

zcMVDJX.png

 

Some data comparing Truth Slayer. 1 match of no radar and another with radar (from a scrim Oct 17th).

Also was comparing to when they faced in Pro League but that was earlier with Eco in place of VicX. Not much diff either.

 

I'd like to see long term data.

The difference in power weapon kills is really interesting. It seems to suggest that their power is diminished with no radar, my theory being that a lot of power weapons rely on camping or at least being equally aware of your opponent to be as effective as possible. It lets players sneak up and take power items more which possibly diminishes snowballing.

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Just throwing this out there do you think a spotting system similar to Gears could work in Halo 5 to help make movement more predictable?

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In a practical world

  • Universal Settings
  • Remove Radar
  • Nerf Slide Boosting (primary issue)
  • Nerf Clamber (secondary issue, not as problematic)
  • Tune automatic weapons
  • Rebalance maps

 

In a perfect world:

  • All of the above + Sprint removed

 

 

I must admit, I originally thought universal settings was a good idea, but to be honest I don't think it matters anymore. Halo has never had universal settings and that never stopped it form growing 1-3. If anything I think Universal settings just holds it back from its true potential. 

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Neighbor was in a Twitch chat a few nights ago. When asked about no radar he said that Coli is the "hardest" map to play with no radar on. He also said that The Rig probably plays the best. Just food for thought since I saw same people talking about Coliseum playing bad with no Radar. 

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Everything right now is bad imo. Servers/weapon layouts on maps, spawns etc etc. Which is why i think this has become such a big issue. I get where people are coming from though.

Forget radar. Make a post about what layouts you would like

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We had no sound against epsilon at Worlds, and even with Radar I was getting stealth bombed and spartan charged with no hope. No Radar would quickly bring in a lot more usage in them in my opinion. Also guys... I would like to say 1 thing to people now saying we have to take out sprint..... think of getting around these maps with no sprint. Think about it? the speed at getting around, the lack of jumps you could do... that's like cutting half the game out.

Which is why you increase base movement speed to accommodate these stretched out maps. We've been playing these maps without sprint for months in Evolved settings.

 

And removing all the jumps is a good thing because it cuts down on the unpredictability which "requires" radar to be turned on.

 

It's such a flawed concept to give players all of these ridiculous abilities in order to empower them to outplay opponents, realize they've gone way too far and turned the game into a giant mess, and thus introduce radar to mitigate this overpowerment and make the abilities effectively less useful for outplay during combat and as another side effect creates dumb looking gameplay in cqc and also promotes more camping and unskilled automatic usage.

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Honestly lethul don't you want halo to be bigger and less of a joke in the greater gaming community? Long run you'll make more money. More pros should be fighting for changes that will create more exciting skilled gameplay that more people will watch such as no sprint, no radar, lower bullet magnetism, a stronger utility weapon, etc. Halo used to be king on its own merit and now it's just a generic shooter kept alive by the devs throwing money at it.

 

You should also fight for an FOV slider so you're not feeling boxed in... Halo 5s low fov makes the no radar much worse in terms of unpredictability. You can die through no fault of your own except not constantly turning your head back and forth due to your low fov.

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