Jump to content
CyReN

HCS Pro League Fall 2016 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

Recommended Posts

It's a lot to hope that it will return to those days. However, the Halo competitive scene is growing, and I do think we're going to continue to make forward progress.

 

 

I agree, but I don't see any major changes happening with H5, with it already being a year old. At the very least, no large changes would be made until after HWC 2017. I think we're stuck where we're at until H6 unfortunately :/

 

 

#intel

 

MultiQuote bro.

Share this post


Link to post

I agree, but I don't see any major changes happening with H5, with it already being a year old. At the very least, no large changes would be made until after HWC 2017. I think we're stuck where we're at until H6 unfortunately :/

 

 

A lot of people keep saying this but has H6 even been announced formally? Safe to say we'll have H5 for all of next year at the very least, which based on this year could be another two seasons. 

 

Also, I don't think anyone expects these changes until after December and this seasons finals, other than maybe disabling Stasis.

  • Upvote (+1) 1
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Side tangent, I disagree with the assumption that removing radar will put off everyone not involved/interested in the comp scene. It seems to be the default assumption from everyone, that a "casual" player will see no radar (with everything else the same) and instantly say "fuck this shit, its too different". To keep things simple and short, for all intent and purposes no radar simply makes it harder, putting more emphasis on teamwork, communication and coordination. I don't see why this can't be their first line of thinking. They could be put off with it instantly or want nothing to do with it after trying it, sure, thats fine but I think its just as easy that they'd simply think its harder too. I just don't get why the assumption is that their initial reception of it will be to instantly dismiss it.

 

I think this is a justified perspective and it's OK to have something be more challenging for the player.

 

I only say this because of how competitive playlists have performed in the past (from an outsiders perspective since I have no real "data" to back up this claim). When I played H3 and looked at the MLG playlist numbers they were usually in the 2-3 thousand range and I could make a ton of assumptions but I think the change in settings, and not just radar, have a lot to do with it. It is a fundamentally harder game to play and for a console audience which largely skews casual I would imagine they won't be looking for that kind of a challenge. Again, I'm making assumptions based on anecdotal evidence but it's worth thinking about. 

 

Also, no worries dude! I don't think you were coming off brash or anything. :D

  • Upvote (+1) 3
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

To be fair though, we've tested No-Radar.... since Combat Evolved. You can't just come here and tell me Radar is good just because.

 

The argument I'm reading lately which I agree to some extent is that Radar could be beneficial for Halo 5 due to the general problems that the game has, but there are more Cons than Pros. You can't just add slide and thruster pack out of nowhere and then add Radar while defending it saying: "The game has these Spartan Abilities so we need Radar to help people see" 

 

EDIT: I really don't wanna talk about settings that much, it has its own thread; HOWEVER, I'd love to see some serious changes and some acknowledgment from the developers. I strongly believe that No-Radar (and other Abilities turned off) would bring a very interesting... shift, in Halo 5's competitive gameplay. It'd make the matches way more interesting, imo.

If you take all this away, then what is left to differentiate Competitive Halo 5 with all the other previous games? 

Share this post


Link to post

 

 

When you say community, who would you actually put in charge of it?

 

Because back when Ghostayame was running it, the debates were just as bad as what we have now (obviously minus radar and stuff).

....Team Beyond? Besides, I don't think anyone thinks that'll end all debate. What you just described is already better than what we have, since right now we do have to debate "radar and stuff"
Team Beyond as in @@CyReN and @@Saucey?

 

Team Beyond as in @@Ugug and @@Cooper?

I mean, it was more of a throwaway suggestion before my actual point than anything but c'mon, do Ugug and Cooper run the Team Beyond tournaments? my mistake I suppose, I'll make sure to explicitly clarify the obvious next time

Share this post


Link to post

After playing H3 MLG I didnt want to play anything else because a win in the MLG playlist felt a whole lot sweeter than any other playlist.

  • Upvote (+1) 4

Share this post


Link to post

It may not be what has been around in competitive Halo but Radar has been in the most popular playlists of each respective online Halo game since launch - it defines the preferred mass experience.

 

The competitive community have not been unwilling bystanders in the process, the idea of a unified experience has been popular here (until the last few months) in an attempt to a) entice a larger comp audience and b) work on the base level settings from the inside. There is no need for acknowledgement, the developer and the community were working along the same path with different expectations. It's not suddenly a revelation that the comp community in general don't like Radar / automatics / Sprint / AAs etc, just that it was tolerated for the trade off.

 

OK so the comp community has had enough with the trade off and now wants different settings, lets not act like 343 should suddenly start 'acknowledging' (apologizing) or even instantly do a U-turn.

 

 

This is certainly true, but it's been nearly a year since H5 has been released and the willingness of this community to work on base level settings has been deteriorating ever since. Things like Riptide, Assault, Torque, Tyrant have made this relationship sour. It's certainly not suddenly the competitive community wants it's own settings, in fact no radar has pretty much been discussed from the beginning. 

 

I think most people just realize the "casual" and "competitive" can't coexist in this Halo at least, so why keep trying. Scorch the Earth after this season ends and we can have next year be similar to 2010 in H3 or 2007 in H2, optimal settings and fantastic competition. 

Share this post


Link to post

Okay, so now I see why you guys block Reiku.

 

I googled "Reiku + Waypoint," read one of his posts (I hope to god it was one of his more extreme, although word of mouth suggests it's closer to the norm), and almost cried at how dumb one person can be. To be fair, on this particular post, everyone shat on him for breathing.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

I think this is a justified perspective and it's OK to have something be more challenging for the player.

 

I only say this because of how competitive playlists have performed in the past (from an outsiders perspective since I have no real "data" to back up this claim). When I played H3 and looked at the MLG playlist numbers they were usually in the 2-3 thousand range and I could make a ton of assumptions but I think the change in settings, and not just radar, have a lot to do with it.

 

Yeah, a lot more of the game was changed in the past not just radar. Damage, movement speed, jump height and more.

 

With Halo 5 this isn't the case and this is where the push for "dev support" and "universal settings" come in. Although I think 343 is going about it the wrong way. Also the term universal gets misunderstood I think because of how many different gamemodes Halo has, its more streamlined. FFA, 2v2, 4v4, 8v8 all play different from each other and require different things, so for example using 4v4 settings/maps etc in FFA probably wouldn't go over too well.

 

But in in anycase if testing shows that changing certain small things around improve a gametype or map in a certain setting, should it not be rolled out everywhere else applicable in that setting? To "streamline" it?

Share this post


Link to post

I googled "Reiku + Waypoint," read one of his posts (I hope to god it was one of his more extreme, although word of mouth suggests it's closer to the norm), and almost cried at how dumb one person can be. To be fair, on this particular post, everyone shat on him for breathing.

 

I stumbled on his ALT account on Reddit a while ago.  He tries to play both sides of the field.  He follows all the pros and orgs and is friendly with them.  Then turns around and shit talks competitive Halo on the alt account.  Its bizarre as fuck.

Share this post


Link to post

Really odd that ALG picked up Str8 Sick and didn't even run with Renegade (or anyone else).

 

That doesn't seem wise imo

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

snip

what?

 

Did you really type that all out just to use the #adapt argument?

 

Is this a joke? Am I on punked? Where Ashton at?

  • Upvote (+1) 10
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

what?

 

Did you really type that all out just to use the #adapt argument?

 

Is this a joke? Am I on punked? Where Ashton at?

Wow. Typical response from a guy that can't #adapt. Don't you know that the only people that advocate for change are the people that suck at the game. Come on everybody knows this.
  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

(Lots of said stuff)

 

I disagree with your assertions, but respect your sentiment that Halo 5 out of box is so, so, far ahead of what we've had in the past.

  • Upvote (+1) 6

Share this post


Link to post

what?

 

Did you really type that all out just to use the #adapt argument?

 

Is this a joke? Am I on punked? Where Ashton at?

 

I've since removed that line since I knew people like you would be #triggered, but I think it follows perfectly clearly.

 

Here's the reasoning:

1. The game is already very competitive

2. But people are still asking for large chances

3. Those changes are conveniently all reversions to settings that are familiar, but there's no first-principle reason to think they'd actually be better

4. It's likely that the reason they're asking for changes is related to them not enjoying the newness of the game, as opposed to non-competitiveness, which we've already established is quite high.

 

 

Even if you disagree with 3->4, can anybody tell me straight-faced that this reasoning is incomprehensible?

  • Upvote (+1) 2
  • Downvote (-1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

Great to see @@GoldenboyFTW and @@SnakeBite joining the conversation.  

 

You know, I have seen products under development that accept feedback for suggested features and bug fixes be categorize by level of importance (and voted on by the community).  

 

i.e.

 

1. Fixing Servers

2. Testing the removal of Radar

3. Rebalancing Pistol

4. Sniper Hitboxes

5. Spinter nades

 

etc. you get my point

 

Companies that do this show they care and devote resources to address the issues in question following this priority.  It would be cool if 343 would consider showing us what they are listening to, how they are responding, and in what order.  

 

At the end of the day, we want to see a very skill intensive FPS eSport that showcases true skill, not just fast twitch shots and use of exploits and imbalances.  We want to see a game that rewards people who play smart and punishes mistakes.  We wanna see the eSport that we all grew to love over the years showcase just what makes it a great game, what truely makes it Halo.

 

#MakeHaloGreatAgain

Share this post


Link to post

Has 343 stated the Team Arena playlist is essentially the HCS playlist? or whats the deal with this subject?

Share this post


Link to post

We don't need to change the whole Halo 5 sandbox we only need a playlist that mirrors the ideal settings Pros want to play in HCS and that's it.

Share this post


Link to post

Imagine if we had a Halo game where they refined the previous game instead of changing everything.

People would still bitch about being Halo 3.5 and not a new game.

Share this post


Link to post

Imagine if we had a Halo game where they refined the previous game instead of changing everything.

 

We'd likely have Halo 2, except "fixed" to disinclude doubleshots, BXR, wallshooting, and other ... glitches.

 

 

I think the breath of fresh air can be a good thing because it allows a new meta to walk around and stretch. The race for glitches and exploits is a big part of what makes the game fun. The troubles arise when the game is balanced poorly. Being new and different can be a good thing though, everything else being equal.

 

Of course, some people still play CE 2's on the same fucking 5 maps, so maybe that concept is a tough sell for some.

 

EDIT: To be clear, I'm criticizing the same 5 maps aspect, not CE. CE 2's is the best Halo experience there has ever been or ever will be, people who still play competitively are my heroes.

  • Upvote (+1) 2
  • Downvote (-1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

I've since removed that line since I knew people like you would be #triggered, but I think it follows perfectly clearly.

 

Here's the reasoning:

1. The game is already very competitive

2. But people are still asking for large chances

3. Those changes are conveniently all reversions to settings that are familiar, but there's no first-principle reason to think they'd actually be better

4. It's likely that the reason they're asking for changes is related to them not enjoying the newness of the game, as opposed to non-competitiveness, which we've already established is quite high.

 

 

Even if you disagree with 3->4, can anybody tell me straight-faced that this reasoning is incomprehensible?

1) Is VERY debatable in itself.

 

3/4) Are you really saying that people are asking for changes based on familiarity? Really? How are super powerful autos competitively balanced? How is a radar in the corner of your screen that gives you FREE INFORMATION better than having to see people yourself? You want to know why these changes people are asking for look so "familiar"? Because it is what Halo HAS ALWAYS DONE AND IT MADE THE GAME SUCCESSFUL. Guess what these changes also did? Improve the competitive integrity of the game. You cannot sit here and use that bullshit excuse of thinking people only want H5 to copy other halos. We just want a game that limits the amount of bullshit in a competitive environment.

 

And please stop saying the game is VERY competitive. There is so much wrong with the game that could be fixed and make it EVEN MORE competitive. Why would any "conpetitive" players be against a higher skill gap? Are they scared they won't do as well? Great "competitive" mindset.

  • Upvote (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use & Privacy Policy.