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HCS Pro League Fall 2016 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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Real talk @@TheSimms and @@Mikwen are the GOATs

 

Personally not a fan of some of the extreme "Drop ESL entirely" idea some have said here, but its obvious we need somebody more skilled in doing open events, and we HAD THAT FOR NEAR 10 YEARS. That's MLG boys.

 

The only way you can grow out a game and make people interested is making it accessible both in person and online; both of which are in a slump since online has issues a fucking plenty nowadays with the servers and people saying the aiming changes depending on your connection, and in person has suffered the greatest with a lack of actual LAN for home-made tournies and barely any open LANs from ESL or 343.

 

These are important for the future of Halo. We're coming out of a 5 year slump; the name "Halo" doesn't create competitive viewers like it used to. The scene was grown for love of the game and events that allowed people who loved the game to attend and get their foot in the door. Without Open LANs and better management of said LANs, we're gonna still be stuck in the rut we've been in for a long time.

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As optimistic as everyone is sounding about all of this "change", I really don't see much happening. Pros and players have been talking about making a stand for many months now, trying to improve Halo competitive. I'm a huge fan of the game, I just think it might be too late into H5 to see any significant change with regards to viewership. The population is way down, and with GoW, Titanfall 2, Battlefield 1 and CoD coming out, the population is only going to plummet more. The best they can do is positively set up for the future and H6. But then again, players and pros have been complaining about settings for a long time in H5 and MINIMAL changes have been made and almost none of the biggest complaints have been addressed such as autos, theater mode and radar, so it's hard to expect 343 to do anything this time around. They seem to be content with the product they've created.

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Snip

I can't imagine it's fun to jump on the forums after working hard all day on your event and see criticism on every post. But you just gave an incredible response to all of it.

 

For what it's worth, the Optic/nV series I think you did a great job. I tweeted to you after it talking about the interview and how I thought it was really well done, but your casting in general with Bravo that game I thought was really good. Try to watch the interruptions a bit, and you'll be straight  :cash:

 

Thanks for the event, I've enjoyed watching it, even with the issues.

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As optimistic as everyone is sounding about all of this "change", I really don't see much happening. Pros and players have been talking about making a stand for many months now, trying to improve Halo competitive. I'm a huge fan of the game, I just think it might be too late into H5 to see any significant change with regards to viewership. The population is way down, and with GoW, Titanfall 2, Battlefield 1 and CoD coming out, the population is only going to plummet more. The best they can do is positively set up for the future and H6. But then again, players and pros have been complaining about settings for a long time in H5 and MINIMAL changes have been made and almost none of the biggest complaints have been addressed such as autos, theater mode and radar, so it's hard to expect 343 to do anything this time around. They seem to be content with the product they've created.

unfortunately, pros have not been united about the need to remove radar and autos. You might see something change if they were.

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Out of curiosity, what are everyone's desires for setting changes if this were to happen? (No radar and reduced autos being the most obvious choices)

 

1) A map with 2 Snipers

2) Less SMGs/Storm Rifles.  We know they're okay with putting Warzone items on the map now, so maybe they could use some of the Warzone ARs instead?

3) Mercy

4) Remove Stasis.

5) Bring back Empire TS, without autos or even OS.

6) Bring back Empire CTF, without OS.

7) Fix Fathom weapons/geometry to reduce stalemates

8) Rebalance Truth to reduce snowballs

9) Fix Flag OT rules

 

 

 

Replying to Simms in bold in-quote

 

Had a good chat with my viewers yesterday about this and I've spent time in the past writing it down and designing what I think would make this game one of the best halos ever competition wise, my personal perfect Arena settings are the following.

 

- no radar. Needs to go 100% to allow H5 to play at it's designed competitive speed.

Yes please.

- reduced autos on map or reduce the auto ammo. Help combat camping and allow for more 1v1 engagements and gunskill battles.

- no AR secondary or an AR damage nerf with reduced ammo. It's not a utility weapon at present, it's a full on secondary.

Nerfing the AR's DAMAGE is not the route to take (if the problem is "it kills faster than the Magnum" then it's an issue of the Magnum not being strong enough, not the AR being too strong -- however, the AR does need a nerf in its effectiveness, but the better method to do that is to increase the rate at which it blooms, so outside of super close ranges, players need to reset their reticule faster/more often / rapid-tap their trigger in order to get the desired accuracy.  Players who SOLELY spray should actually miss shots.  Of course, a consistent recoil/spray pattern would be even more preferred, just not the CSGO form where it's not reflected on screen and is on players to memorize, because that too is bad game design, due to lack of clarity.)

- no SPNKR rockets, just H5 ones only please. Don't fix what's not broken, SPNKRs are slow and sluggish.

SPNKR rockets aren't as forgiving as the H5 ones in terms of giving kills on splash damage.

- shotgun or scatter 20 second increased respawn timer. Would allow for less in game abuse by 1 team.

Good.

- remove hit markers. Nades are now been used as an item to find people, not kill them.

- remove Spartan charge. (open to keeping it tbh) Just personally find it a get out of jail free card for sprinting/been unaware.

Spartan Charge is cheesy for melees but it improves the mobility skill gap by giving players non-thruster movement options and also ways to gather information upon entering a room (by abusing SC's 3rd person).

- stop silly nade abuse/yolo throwing. Lower the amount of nades a player can carry or remove some from map, way too many free nade kills.

Stop trying to run backwards from grenades so you stop dying to them :)

 

But no seriously nerf Splinters.

- keep magnum start. As a H2 boy I love the BR but my god it hits so hard and would be too OP and not fun.

- Add Mercy as a slayer map. Open to looking at Tyrant and testing for slayer with better weapon placements. (Also keen to see OG oddball and assault looked at but needs to be OG style/settings)

Mercy TS and Strongholds.

- fix the free killing sniper. Too long has this gun been OP, no scopes no longer take skill, they are a given :(.

The non-scoped aim assist for Sniper just needs to be toned down -- I've offered an alternate solution of adding in a map or two with the H2 Beam Rifle -- if you try it out on Mercy, you'll see.  Swiping with a Sniper Rifle, the reticule slows down tremendously over a player's body/head, but using the Beam Rifle, there is almost no slowdown unless you are in scope.

- look at weapons on map and why. (Personally hate fuel rod on Truth) I like the smg, I hate the storm rifle. Would happily keep the smg and bin off the latter. Edit - this extends to things like suppressors, stuff like this I find weird/unused/strange and these kind of map filler weapons I think would be easily swapped out and replaced by AR if it wasn't a secondary.

 

I'm curious why people like the SMG over the Storm Rifle -- both have similar kill speeds, but the Storm Rifle is a projectile.  The main thing that separates the two is the Storm Rifle's much, much higher aim assist/magnetism and the fact that the SMG actually blooms/spreads a LOT unlike the AR.  If the tracking/aim assist were reduced on the Storm Rifle, it would easily be the more skillful weapon.

 

Changing things up like the rockets H5 rockets for H2A version and normal SMG for a silenced version just confuses me as to why. I'm a huge fan of 'don't fix what's not broke' but fail to see what was broke about these 2 weapons previous? Halo 5 has evolved into what can be an amazing game and one of the best by far, would love to see a test list after fall season with the above changes implement for community feedback is possible please? @@Deez @@Sal1ent

 

 

Because they are trying to force a meta shift rather than letting it grow and change naturally. A lot of it honestly seems like they just take a to nof bad ideas, throw it at a wall and pray that it sticks. What other reasoning would you take for Binary Rifles on Coliseum, for example?

 

For some of the changes 343/Quinn are making to these maps, I think it's looking to fill a niche / satisfy a demand that's not currently covered in map layouts.

 

We have no long range power weapon other than the UNSC Sniper.  He wanted a Two-Sniper map, but 24 Sniper Bullets would be way too much, so he tried half that, with 2 6-shot Binaries.  It satisfies a need for alternate long range AND a two-Sniper map.  The heart behind the change was good.  But everyone refused to try it because "The Binary is too easy" (nevermind that it's not an instant kill and you can actually get out of the damage before it kills you if you react/thrust quickly enough).

 

The Silenced variants over the non-silenced is just an introduction of something not included in the base set.  It's just additional flair.

 

The Truth changes are clearly an attempt to give us a map where all the power is in top control -- but, as a result, it killed Slayer on the map as players coming off spawn are not equipped with methods to fight back.

 

 

 

Right now, we're missing two major things:

A 2-Sniper map

An Amplified (a very small, fast-paced, no power weapons TS game)

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1) A map with 2 Snipers

2) Less SMGs/Storm Rifles.  We know they're okay with putting Warzone items on the map now, so maybe they could use some of the Warzone ARs instead?

Map with 2 snipers plz. Wasnt there some poll that Bravo or the halo twitter did asking if people liked Narrows or Pit better? Could be hinting at something.

 

I've been saying for a while the best balance for the storm rifle is to place it on tier 2 timers with the shotgun/scattershot. It's good enough to be a power weapon.

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Viva la revolucion??? Someone photoshop lethuls face onto a Che Guevara Tee

SLcUPmu.png?1

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This isn't only about radar. There were many more points that would make this game both more fun to play and watch. Nobody said it would magicaly make it top 5 on twitch. Why do you even bother to reply man.

Because I'm sick of seeing the posts about halo being.more respectable in comparison to other eSports. The damage to halo is irreparable unless there's a marketing shift to make it the mainstream Xbox title again, and that has nothing to do with comp settings.
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In an ideal world ESL would only be running Pro League/Season Finals but let MLG run open events which are obviously HCS sanctioned and have closed servers but I think the chances of that happening are kinda low.

That's the exact setup CoD has, so there is precedent for that kind of cooperation. But I doubt it would happen for Halo.

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A little OT, but why is GoW 4's Twitch numbers so low right now? Game is officially released Tuesday, but if you spent the $100 for the collector's edition or w/e, you can play it 4 days early. So it's pretty much "out" now at this point. Being brand new, id expect better numbers. Any suggestions why? I was really intrigued about their competitive potential

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A little OT, but why is GoW 4's Twitch numbers so low right now? Game is officially released Tuesday, but if you spent the $100 for the collector's edition or w/e, you can play it 4 days early. So it's pretty much "out" now at this point. Being brand new, id expect better numbers. Any suggestions why? I was really intrigued about their competitive potential

Because it's not a popular game

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Great to see that that not only do the fans want MLG back to do open events, but now the pros are being vocal for it too.

 

Meanwhile at 343i...

 

 

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Remember when Worlds was first announced and 343 released that graphic showing that they were partnering with MLG, ESL, Twitch, and YT gaming? That graphic created a TON of hype on these forums. Not because of ESL, not because of twitch, not because of YouTube. Everyone got excited when they saw that MLG would be working with Halo again. Little did we know that they(and we) would be getting the shit end of the stick from 343. It's absolutely ludicrous to actually think that 343 believes that not partnering with MLG is the best move. ESL can still run their pro league, and MLG can run the "Pro Circuit" of open tournaments like the good old days. There has to be some underlying hatred that someone at 343 has towards MLG. That's the only logical explanation.

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This one though

 

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I will gladly wear one of them to mu politics lectures declaring my ideology is Lethul and Lethul only.

 

A little OT, but why is GoW 4's Twitch numbers so low right now? Game is officially released Tuesday, but if you spent the $100 for the collector's edition or w/e, you can play it 4 days early. So it's pretty much "out" now at this point. Being brand new, id expect better numbers. Any suggestions why? I was really intrigued about their competitive potential

Its a great game and game series dont get me wrong, but GoW isnt as popular as we and others have made it out to be. As much as I love it and the competitive scene, their MLG competition a couple of months back averaged about 6k viewers (max I reckon). The big $1 million is their chance to get Gears back to the top again, and to be fair I hope they do well.

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A little OT, but why is GoW 4's Twitch numbers so low right now? Game is officially released Tuesday, but if you spent the $100 for the collector's edition or w/e, you can play it 4 days early. So it's pretty much "out" now at this point. Being brand new, id expect better numbers. Any suggestions why? I was really intrigued about their competitive potential

Gears has been and always will be the smaller brother to Halo. Even though they are doing everything right, people still have to actually want to be a part of it. I'm sure it'll pick up after the invitational. Plus OpTic juice :simms:

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A little OT, but why is GoW 4's Twitch numbers so low right now? Game is officially released Tuesday, but if you spent the $100 for the collector's edition or w/e, you can play it 4 days early. So it's pretty much "out" now at this point. Being brand new, id expect better numbers. Any suggestions why? I was really intrigued about their competitive potential

I mean, I don't want to watch people spoil the SP. And I'm interested in competitive MP, but not in watching randoms play matchmaking. So that's why i haven't viewed it yet.

 

What kind of viewership do you think a game in Gears situation should pull?

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I mean, I don't want to watch people spoil the SP. And I'm interested in competitive MP, but not in watching randoms play matchmaking. So that's why i haven't viewed it yet.

 

What kind of viewership do you think a game in Gears situation should pull?

20k easily.

 

Jk. Idk, maybe 10,000 or so. I'm being super optimistic though.

 

On another note, I'd love the pros to unite and make a stand, but quite honestly more recently, they have been needy and somewhat lazy with regards to their "careers"

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