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HCS Pro League Fall 2016 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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First post in quite a while but I want to give my opinion on this, even though it will make no difference in the grant scheme of things.

 

I find it really hard to believe most (everyone?) over there thinks the core settings right now are ideal. It's almost a no-brainer that no radar and no automatics will improve gameplay significantly.

 

To this day I don't know why they traditionally deemed "nooby" stuff is still in competitive settings, has an explanation ever been given as to why the team chose to keep the "nooby" stuff in when it has been stripped out of every single other 4v4 halo for competitive settings?

 

When it comes to halo and 343 it feels like there is always some stipulation that comes with your Halo games - almost like a "two steps forward one step back" kind of deal. The one step back in halo 5, for me at least, is the radar and the automatic starts/pickups.

 

I hope no radar/automatics is really given a fair chance at the office when testing. Please don't stick to the "keep the settings as close to vanilla as possible" rule. Make the competitive settings the vanilla settings.

 

Thanks for taking the time to reply here.

 

Edit; just saw the replies to others, answered some of my questions.

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Yeah, I'd like to see more transparency here, including takeaways from these council meetings. Obviously we won't be able to share everything that is discussed, there will always be confidential stuff that can't be disclosed until later, but whenever there is a decision or a key point of discussion it would be great to share this with the broader competitive community so people have insight into what is being talked about and how/why decisions are being made. 

 

 

PowerPoints Presentations are appreciated.

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Just catching up and wanted to respond to a post from a couple of days ago...

 

 

Will you guys do similar things for EU in the future? or are we too nooby for you NA guys  :kappa:

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We definitely talked about it (I may have been the one who brought it up) and there wasn't agreement amongst the participants that this would be a positive change. And to be fair, the pros haven't had a chance to play H5 extensively with radar off so they couldn't be confident it would work with the core mechanics of H5. This was a debate we had internally w/ pro team before the game's release and ultimately decided that the heightened mobility made players too hard to track without it, especially in objective games.

 

The biggest problem with radar in the current game is how it limits the effectiveness of flanking. We talked about some potential solutions for future. I also asked the pros to spend some time scrimming without radar to see what they think of the way it plays in different modes/maps so we can revisit the discussion.

H5 has done a great job with audio queues. Emphasizing on specific movements like thrust, shield regen, slide, etc...

 

Would any of these be enhanced or added if radar were to be taken out? I'm sure it's hard to balance awareness when you have a lot going on

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the outcry of radar removal (this is just one example of possible setting change) from many people in the community does not mean much unless the pros themselves band together and all express agreement that it shouldn't be there. So far this has not happened once for any major setting changes. The only time I have seen this happens is when 343/esl have tried to input the dlc maps/assault into competitive.

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Thanks for the insight @@Sal1ent ! I can't state how much I appreciate you posting here.

 

 

Also, on the topic of radar... the pro players have been loud and against many parts of the game (map settings, breakout) but never Radar.

 

The timing. Just last night Spartan was saying on stream that radar is fine because of how fast the game plays. It doesn't bother him much at all. He also said the AR is usually pretty situational, and is fine the way it is as well. Storm rifle still OP though

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Just catching up and wanted to respond to a post from a couple of days ago...

 

 

None of this stuff is "off the table" for HCS.

 

We are open to all feedback and looking to have the teams and pros play a more active role in helping shape the future of the sport. We just held the first of what will be a regular series of player council meetings with player reps from each of the top NA HCS teams to provide feedback and discuss improvements for Halo 5 and beyond. We flew players out to the studio for a couple of days where they met with the team, played the game, fed back on maps/modes and participated in a lengthy roundtable discussion on all aspects of the game including core mechanics/gameplay. Again, nothing was out of bounds for discussion.

 

That said, there wasn't a push from the group for changes to core mechanics/settings. We were very direct in opening this up and pushing for feedback. It was discussed at length and the consensus amongst the group was that the game plays very well competitively in its current form. There was a lot of feedback related to improving the surrounding experience, additional features to help the game grow and thoughts on how to better structure the overall esports program, run events, etc. Our team takes this feedback very seriously. We took detailed notes from the visit and will be using them to help prioritize feature development and improvements to HCS, etc.

 

The plan is to continue this direct engagement with our pro community on a regular basis and we'll be rotating participants to vary player representation at these councils and bring more international perspective into the mix as well. Bravo, Tashi, Quinn or I will put together a blog to talk more about these efforts in the not-so-distant future.

 

ok. then i guess i have all the info i need to know here....

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Not being malicious here, but this surprises me. Nobody said anything about radar, etc?

 

Also, on the topic of radar... the pro players have been loud and against many parts of the game (map settings, breakout) but never Radar.

Just to add to this, iirc, the pros really have to choose their battles when trying to change settings.

 

For example, they're way more concerned with getting Overgrowth, Riptide, and Tyrant removed than trying to get radar removed. Obviously they could lobby for the removal of both, but with them not knowing how much their feedback will even be considered, they have to pick and choose.

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So....When does the Arena playlist get switched back to HCS settings only? And has anyone played Mercy yet? Could it work in the HCS.

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While pro player feedback is important, you have to remember they are most likely not going to go against what they are used to at this point (I mean, I wouldn't). Something I loved with MLG settings was Killa KC would get community members to test our new gametypes and use their feedback (pro players would be in them too).

 

Just random thoughts on it, I'm really glad to see 343i and players working together on stuff.

 

If only there was a member of the pro team that has done something like this in the past...

 

oh well

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Is it possible we can have a radar where SAs are only shown? I think thatd be a decent middle point

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I think it would be amazing if M+KB and Controller players are able to compete and play together (as long as no aimbots and hacks start popping up).

1) It opens halo to a wider audience, bigger population, potentally more playlists.

2) pro scene could potentially change with more/better competition (skill gap tightens)

3) Cool to see a top team split, 2 controller players, two M+KB players.

 

Plus either way, the top players right now, would mostly likely stay the same, since the attributes that differentiates pro's from us regular folks are the decision making, communication and teamwork they all have.

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While pro player feedback is important, you have to remember they are most likely not going to go against what they are used to at this point (I mean, I wouldn't). Something I loved with MLG settings was Killa KC would get community members to test our new gametypes and use their feedback (pro players would be in them too).

 

Just random thoughts on it, I'm really glad to see 343i and players working together on stuff.

 

 

KC was the man. Maybe TB could organize a custom games session trying some different things out? It wouldn't be HCS official of course, but maybe help provide some feedback? 

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Honestly can't believe the pros aren't fighting for radar to be removed. 

 

I'm not being sarcastic either. I'm really surprised and disappointed

 

It's not really a surprise that there's a split among opinions.

 

I bet there hasn't even been one full 14 game scrim testing radar. Which @@Sal1ent has encouraged them to do. With someone moderating and gathering feedback in a full team scrim, there could be better thoughts on the matter. But if you were to ask all pro teams straight up about radar, of course there will be mixed opinions, because most haven't fully tested it.

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We definitely talked about it (I may have been the one who brought it up) and there wasn't agreement amongst the participants that this would be a positive change. And to be fair, the pros haven't had a chance to play H5 extensively with radar off so they couldn't be confident it would work with the core mechanics of H5. This was a debate we had internally w/ pro team before the game's release and ultimately decided that the heightened mobility made players too hard to track without it, especially in objective games.

 

The biggest problem with radar in the current game is how it limits the effectiveness of flanking. We talked about some potential solutions for future. I also asked the pros to spend some time scrimming without radar to see what they think of the way it plays in different modes/maps so we can revisit the discussion.

 

 

I'm sure this has been discussed but I ask because there is not on option for it in custom games, but has a limited Radar been considered, such that it shows players only when they would show up on radar if they were sprinting, thrusting, shooting, clambering, stabilizing, maybe jumping, and ground pounding (see "Advanced Sensors"). I have always been a huge proponent of this compromise not just because its a compromise, but because it improves flanking potential in Warzone but isn't game breaking (not saying WZ is supposed to be competitive but it can't be disregarded). It also obviously means trying to move with some stealth is much more viable without making players invisible when they're going for a ninja.

 

I feel adding a limited radar option to custom games is the first step to opening more productive talks about radar, right now it is simply too polarizing to decide solely between radar off/on.

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