Jump to content
CyReN

HCS Pro League Fall 2016 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

Recommended Posts

Decided to graphic up the Halo Title Belt

VxYIVk8.png

A few things:

- This graphic is based off what team held the Title Belt at the end of the month.

- Title swaps mid-tournament do not show up unless the team won the event.

- If anyone has Logos for "Team FFA" or "Domination" I'll gladly updated the pictures. :)

looks cool I guess

  • Downvote (-1) 7

Share this post


Link to post

I loved your Major Adam, I bought the Twitch Subscription that weekend. I've watched them all and yours was unarguably top 5 (ESL Katowice top1 for me). However, it is undeniable that ESL has done far more for CSGO than anyone else (Dreamhack has a case too but the scale isn't quite there), they're raised the bar time and time again pushing CSGO to where it peaked.

 

Because when people talk about Counter-Strike I know about Counter-Strike. If you want to talk shit about ESL in Halo then fine go ahead. However it's very obvious that people don't follow the scene and just cherry pick little snippets to have a dig. I mean, to be completely honest you're not even getting to the meat of what people from CSGO don't / haven't like about ESL.

 

Don't agree with that. You can't argue that, "people don't know CS:GO" without evidence. Destroyer and I always watch the tourneys whenever they are going on and the occasional ECS and ESL pro league matches. Hell, the young god Frosty is a dmg in CS:GO. 

From somebody who used to play Gears casually and competitively (I teamed with Fallout very briefly *one of the main MLG broadcasters for Gears and ex pro player*), I genuinely think Gears is one of the least forgiving Esports titles for newcomers and spectators, short of games like League and DotA which comes with the territory of items/individualized skills per champion. 

Well I'm very new to Gears. I mean I know the basics of it (3rd person cover shooter that has up close brutal weapons) but never knew it competitively. Escalation is similar to CS:GO for me in a way besides one life of course (round based, 5v5, one game mode on multiple maps,) and after MLG invitational, two fight nights (coolest thing ever), and this open tournament I'm pretty versed in what's going on for me to enjoy it. It think it is a lot easier than LoL or DOTA in terms of accessiblity because it's not over the top and you can visually understand a big play without knowing the meta (like a 3K or out maneuvering a gnasher shot while full red) unlike LoL or DOTA. 

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

You said it was perfect, it is not perfect. You try explaining the concept to people who are new to the scene it doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.

  • Overwatch - "KOTH, single hill, first to 100, first to 3" OR "Unlock and push the cart, best time wins or sudden death"
  • CSGO - "Terrorists / Counter-terrorists, 2 bombsites to plant the bomb in time, first to 16 playing both sides, there's a money system"
  • GOW4 - "3 hills giving points, 210 point limit, 3 cap potential, first to 7, best of 3, spawning with spawns increasing, weapon placements, half time"
Yes I understood what was going on but if you're looking for perfection, especially as something that is broadcasting, it should be intuitive and easily readable coming in at any point in the match. For instance I had absolutely no idea the spawn times were increasing (which is a massive part of the game mode I would imagine) until the casters said it and even then I don't know when they change or by how much each time or what happens at half time.

 

As far as the hud is concerned from a spectator point of view it was all over the place and very cramped taking up a lot of space because of the bottom bar. I don't know if it was the MLG graphics or part of the game hud but the top of the screen was dominated by a single piece of information, that current game score between the two teams. Really you'd want to take the hill information and push it in there as well to make it less cluttered (see Overwatch). The bottom bar again from a broadcasting point of view was a problem that I guarantee MLG had to work around - why is it so big and why can't you turn it off if you've got a proficient spectator.

Wow you literally have to try to make it confusing. So many esports have round/map/series systems with multiple win conditions yet somehow gears doing something similar is confusing?

 

You win a round by scoring 210 or triple capping

You win a map by winning 7 rounds

You win a series by winning 2 maps

 

Anyone who's ever watched a round based sport (like tennis) or any round based esport (like most of them) can easily understand.

 

As far as weapons placements and respawn times- those are high level details that dont effect the broadcast at the low level. Lots of people love watching american football, but many dont know the ins and outs of all the rules, or cant identify strategies and adjustments being made. The hardcore fans consume all of this, and the commentators fill in the blanks for those in between. Gears is no different.

 

Edit: yes the black box needs to go, but the HUD conveys all of the neccessary info (score, hill status, player health)

  • Upvote (+1) 4

Share this post


Link to post

Why hasn't ESL/343 come out and removed stasis from rotation so teams can stop wasting a veto?

 

I don't understand the need to always wait for stuff like this.  Simple, quick, nobody is going to argue. you don't need to bundle content releases, bug fixes, and rule changes into one big package.  When a bug is fixed, fix it.  When content is done, release it.

 

and yeah i know agile development blah blah, bundling fixes in builds is (on paper) less risky than releasing fixes piecemeal whatever whatever, but after this amount of time idgaf

So much this. It is unanimous among the pros and competitive community that Stasis is not competitive. I can get the hesitation to act on radar/autos because there's somewhat of a divide there, but literally no one wants Stasis to be in the rotation as is.

Share this post


Link to post

Don't agree with that. You can't argue that, "people don't know CS:GO" without evidence. Destroyer and I always watch the tourneys whenever they are going on and the occasional ECS and ESL pro league matches. Hell, the young god Frosty is a dmg in CS:GO. 

Well I'm very new to Gears. I mean I know the basics of it (3rd person cover shooter that has up close brutal weapons) but never knew it competitively. Escalation is similar to CS:GO for me in a way besides one life of course (round based, 5v5, one game mode on multiple maps,) and after MLG invitational, two fight nights (coolest thing ever), and this open tournament I'm pretty versed in what's going on for me to enjoy it. It think it is a lot easier than LoL or DOTA in terms of accessiblity because it's not over the top and you can visually understand a big play without knowing the meta (like a 3K or out maneuvering a gnasher shot while full red) unlike LoL or DOTA. 

everything is easier than LoL or Dota lmao..

 

I tried playing DotA yesterday, went in blind and had no clue what to do.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Why hasn't ESL/343 come out and removed stasis from rotation so teams can stop wasting a veto?

 

I don't understand the need to always wait for stuff like this.  Simple, quick, nobody is going to argue. you don't need to bundle content releases, bug fixes, and rule changes into one big package.  When a bug is fixed, fix it.  When content is done, release it.

 

and yeah i know agile development blah blah, bundling fixes in builds is (on paper) less risky than releasing fixes piecemeal whatever whatever, but after this amount of time idgaf

Well, the answer is because it at the least seems that they're incompetent. It's funny that ESM removed it from a minor league, but 343/ESL apparently can't recognize that the map is broken.

Share this post


Link to post

He's being 100% serious. Thanks to you we will never have MLG back.

Neg me for eternity :(

Share this post


Link to post

I messaged Zane about this yesterday, and obviously I ageee that game breaking issues like ghost melees and disconnects need to be prioritized, but that doesn't require the entire office of 343 to do that task. That's a coding issue that I bet a lot of people over there don't have the qualifications to even handle.. coding is hard AF and finding an issue can sometimes takes months, as we have seen. However, the people not working on that should be gathering as much info from pros for settings as possible. We can't do anything about the servers and ghost melees, but we can help with settings and that should be taken advantage of. Hoping to have something similar to what Vetoed did for competitive settings. Will probably make my final draft public as well

Nice to see players apply so much pressure... sad that the have too.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Hopefully something comes out of this. It seems like pretty irreparable damage is being done to the morale of people who actually care about the esports side of things. Its been this way for a long time but something needs to change before everyone just gives up. We can't continually lose tons of our core community because we're just ignored forever.

Share this post


Link to post

343 needs to learn to Hotfix their game ASAP. If you have a fix ready for ghost melees, release it. Not on a given date, not in a given content update, now (I'm not trying to rush them through development, just as soon as the fix is release ready).

 

Tom French stated on twitter he had a fix for the bookmarks bug ready literally months ago, and that the hotfix he requested was denied. I do not personally know that the melee fix is 100% ready, but the bookmark bug sets a precedent that 343 is unwilling to hotfix. I fear it is the same for the melee fix.

 

The fact that we have to wait for a hyped up content update for game breaking bugs to be fixed is honestly the most appalling part of 343's management of H5.

 

Hotfixing is going to be critical for 343 to maintain any respect of the community going forward, seeing as it's been 2-3 months between each update since June. That will not stand, as there are frequently fixes to be made in this game.

Easier said than done. I believe Halo 5 has had a couple of hot fixes in the past, too. 

 

I think the main concern is halting development on the upcoming content update to prepare the hotfix for release, wait to see if it passes certification. If it does, great, release it and back to work on the content update. If not, then that has delayed both the hotfix and the content update. 

 

I can't talk for the bookmarks issue and it's a shame that it was denied but since the next update is so close, it might have slowed things down overall if the hotfix failed certification, especially more than once.

Share this post


Link to post

The next content update for Halo 5 "is super close", "is hoped to ship very soon." via @@ske7ch

 

Wvt4dYw.png

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/5doh78/could_we_get_an_official_response_about_halo_5_pc/dajfvxx/

 

Unfortunately this means at least 2-3 weeks. 343 will do an update teasing the reqs at least, then a live stream. So soontm in this case isn't soon enough considering how critical the fixes in this update are.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Unfortunately this means at least 2-3 weeks. 343 will do an update teasing the reqs at least, then a live stream. So soontm in this case isn't soon enough considering how critical the fixes in this update are.

I could see a full REQ reveal this week, release next week and showing off the content during the NA Finals stream.

 

Wishful thinking, though.

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

Don't agree with that. You can't argue that, "people don't know CS:GO" without evidence. Destroyer and I always watch the tourneys whenever they are going on and the occasional ECS and ESL pro league matches. Hell, the young god Frosty is a dmg in CS:GO.

I'm Global not that it matters. Go and look at the post I was quoting originally, the guy even said he was just shit stirring. I'm not trying to paint all people with the same brush just call out bullshit when I see it. Unfortunately at the moment when it comes to taking jabs at ESL/343 people take liberties with information because it goes along with the current feeling.

 

E.g. Comparing HCS Vegas to a Gears $300k MLG run event. Which happened until someone went "nah bruh, be fair".

 

Wow you literally have to try to make it confusing. So many esports have round/map/series systems with multiple win conditions yet somehow gears doing something similar is confusing?

 

You win a round by scoring 210 or triple capping

You win a map by winning 7 rounds

You win a series by winning 2 maps

 

Anyone who's ever watched a round based sport (like tennis) or any round based esport (like most of them) can easily understand.

 

As far as weapons placements and respawn times- those are high level details that dont effect the broadcast at the low level. Lots of people love watching american football, but many dont know the ins and outs of all the rules, or cant identify strategies and adjustments being made. The hardcore fans consume all of this, and the commentators fill in the blanks for those in between. Gears is no different.

 

Edit: yes the black box needs to go, but the HUD conveys all of the neccessary info (score, hill status, player health)

It's an accumulation of things as I previously explained. Rounds based is more than fine as a concept but the way it's mixed in with re-spawning in this case isn't ideal.

 

I'm not be obtuse trying to make it confusing, merely explaining why it's not "perfect" by what I experienced when watching yesterday.

 

PM if you want to continue so it's not cluttering the thread.

  • Downvote (-1) 4

Share this post


Link to post

Easier said than done. I believe Halo 5 has had a couple of hot fixes in the past, too. 

 

I think the main concern is halting development on the upcoming content update to prepare the hotfix for release, wait to see if it passes certification. If it does, great, release it and back to work on the content update. If not, then that has delayed both the hotfix and the content update. 

 

I can't talk for the bookmarks issue and it's a shame that it was denied but since the next update is so close, it might have slowed things down overall if the hotfix failed certification, especially more than once.

 

You're right there was exactly 2 hotfixes released for this game: one to fix the diagonal aim acceleration before even the first content update, and one to install the ghost melee telemetry. Obviously I don't have 343's development schedule on hand but I think everyone here would definitely take a melee hotfix next week and a CU in a month than both in 2 weeks. The grenade launcher can wait. I understand your concern about delays occurring during certification, but assuming development on the fix is "done", issues with certification will occur regardless of when testing occurs. Not to mention a studio such as 343 should have a dedicated debugging team where stuff like this may fall. I'm also not exaggerating about the bookmark bug. Tom French talked about the process on twitter and it sounded like it was ready a week or two after Anvil's Legacy launched and it sounded like it never went through testing for a hotfix, then it was put on the back burner for 2 months until they started talking about this update again. No it may not be quite as critical but the precedent it sets is disturbing.

 

I could see a full REQ reveal this week, release next week and showing off the content during the NA Finals stream.

 

Wishful thinking, though.

 

You may be right in this case but I honestly believe the primary reason 343 is rushing this at all is the result of how poorly the Vegas servers ran. If there are ghost melees and server disconnects on LAN at HCS finals I think the pro community is going to riot. If I were a pro player and I got a ghost melee in finals I would stand up right then and request a referee restart the game.

  • Upvote (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

Just as a huge heads up, this is in the context of Halo 5 PC in case you didn't catch that.

 

Not sure if updates are the same cadence as Xbox.

The updates release in-sync so they'll both be arriving together.

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.