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HCS Pro League Fall 2016 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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10000% agreed, but I also dont think anybody could argue that ESL Majors are lackluster because of quantity. They've put on pretty incredible shows, if I'm not mistaken, each and every time. 

 

Nobody is arguing who is the better operator here, the guy is simply stating that ESL has supported CS with well executed majors consistently. 

 

Agreed, Katowice 2 years ago is still one of my favorite sets ever. 

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Got to disagree on that, the game mode felt all over the place to watch:

  • The primary problem was the hud that was just a mess of information and a wacking big black bar at the bottom
  • The arbitrary numbers didn't make much sense - first to 210? / trip cap, leading into best of seven rounds, leading into best of 3.
  • Spawn timers increase, weapons are introduced and there's a half time for some reason.
It's kind of the worst of both worlds in that it's spawn based within a round based structure, so there's a lack of finality usually sloppily ending in teams trying desperate the obj.
Huh? I don't understand why any of those things are confusing. Any win condition is 'arbitrary'. 210 is no less arbitrary than 200. If i had to guess, they chose 210 because it's a multiple of 3.

 

You score 210 or get a trip cap you win the round.

 

Each map is a best of 13 rounds. Each series is a best of 3 maps.

 

These are extremely basic concepts, that anyone who watches halo should be able to understand.

 

Spawn timer increases, and weapons placements add a nice element of strategy to the proceedings.

 

Edit: what more would you want from the hud? You've got the score, health, the kill feed, and the status of each hill.

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Agreed with the last part, usually it's constructive from my end, even at our OC event with esportsarena it was pretty bad early but the main man Phade over there took what we all said and the event on Satrday and especially Sunday was night and day. That's all it takes, caring. He cares and it showed. I think Vegas is the new bottom of the barrel as far as how events went and I didn't even play. I went to h3 and Reach locals that made more sense than whatever was going on there, lucky

It was in Vegas since that's all it really had going for it.

 

Phade clearly gave a shit.  We were roasting him pretty good in here on day one of that event and he showed up and didn't get butt-hurt by the occasionally over-the-top criticism and fixed the problems making drastic improvement quickly.  He didn't give any excuses or get defensive either which really ingratiated him to everybody here by sunday.  Credit to the rest of the ESA staff too, he was just the face that we got to interact with.  It was good to see.

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How come every time someone criticizes ESL, you drop this same exact post?

Why does "how much they do" matter?  Why can't we compare expected production value of CS to our expected production value for Halo? Failure in management is failure in management. 

 

Edit:  You either do a good job, regardless of budget and size, or you dont. If ESL can't pull off proper events and meet expectations for the largest competitive shooter out there, how are we supposed to expect them to make Halo a priority?  The criticism is fair because its not an isolated incident.

 

I mean...that seems like a no brainer.

 

Lets say I have two products. Product A and Product B. 

Product A is going to make me $10,000,000 over five years.

Product B is going to make me $1,000,000 over five years.

 

Which product are you going to invest heavily into? Obviously product A. The expected production value SHOULD be heavier in Counter Strike, and I dont even enjoy the game...thats just logical business. Even more so, what makes you think these teams even work REMOTELY close to each other? I'm incredibly confident that both games have their own teams of League Ops, Admins, and event TO's/Organizers.

 

tl;dr Dont pick a bone with CS management because you have an issue with Halo management. 

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Added some spoiler tags to some posts because I care for mobile users thumbs.

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Heads up, ske7ch is asking people over on r/halo for their ONE thing they want in H5 matchmaking.  A good chance to share your primary concern or want for matchmaking.  I think we all would agree that server stability should be priority #1, but I assume 343 realizes that so it would be good to share other wants as well. 

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Heads up, ske7ch is asking people over on r/halo for their ONE thing they want in H5 matchmaking.  A good chance to share your primary concern or want for matchmaking.  I think we all would agree that server stability should be priority #1, but I assume 343 realizes that so it would be good to share other wants as well. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/5fcyz1/what_one_thing_do_you_want_for_h5_matchmaking/

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It's hard for me to want to give feedback if the servers / ghost melee stuff isn't fixed. MWR has my friends and I weekly game night until something is done.

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Yeah.. If you asked me at launch I would say party restrictions, which would still be nice but at this point I'd rather have the servers fixed.

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Just reminding you how much ESL does for CSGO:

 

 

 

Future announced events:

 

  • Jul 07-Jul 09 ESL One: Cologne 2017

2016:

 

  • Nov 16-Nov 20 IEM Oakland - $300,000
  • Oct 26-Oct 30 ESL Pro League Season 4 - Finals - $600,000
  • Sep 30-Oct 02 ESL One: New York 2016 - $250,000
  • [Online League] Aug 17-Oct 13 ESL Pro League Season 4 - Europe $75,000
  • [Online League] Aug 17-Oct 13 ESL Pro League Season 4 - North America $75,000
  • Jul 05-Jul 10 ESL One: Cologne 2016 - $1,000,000
  • May 11-May 15 ESL Pro League Season 3 - Finals - $512,000
  • Feb 19-Feb 21 ESL Expo Barcelona - $83,490
  • [Online League] Feb 09-Apr 26 ESL Pro League Season 3 - Europe - $119,000
  • [Online League] Feb 09-Apr 26 ESL Pro League Season 3 - North America - $119,000

2015:

  • Dec 10-Dec 13 ESL ESEA Pro League Season II - Finals - $250,000
  • [Online League] Sep 15-Nov 19 ESL ESEA Pro League Season 2 - North America - $125,000
  • [Online League] Sep 15-Nov 17 ESL ESEA Pro League Season 2 - Europe $125,000
  • Sep 10-Sep 12 ESL ESEA Pro League Invitational - $250,000
  • Aug 20-Aug 23 ESL One: Cologne 2015 - $250,000
  • Jul 02-Jul 05 ESL ESEA Pro League Season I - Finals - $250,000
  • [Online League] May 04-Jun 22 ESL ESEA Pro League Season 1 - North America - $125,000
  • [Online League] May 04-Jun 24 ESL ESEA Pro League Season 1 - Europe - $125,000
  • Mar 12-Mar 15 ESL One: Katowice 2015 - $250,000

2014:

  • [Online League] Dec 03-Apr 12 ESL Pro League I ESL - $48,000
  • Aug 14-Aug 17 ESL One: Cologne 2014 - $250,000
  • Mar 13-Mar 16 ESL Major Series One: Katowice 2014 - $250,000

Green are the ESL ran developer backed CSGO majors. I stopped going back from 2014 because Katowice was their first 'Major' (arguably the best and a catalyst to massive expectations for majors) but they were there before that when the game was dirt and needed lifting. I have nothing against MLG but they have run 2 big CSGO events, ESL is CS and has been for years.

 

TL;DR please stop trying to use Counter-Strike as an example, it doesn't work.

 

 

Oh wow ESL has run the majority of the events in CSGO. How does that make CS a bad example for showing why ESL is a shady company? The CS community has been against ESL for a while now as almost every event in recent memory has had a slew of problems that the other TOs don't have. Stop trying to make it out that just because ESL runs more events makes them good.

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H5 is still fun for me. The biggest issue I have with it is that it is easy to switch FROM H5 to another console shooter like Destiny or MWR. In fact I always feel like a god when I switch from Halo to those games. However, when I switch back to  Halo 5 it takes me ages to adjust to the aim and I'm trash for 5 - 10 games. It makes me not want to play Halo 5 at all.

The aiming in H5 is so freaking weird - literally every other console shooter plays fine except Halo 5. Typical 343 I guess. Even Halo 4 had better aiming. It's impossible to take a break from Halo 5 and come back feeling fine. 

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Sure I hear you but I don't subscribe to the quantity over quality argument as a basis for judging who is a better operator.

 

That being said, no one should be 'shitting' on operators in my opinion unless the event is a complete disaster.

well the one last saturday was pretty bad, I mean, how many times did the servers crash?

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I mean...that seems like a no brainer.

 

Lets say I have two products. Product A and Product B. 

Product A is going to make me $10,000,000 over five years.

Product B is going to make me $1,000,000 over five years.

 

Which product are you going to invest heavily into? Obviously product A. The expected production value SHOULD be heavier in Counter Strike, and I dont even enjoy the game...thats just logical business. Even more so, what makes you think these teams even work REMOTELY close to each other? I'm incredibly confident that both games have their own teams of League Ops, Admins, and event TO's/Organizers.

 

tl;dr Dont pick a bone with CS management because you have an issue with Halo management. 

 

Maybe i should have added some clarification in there, but this argument has gone around and around many times with many examples and its tiresome.

 

I am not saying that Halo should have giant tournaments in Cologne with super expensive sets and prize pools of 250k multiple times a year.

 

Hell, I am not even saying I think that ESL has done a terrible job with Halo.  Second season of pro league was ran well.  Most of the issues with it are development related and really beyond their control.

 

It is possible to run a very high-quality event without a ton of money.  You may not have the crazy sets and bells and whistles, but those are just extras. i DO expect full effort when running any event regardless of size or budget.

 

My point was really that just because they run some huge tournaments successfully (and some not so successfully) they are not beyond reproach.  It's also not inappropriate to use other esports as examples (good or bad).  

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Can my one suggestion to ske7ch be no Quinn Del Hoyo or is that considered rude?

Not at all. I mean he drove gears into the ground and he's well on his way to planting the grass on halos grave.

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It is possible to run a very high-quality event without a ton of money.  You may not have the crazy sets and bells and whistles, but those are just extras. i DO expect full effort when running any event regardless of size or budget.

 

My point was really that just because they run some huge tournaments successfully (and some not so successfully) they are not beyond reproach.  It's also not inappropriate to use other esports as examples (good or bad).  

 

Removed the stuff that was just clarification (Thanks by the way, does seem like miscommunication).

Left the stuff that I 10000000% agree with. 

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https://i.redd.it/045eouwko60y.jpg

 

When you want 343 to solve critical matchmaking issues or provide worthwhile features and they are busy making micro transaction announcer packs

This was probably a response to the non-stop jokes about "Were still in this. We can still destroy the enemy core!"

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