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HCS Pro League Fall 2016 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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I could see Str8 staying together, and i hope they do

yeah i mean i really have zero idea who they would drop. 

 

 

could se a potential rayguin roybox combo if liquid and eg split not sure liquid will split though gonna be a tough business decision.

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yeah i mean i really have zero idea who they would drop. 

 

 

could se a potential rayguin roybox combo if liquid and eg split not sure liquid will split though gonna be a tough business decision.

Roybox stock as a duo has dropped significantly so why would Rayne and Penguin join them to begin with? A more realistic team I could see is BubuDubu, Shooter, Rayne, and Penguin, but that won't happen because Liquid are still really good and E6 probably will threaten Bubu and Shooter if they try to leave or raise their salary a bit as an incentive to stay.

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-snip-

the thing about the "well regular season wouldn't mean anything" argument is that so many people have suggested and discussed a format where the bottom two teams would still play relegation and then whoever wins that goes on to compete at finals with the other 6 teams. it'd be exciting and make for some crazy runs if an am team breaks in.

 

you'd be playing for placings, money and not having to go to relegation. seems good to me

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IMO: I don't think having all 8 teams in the finals is a waste of the regular season. If 2 AM teams beat the bottom 2 Pro League teams, I feel they deserve the right to play in Finals. And as far as 5th and 6th goes, I think they also have EARNED the right to play on the (overall) better stability culminated at the Finals LAN. 

I can't see how this makes the regular season any less legitimate. 

 

the thing about the "well regular season wouldn't mean anything" argument is that so many people have suggested and discussed a format where the bottom two teams would still play relegation and then whoever wins that goes on to compete at finals with the other 6 teams. it'd be exciting and make for some crazy runs if an am team breaks in.

you'd be playing for placings, money and not having to go to relegation. seems good to me

This.

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Well thought out, and slightly self deprecating wall of text

If they are so concerned about making pro league matter, they could have top 4 start in the winners bracket, and make all the other teams start in a single Elim bracket. 

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If they are so concerned about making pro league matter, they could have top 4 start in the winners bracket, and make all the other teams start in a single Elim bracket. 

Now see this is something I don't agree with. Find a better advantage to give. Seeding should be good enough imo. You need to start everyone out fairly, otherwise you are just welcoming complaints and criticism. Seeding, Money, and Avoiding Relegation are great incentives for doing well in the regular season. No need to put an unfair advantage and undermining the rare occurrence of a LAN.

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Now see this is something I don't agree with. Find a better advantage to give. Seeding should be good enough imo. You need to start everyone out fairly, otherwise you are just welcoming complaints and criticism. Seeding, Money, and Avoiding Relegation are great incentives for doing well in the regular season. No need to put an unfair advantage and undermining the rare occurrence of a LAN.

 

I get what you mean, but I still think a split bracket would be miles better than leaving them out entirely. If ESL is that intent on making pro league placing important, that is about the most significant reward you can give to the top 4 teams and still have all 8 compete.

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NA Week 7 Pro League Stats

 

EnVy:

qB4CQes.jpg

 

Optic:

 

UQfWgCo.jpg

 

 

Liquid:

 

Z6gD49l.jpg

 

 

Str8:

 

4I3sLwJ.jpg

 

 

Luminosity:

 

o6RaRNR.jpg

 

 

Evil Geniuses:

 

Juf9RpT.jpg

 

 

Enigma6:

 

014Xf3H.jpg

 

 

Allegiance:

 

u6PvLJx.jpg

 

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I get what you mean, but I still think a split bracket would be miles better than leaving them out entirely. If ESL is that intent on making pro league placing important, that is about the most significant reward you can give to the top 4 teams and still have all 8 compete.

Sigh. And I get what you mean. But it feels like settling, just like the whole West vs. Midwest/East coast LANs. It feels like that solution would be like "Ugh, they complain when only 4 go and now they complain when all 8 go but 4 of them can only lose once. They can't be pleased." 

 

I know it would be better than leaving them out, but why handcuff teams when the competition is so close that it went down to the last series in both seasons to determine the 4th place team.

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Now see this is something I don't agree with. Find a better advantage to give. Seeding should be good enough imo. You need to start everyone out fairly, otherwise you are just welcoming complaints and criticism. Seeding, Money, and Avoiding Relegation are great incentives for doing well in the regular season. No need to put an unfair advantage and undermining the rare occurrence of a LAN.

I don't think there's anything unfair about increasing the disadvantage. So many sports due something similar. Wildcard teams in baseball have to play a single elim game. In football they are denied any opportunity to play at home.

 

The argument is, if you wanted a better shot, you shoulda played better during the season. And if you truly are the best, you'll overcome the odds.

 

The main reason these work is frankly because the drama that ensues. People love drama.

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How about a double elimination tournament where 5th to 8th start in the losers bracket?

That technically means 5th 6th are just single elim while 7/8 are double elim (can lose one series of relegation and still advance to bracket.)

 

1/2 Winners R1 Bye.

3 plays 6, 4 plays 5 WR1.

7 and 8 await losers of WR1 in LR1.

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I don't think there's anything unfair about increasing the disadvantage. So many sports due something similar. Wildcard teams in baseball have to play a single elim game. In football they are denied any opportunity to play at home.

 

The argument is, if you wanted a better shot, you shoulda played better during the season. And if you truly are the best, you'll overcome the odds.

That would be all well and good but in non esports, teams don't have to play with equipment that worked intermittently. You don't see a guy get a homer and then a staff member toss the ball back in play. Online play has been a nightmare server/glitchwise. Not everything is black and white like that unfortunately

 

I know in some areas there is human error(refs, umps) but the impact is significantly more present this season of Pro league than a normal sports game irl

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How about a double elimination tournament where 5th to 8th start in the losers bracket?

My idea was simple:

 

7/8 start in losers. 1/2 get byes. 3v6 4v5 first round. If one team got relegated, then the 6th seed has to play the AM team first before they can play the 3rd seed.

 

And make the orgs who aren't top 4 pay their way. These orgs have gotten off easy with pro league and ESL paying for everything

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NA Week 7 Pro League Stats

 

EnVy:

qB4CQes.jpg

 

Optic:

 

UQfWgCo.jpg

 

 

Liquid:

 

Z6gD49l.jpg

 

 

Str8:

 

4I3sLwJ.jpg

 

 

Luminosity:

 

o6RaRNR.jpg

 

 

Evil Geniuses:

 

Juf9RpT.jpg

 

 

Enigma6:

 

014Xf3H.jpg

 

 

Allegiance:

 

u6PvLJx.jpg

 

HUKE THE ONLY NV PLAYER TO GO NEGATIVE?!? WHAT'S HAPPENING TO THIS WORLD!??!  :wutface:

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That would be all well and good but in non esports, teams don't have to play with equipment that worked intermittently. You don't see a guy get a homer and then a staff member toss the ball back in play. Online play has been a nightmare server/glitchwise. Not everything is black and white like that unfortunately

Well that's true. I'm just saying from a ideological standpoint, there's nothing wrong with having 6/7 be wildcards.

 

But I can understand the sentiment of having equal starts on LAN when the regular season is full of technical issues.

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That technically means 5th 6th are just single elim while 7/8 are double elim (can lose one series of relegation and still advance to bracket.)

 

1/2 Winners R1 Bye.

3 plays 6, 4 plays 5 WR1.

7 and 8 await losers of WR1 in LR1.

No, 7th and 8th would be determined by the relegation tournament. So for ALG and E6 to get to the finals tournament they would first have to win/come second in relegations. In the finals tournament 5th to 8th would effectively be single elim whereas 1st to 4th would be double.

 

Gives a distinct advantage of being top 4 whilst retaining a full 8 team finals.

 

 

Or you could have a double elim tournament where 5th and 6th are in the losers and 7th/8th just play in the relegation tournament.

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Are there any other options than these that would allow every team in the pro league to play + 2 AMs?
All brackets are assumed to be double elimination.

 

-4 Team Relegation with separate 6 team champ bracket
-4 Team Relegation, 2 survivors start in LB of the Champ bracket
-4 Team Relegation, 2 survivors seeded as 7/8 into full Champ bracket

 

I think the first option is something that could be pulled off in time for the finals next month.  That would be a HUGE gesture on ESLs part if they made it happen imo.

I think that between the money, seeding and threat of relegation, the regular season has enough meaning on its own.  If they wanted to make it more meaningful, increase the prize pool by a bit so there is more than just $1000 difference between placements.

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Well that's true. I'm just saying from a ideological standpoint, there's nothing wrong with having 6/7 be wildcards.

 

But I can understand the sentiment of having equal starts on LAN when the regular season is full of technical issues.

Yea to me it would feel like them doubling down on the negatives of Online play by handicapping teams instead of making amends. Wasn't it a week or 2 ago a team lost a game because of a ghost melee? It's nuts!

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