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SMARTAN 427

H5: Evolved settings/details [V4 update, Part 2-MAPS!]

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If they make an actually good classic playlist would I be only person interested in having a ranked version?

Obviously not

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Also, @@NOKYARD

 

May I ask what the general rule is for the map selection process?

 

Are there going to be any default maps or cool new community created maps, or is it going to be narrowly limited to just straight remakes with no structural changes?

 

The reason I ask is because we had a plan where we were going to focus on grabbing spiritual successors, reimaginings, and maps inspired by classic maps, instead of just straight remakes.

 

This would have allowed Forgers more room for creativity as well as giving a chance to fix any potential flaws of trying to make classic maps work in the context of H5.

 

For example, White Cell (a map that already made it to matchmaking) was a favorite of our lobbies, and that map was heavily inspired by Haven from H4.

 

Also, for a great remake, The Pit from Foge looks and plays amazing for what you would generally expect.

 

I know that you are not necessarily in charge of actually selecting maps, but I'm just curious. Kind of looking to have an idea of what to expect.

 

I have been working with Foge and Martian Mall Cop all day.

 

We are looking for 1:1 remakes, but are flexible in the design area (ie. Jungle Creek). All we can hope for is the playlist is wildly successful, and the game play is well received by the community. Then, who knows, maybe expand into more unique maps in future playlists. But, for right now, it's purely remakes.

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I have been working with Foge and Martian Mall Cop all day.

 

We are looking for 1:1 remakes, but are flexible in the design area (ie. Jungle Creek). All we can hope for is the playlist is wildly successful, and the game play is well received by the community. Then, who knows, maybe expand into more unique maps in future playlists. But, for right now, it's purely remakes.

Cool to know. I am glad to see Foge get some recognition for his awesome Pit remake.

 

As for other ones, IDK. The only other good ones I currently know of were in the CE 15 Anniversary playlist that no one liked.

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Cool to know. I am glad to see Foge get some recognition for his awesome Pit remake.

 

As for other ones, IDK. The only other good ones I currently know of were in the CE 15 Anniversary playlist that no one liked.

You mean the playlist which no one liked but was also one of the most popular temp playlists of all time? That one?

 

Yeah, those were Halo 5 sized CE maps.

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You mean the playlist which no one liked but was also one of the most popular temp playlists of all time? That one?

 

Yeah, those were Halo 5 sized CE maps.

I wasn't aware that it was popular, all I remember is complaints about it having Spartan Abilities. But that is besides the point.

 

 

 

Anyway, with 110% base movement speed, and 120% jump height/110% jump gravity, those CE maps seemed like they scaled pretty much perfectly for the context of a faster classic H5, which plays more like H2 or H3.

 

Not saying you have any say on this, but I REALLY hope that they don't try to launch this playlist with anything less than 110% base movement speed, and less than the aforementioned jump settings. 90% is terribly slow and would partly defeat the point of some classic variants (such as Evolved and Old School) where the big point is to show that you don't need to have Sprint to move fast in Halo.

 

I understand that perhaps if you downscale the maps then 90% might not seem bad at all, but why do that when 110% base movement is a pretty solid base even for default H5 maps? Fixing jumps scaled for Clamber has been a much bigger issue for us than making maps fit the base movement speed.

 

Once again, I am aware that you are not in charge of gametype settings, but I don't really have anyone else involved with 343I to talk to regarding this.

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If you guys can present a design doc with the reason behind each of your settings i will make sure the Classics team gets it.

 

For example this is one from MartianMallCop.https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZEeg1swYy-lZ8WJYZ_vTFfJSwP3JOXWwIgE2TQyZsZI/edit

 

Question: What about the details in the Opening Post I made for this thread? Would that do? I spent a lot of time editing and updating it with the various subtle tweaks and reasoning behind each and every setting and change.

 

If that is not condensed enough though, I can definitely arrange for another design document.

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1:1 remakes don't work with classic settings on this game. I've tested hours of Old School and Evolved on 1:1s and H5's inner-crutches don't allow for stable/balanced gameplay. Maps need to be MADE for the settings, not hand picked and changed slightly.

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1:1 remakes don't work with classic settings on this game. I've tested hours of Old School and Evolved on 1:1s and H5's inner-crutches don't allow for stable/balanced gameplay. Maps need to be MADE for the settings, not hand picked and changed slightly.

 

If you are prepared to work with the forgers to help them custom tweak their maps to fit the game type i can pass that info along. 

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If you are prepared to work with the forgers to help them custom tweak their maps to fit the game type i can pass that info along.

I am sure that we would be happy to help.

 

H5's sandbox creates a different balance and gameplay scenario even with Classic movement. So you have to update maps to fit the new sandbox, similar to how maps remade in H2 and H3 were changed a bit.

 

We were definitely planning on gathering classic-inspired maps for Evolved a while ago, and if we got the go ahead this would be a great chance to do so.

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If you guys can present a design doc with the reason behind each of your settings i will make sure the Classics team gets it.

 

For example this is one from MartianMallCop.https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZEeg1swYy-lZ8WJYZ_vTFfJSwP3JOXWwIgE2TQyZsZI/edit

Ok, me and my Evolved partner, @@S0UL FLAME are currently working on our own design proposal document for you to pass along.

 

We should have have it ready by tomorrow night or so.

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No ARs, no other rifles (especially H2 BR and CC), and pistol starts. Stopppppp we don't need ******** straight upgrades in our "classic" playlist.

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Ya'll switched it back to 2-shot melee? Yoooo  :weback: broken boyz! Haha

 

And yeah H2 BR more than anything is going to murder anything on these settings. Just a fair warning guys. Carbine can be annoying but at least it's "deal-with-able". 

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Ya'll switched it back to 2-shot melee? Yoooo  :weback: broken boyz! Haha

 

ANd yeah H2 BR more than anything is going to murder anything on these settings. Just a fair warning guys. Carbine can be annoying but at least it's "deal-with-able". 

Never forget Wow wow getting double beat down while I had the flag to keep the narrows game alive

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Nice to see that shit like the two shot beat down that had nearly unanimous negative impressions in testing were forced in there regardless. Excellent.

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So, just to clear things up, this is likely what will happen, and what we stated in the document:

 

 

"SMARTAN and I are in agreement that having the Shields, Health, Melee, and Explosive Radius restored back to their default state, along with bringing back the default Magnum w/60 rounds, would be fine for the Classic Playlist. However, we ask that everything else in this change list be untouched."

 

 

What this means is that it will be likely we only get to keep the established movement.

 

Health, shields, grenade, and melee will likely be changed to reflect default H5 (although yes, we said we wished we could have only buffed the Magnum to a 4sk in isolation).

 

This likely means no 4sk Magnum, and default grenade and melee damage to match that.

 

And I highly doubt that they will let us do MLG Evolved Pro in matchmaking with only Magnum/Rockets/Snipe/OS/Camo.

 

What does everyone think would happen? We are already trying to avoid 90% base movement with H2 BR starts.

 

If anything we got to ease into it.

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Are you looking for 'manageable'?

 

Just using colloquialisms man lol. I do actually have an enhanced vocabulary haha. Just a bit of facetiousness to make light of the situation.

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Just using colloquialisms man lol. I do actually have an enhanced vocabulary haha. Just a bit of facetiousness to make light of the situation.

 

Likely story. 

 

:simms: 

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So, just to clear things up, this is likely what will happen, and what we stated in the document:

 

 

"SMARTAN and I are in agreement that having the Shields, Health, Melee, and Explosive Radius restored back to their default state, along with bringing back the default Magnum w/60 rounds, would be fine for the Classic Playlist. However, we ask that everything else in this change list be untouched."

 

 

What this means is that it will be likely we only get to keep the established movement.

 

Health, shields, grenade, and melee will likely be changed to reflect default H5 (although yes, we said we wished we could have only buffed the Magnum to a 4sk in isolation).

 

This likely means no 4sk Magnum, and default grenade and melee damage to match that.

 

And I highly doubt that they will let us do MLG Evolved Pro in matchmaking with only Magnum/Rockets/Snipe/OS/Camo.

 

What does everyone think would happen? We are already trying to avoid 90% base movement with H2 BR starts.

 

If anything we got to ease into it.

 

But why even add that caveat? A lot of the development of the Evolved settings was developed around 4sk settings. The Evolved settings how they stood, prior to me leaving, were amazing to play on. I think there were some criticisms about the movement speed that may or may not have been justified, hence, why you lowered it, but that was at least understandable. But if you're going to leave that caveat in, you may as well have just deferred to the Old School settings because it completely defeats the purpose of the Evolved settings to begin with. Sure it would  be "classic" in movement at that point.. But that's literally it. The Old School settings are just going to get resented because I can see all the Halowaypoint posts now.

"All these stupid Halo 3 players just wanted to play BRs only again."

 

Which is not the case because these settings can work with other weapons on the map.

 

I'm not exactly sure where you were even going with the MLG Evolved Pro whatever thing you were trying to say lol.

 

And ease into what exactly? The game has almost been out for two years and a classic playlist (not Evolved, just in general) is something that honestly should have manifested MANY months ago. Easing into something like this with an already terrible population with what is Halo 5's, is a terrible approach. Go for what we feel have been the best settings imaginable from the very beginning. There's compromise (such as weapon variety, minus BRs because they are literally broken on these settings), then there's just flat out giving up.

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It's already a classic playlist. It's already going to be niche. There's no reason to compromise actual settings for more people (that aren't guarenteed) when the people that WANT classic settings don't want the awful default weapon balance. You'll just piss off the people that really want to play classic settings, while the people that like that weapon balance will be playing default.

 

And for the love of GOD no ARs to start.

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