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Which game had worse gameplay at launch, Reach or The 4?

What had worse gameplay at launch, Reach or The 4?  

224 members have voted

  1. 1. Which game had worse gameplay AT LAUNCH?

    • Reach
      97
    • The 4
      131


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Because it was such a blatant mistake that even Bungie admitted it was a bad idea.

 

343i in the infinite wisdom obviously went right back to SMG starts in MCC

Such a mistake that they put in an AR for halo 3 lol. Bungie said it was a mistake not because they believed the BR was the solution, but that gameplay tweaks needed to be made to discourage medium range dominance by skilled players and make close range automatics more viable.

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I really think that Halo 4 is the worst video game I've ever played that I've paid any amount of money for.

 

I got very nearly zero enjoyment out of that game.

 

I remember my first ever game of HCE, H2, H3, and even Reach. I don't even remember a map in Halo 4 aside from Haven.

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Halo 4 was way more enjoyable it's honestly not even close. Bloom itself was enough to make me never want to play the game. All the other elements just made it that much easier. Halo 4 was a pretty fun social game for me and it basically filled my pubstomping itch.

 

Hell, I enjoy updated Halo 4 (whatever it's called) more than Halo 5, due to an actual focus on precision weapon combat and a great aiming system.

 

Reach was absolute poop. Didn't even make it to nbns.

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I never understood all the hate for Reach, but I didn't play it competitively only for fun. It just seems like the most complete Halo in series when it comes to game types and game activities. It was a time when I had friends playing Halo. I fired up Halo 5 last night and played a couple of games of swat and it was okay, but I was good with a couple of games as I was out. That wouldn't have been the case with Reach. If I got tired of swat I'd play snipers, mulitteam, big team, slayer, ffirefight, campaign chasing challenges or creating maps in forge with buddies to race one. Honestly, I don't really recall either of those titles being unplayable at launch as a casual player anyway. You guys will think I'm out of my tree, but I enjoyed Halo 4 much more than I have Halo 5. All this rambling is just my opinion of course!

 

I know it'll never happen, but I'd like to see all previous Halo's as standalone backward compatible releases. Now that's be sweet.

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Oh oh I just remembered the delayed flag juggles in Reach launch. Yes it was fixed later but I still remember (or did I just adjust) many lost flags due to that. Yes Halo 4 wasn't any better with forced flag carry. But atleast I could reliably defend myself with proper call outs and solid shots.

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Couple notes about Reach.

  • Bloom in Reach did nothing but frustrate most players in default settings by introducing a bit of randomness into almost all DMR fights. Interestingly enough though, Reach SWAT is the best iteration of SWAT by far precisely because bloom damn near mandates that players must hit their first shot if they want to get a kill. The extreme emphasis that game type has on initial accuracy blended perfectly with it.
  • I don't personally think that the maps in Reach were it's main problem. Rather, it's main problem was that jetpack and sprint ruined most of the maps after the fact. I think at least, that Sword Base and The Cage/Uncaged (temporarily broken Zealot notwithstanding) were the only genuinely bad maps, and every other map that played badly did so because of the aforementioned armor abilities.
  • Jetpack was (and remains) hideously broken. A couple of semi-competitive games on Hemorrhage where people start sniping you from glitchly out of map spots would prove this to anybody.

If I had to choose, I would choose Reach. Weapon loadouts, ordinance drops, no descope, insane aim assist, randomly spawning weapons, instant respawn, sprint being a default attribute, terrible playlist selection, broken file sharing system, horrible weapon balancing, an ugly and less functional UI, and significant frame rate issues on forge maps and BTB in general are all together simply too much to reasonably bear.

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Honestly launch H2 deserves to at least be in the conversation.

 

Fuck you bro, I love quadruple melee kills.  :laughing:

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Fuck you bro, I love quadruple melee kills.  :laughing:

You mean sextuple?  Because it was six.  Yeah, six.

 

@TI Inspire, I agree that Reach SWAT is the best it's ever been.  That is the one and only gametype where bloom is actually a good thing.  It was single shot and it severely punished missing.  SWAT on Powerhouse was pretty fucking awesome imo.

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You mean sextuple?  Because it was six.  Yeah, six.

 

@TI Inspire, I agree that Reach SWAT is the best it's ever been.  That is the one and only gametype where bloom is actually a good thing.  It was single shot and it severely punished missing.  SWAT on Powerhouse was pretty fucking awesome imo.

 

Haha yeah. I thought it was something around the 4-6 range or something absurd lol. Of course, I didn't know any better at the time though because it was my first console FPS besides Time Crisis (Yes, I know lol) and I was still a super extra mega casual.

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Haha yeah. I thought it was something around the 4-6 range or something absurd lol. Of course, I didn't know any better at the time though because it was my first console FPS besides Time Crisis (Yes, I know lol) and I was still a super extra mega casual.

I had played enough H1 with my bad local friends to know something was fucky.  Even so, you couldn't keep me away from the game.  I gotta say though, if that patch had come much later I probably would have swore the game off.  It was SOOO bad.

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I remember people used to (especially on site) constantly use the declining population of Halo 4 as evidence that no one liked the game. But there was a problem with the data that made it pretty much useless to compare with other Halo games.

 

Halo 4's population data only counted players that were actively searching for, and in matchmaking PvP games. Players in lobbies, the campaign, custom games, forge sessions, spartan ops matchmaking, etc, were not included in the total population count on Waypoint. Now since we don't actually have the data for how many players were doing those non-counted things at any given moment, it is impossible to determine exactly what percentage of the population they were.

 

However, we can make reasonable estimates.

 

This is because Halo: Reach not only had the data for the matchmaking population readily available, but it also included all online players in the total population. Thus, you can add up the populations for all the playlists together, and divide that number by the total population on Reach. If you do this, you will always get a number that is ~0.50. This means that at any given time for Reach, half of the population is not engaged in the only activities that would have been counted on the Halo 4 total population tracker. If we extrapolate a little bit by assuming that ratio was the same for Halo 4, then we can assume the real population for Halo 4 was double the number that was shown on Waypoint.

 

Unfortunately though, I don't think anyone ever pointed this out to people. So the population tracker become a source for much ridicule towards 343, so now they decided not to include any population tracker at all to avoid any such criticism in the future.

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I remember people used to (especially on site) constantly use the declining population of Halo 4 as evidence that no one liked the game. But there was a problem with the data that made it pretty much useless to compare with other Halo games.

 

Halo 4's population data only counted players that were actively searching for, and in matchmaking PvP games. Players in lobbies, the campaign, custom games, forge sessions, spartan ops matchmaking, etc, were not included in the total population count on Waypoint. Now since we don't actually have the data for how many players were doing those non-counted things at any given moment, it is impossible to determine exactly what percentage of the population they were.

 

However, we can make reasonable estimates.

 

This is because Halo: Reach not only had the data for the matchmaking population readily available, but it also included all online players in the total population. Thus, you can add up the populations for all the playlists together, and divide that number by the total population on Reach. If you do this, you will always get a number that is ~0.50. This means that at any given time for Reach, half of the population is not engaged in the only activities that would have been counted on the Halo 4 total population tracker. If we extrapolate a little bit by assuming that ratio was the same for Halo 4, then we can assume the real population for Halo 4 was double the number that was shown on Waypoint.

 

Unfortunately though, I don't think anyone ever pointed this out to people. So the population tracker become a source for much ridicule towards 343, so now they decided not to include any population tracker at all to avoid any such criticism in the future.

Even doubled, h4's population was still terrible.

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Even doubled, h4's population was still terrible.

True, but the situation wasn't nearly as bad as many people made it out to be.

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Snip.

That's interesting. I also remember people saying H3 used 24h total players and Reach didn't or something.

 

Despite all these factors, I think it's still safe to say that there's a clear donwards trend from H3 to Reach to H4 to H5G.

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That's interesting. I also remember people saying H3 used 24h total players and Reach didn't or something.

 

 

Those people are idiots.

 

You can easily look at the achieved homepages of bnet and see h3 had a 24hr and concurrent player counter.

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Despite all these factors, I think it's still safe to say that there's a clear downward trend from H3 to Reach to H4 to H5G.

Oh for sure, but it's been pretty gradual, all things considered. I really hope 343 can stop that trend, but I'm not letting my hopes up.

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Those people are idiots.

 

You can easily look at the achieved homepages of bnet and see h3 had a 24hr and concurrent player counter.

 

Oh good to know thanks. Yeah must've been reddit or Waypoint so not to far fetched that it was a dumbass who said that

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Vanilla H4 is pretty damn awful...

 

...but it didn't have the Reach DMR. 

 

But it did have a 5sk BR....

 

I went with The 4 as the worse launch experience, but Reach is still my least favorite game in the series overall. Bungie royally fucked over the series before letting go of the reins. They hold almost as much blame for where we are now as 343.

 

Thats so true but there are still people that want Bungie back cuz' nostalgia reasons, which blows my mind

 

Despite all these factors, I think it's still safe to say that there's a clear donwards trend from H3 to Reach to H4 to H5G.

 

I wouldn't say that's safe to say at all.  H5 is better than Reach, H4 and default H3 (non-MLG settings).  Those games had more features at launch that i frankly dont care about so i'm only considering gameplay here since 100% of my time is spent actually playing, not forging or any of that.

 

Halo 4 is one of the worst MP games that i have played.  I gave it the benefit of the doubt for much longer than i should have.  I played about 600 games of Halo 4 throughout its lifespan, and i have already played over 1500 games of Halo 5.

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I wouldn't say that's safe to say at all. H5 is better than Reach, H4 and default H3 (non-MLG settings). Those games had more features at launch that i frankly dont care about so i'm only considering gameplay here since 100% of my time is spent actually playing, not forging or any of that.

 

Halo 4 is one of the worst MP games that i have played. I gave it the benefit of the doubt for much longer than i should have. I played about 600 games of Halo 4 throughout its lifespan, and i have already played over 1500 games of Halo 5.

I was talking about population.

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I was talking about population.

 

Oooooh gotcha. then yeah.

 

@@Sal1ent came here and said that Halo 5 had the best player retention since Halo 3, but failed to elaborate on how they were calculating that be it player percentage, games played, total number, etc.  I highly doubt that it was just base concurrent players because there is no way that Halo 5 beats Reach in this regard and maybe it beats Halo 4, but Halo 4 sold more copies total so...

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Oooooh gotcha. then yeah.

 

@@Sal1ent came here and said that Halo 5 had the best player retention since Halo 3, but failed to elaborate on how they were calculating that be it player percentage, games played, total number, etc.  I highly doubt that it was just base concurrent players because there is no way that Halo 5 beats Reach in this regard and maybe it beats Halo 4, but Halo 4 sold more copies total so...

 

All of 343i's claims regarding population are based on the mighty "trust us" and there is literally zero evidence that they're true. Halotracker, the XBL top 10 and the sale numbers paint a different picture.

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I just wanted to quickly remind everyone that you could get a guy no shields in Reach, he'd armor lock, and come out with some shield and not be one shot anymore.  It was super fun.

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How was bloom worse than someone being able to spawn a sniper 5 feet in front of them? Halo 4 was worse in almost every way. Game didn't even have ranks ffs.

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Couple notes about Reach.

  • [*]Bloom in Reach did nothing but frustrate most players in default settings by introducing a bit of randomness into almost all DMR fights. Interestingly enough though, Reach SWAT is the best iteration of SWAT by far precisely because bloom damn near mandates that players must hit their first shot if they want to get a kill. The extreme emphasis that game type has on initial accuracy blended perfectly with it.
But if both players miss their first shot we're back to pure randomness again. I actually think swat was horrible in that game
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