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VinnyMendoza

Compressed Skill Gap: Current Halo and competitive FPS in general

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Ignoring Halo for a moment, even more "skillful" games have taken this route to some extent.

 

CSGO on release was nearly as bad of an offender as Halo 4. With some weapons, it was a more viable strategy to actually run and gun than to slow down, and aim. Anyone who used the negev on release would have realized this. And what else? This game tanked. CSGO, the most popular shooter right now, nearly died a month after release. Population charts show a launch population of about ~30k, dropping to about 10k in a month.

 

The game thankfully has came a long way since then, but it still has issues. Running inaccuracy on guns still allows a lot of "luck" based kills. For anyone that watched, Coldzera's jumping double no-scope is an example. There has always been some extent of "luck" when it came to CS's inaccuracy mechanics, it's just a lot more prevalent in CSGO than 1.6 (and more prevalent in Source also, which again, tanked the franchise years before MW2 was a game).

 

Pistols that are meant to be spammed rather than actually aimed are another issue. Some pistols even have 1sk headshots on enemies that have head armor (maybe this has been changed? I haven't played in some time).

 

This really is a franchise-wide issue, and I think some devs are putting in a lot of time and focus in determining ways do sacrifice a skill gap in favor of the so-called "slot machine" mentioned in the video.

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Sort of related but this is kind of how it's been for a long time if you think about the gaming industries progression from the 80's/90's. Think about how hard BattleToads was. Or Contra. I can't watch the video because it's blocked at work, but I will say I think skill has been exchanged for accessibility and ease in order to capture a larger audience for a lot of games. That sucks because personally I find a challenge more rewarding.

 

Wasn't there supposed to be a BioShock game that was "harder" in respect for the older generation of games?

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According to Waypoint and reddit 343 has never taken a single idea from COD or any other game.

 

So, idk what this video is going on about.

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Sort of related but this is kind of how it's been for a long time if you think about the gaming industries progression from the 80's/90's. Think about how hard BattleToads was. Or Contra. I can't watch the video because it's blocked at work, but I will say I think skill has been exchanged for accessibility and ease in order to capture a larger audience for a lot of games. That sucks because personally I find a challenge more rewarding.

 

Wasn't there supposed to be a BioShock game that was "harder" in respect for the older generation of games?

 

I mean a lot of old games were hard because there wasn't a lot of content so they had to stretch it via difficulty.

 

But yeah it's created a huge divide between older players who have insane skills because they are used to difficult games and are willing to put in the work and newer players who want to feel like gods immediately.

 

I must admit I fall victim to this for some single player games. I expect the game to be accessible enough. I prefer to try a bunch of different games on normal instead of pushing myself to the limit for 20 hours in a 10 hour game on hard mode, and if the game's mechanics are tight then I want to keep playing over and over on more challenging modes (like Halo, FEAR, the new DOOM, Project Gotham Racing 2 back in the day going for platinum medals). But I haven't even bothered with Dark Souls because I know it will frustrate me to no end right off the bat. But for multiplayer I expect a decent skill gap and minimal hand holding or attempts to make you feel better than you really are. The first few times I played Rocket League I felt like I chump but the game at least was easy enough for me to drive around in and make some clears so I could contribute a little. Over time I have gotten much better and better and it feels rewarding. I think that, and the fact that at lower levels the game is just FUNNY when you're playing like thumbless idiots and bashing into each other and missing the ball completely, is why it is so popular. It's not frustrating to suck, it's just funny, and the driving and rocket boosting feels so good to play with that you have fun regardless. There's no bullshit progression system. There's ranked playlists and you can mentally feel the pressure to make better plays as you rank up and play with the big boys. That's a perfect multiplayer system.

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I actually love the CoD series, but there's always been one thing that annoys me, and that is the guns dont shoot straight. Theres too much randomness in the spread.

 

I understand its a casual game anyway, but if they made the guns shoot straight I might have a little more care for competitive. Similar to some problems Halo has had over the years really.

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Honestly though I don't think the big issue with the new CODs or even h5 is a compression of skill gap. The big issue is a loss of brand identity.

 

These two franchises have lost the gameplay, look, and feel that people identify them with. There's a disconnect that a lot of players just can't get over it.

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Yeah definitely can agree with that. Especially with art style, both Halo and CoD look very different from what they used to look like.

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Feel like CoD embraced the future way too hard and the game every year cycle punished the series. After BO3 and the hate IW is getting (even though the campaign looks to be a fun one) I think we'll see Battlefield make a resurgece. I think the short attention span of gamers is what really drives devs crazy because one minute everyone loves the future so CoD/Halo/everyone embraces it then everyone hates it and wants to go back. Skill wise CoD has always been about twitchy reaction times and seeing someone before they see you. Halo has been about controlling power weapons, better parts of the map, and shot placement. I feel that you could easily argue Halo 4 had an odd skill gap due to the ordance drops and the like, but Halo 5: Guardians has done a great job coming back to a more traditional Halo-y skill gap.

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Feel like CoD embraced the future way too hard and the game every year cycle punished the series. After BO3 and the hate IW is getting (even though the campaign looks to be a fun one) I think we'll see Battlefield make a resurgece. I think the short attention span of gamers is what really drives devs crazy because one minute everyone loves the future so CoD/Halo/everyone embraces it then everyone hates it and wants to go back. Skill wise CoD has always been about twitchy reaction times and seeing someone before they see you. Halo has been about controlling power weapons, better parts of the map, and shot placement. I feel that you could easily argue Halo 4 had an odd skill gap due to the ordance drops and the like, but Halo 5: Guardians has done a great job coming back to a more traditional Halo-y skill gap.

It's not that "everyone loves space and then doesn't". It's just that every dev tries to do the exact same thing at the exact same time and people get bored and burnt out.

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It's not that "everyone loves space and then doesn't". It's just that every dev tries to do the exact same thing at the exact same time and people get bored and burnt out.

Right, AAA developers approach their games like Hilary Clinton approaches politics. They decide what they should be doing based on what's popular at the time, with absolutely no regard for market saturation, creativity, or personal identity. It's like the MOBA trend (I think that's mostly died out). DotA and LoL became super popular, so everybody and their fucking uncle wanted to make a MOBA game and the market became over-saturated with exactly the same shit. Meanwhile, DotA and League's populations remained pretty stable and no one gave a shit about all of the knock-offs, because people liked THOSE game specifically. And what is left in the aftermath? The games that were originally popular and maybe Smite?

 

Exactly the same thing happened with every developer jumping on the sci-fi setting and trying to poach CoD's audience by introducing similar kinds of skill gap compression and random bullshit. CoD players still play CoD.  Everyone else gets burnt out on "sci-fi shooters" and gets fucking tired of playing games by developers too fixated on CoD's audience to pay attention to their own. I don't understand why they keep doing it. It has never actually worked.

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I understand what the gripe is but at the same time it's not as if there's a decent game that would entice people away from the CoD style which is obviously rewarding to newer players but they're also polished and fluid to play. The counter argument is that 'gameplay > all' but it doesn't match reality, with top 3 western shooters at the moment (CoD / CSGO / Overwatch) the only thing that ties them together is that they're considered well created and a full package.

 

CSGO is also a massive outlier which is both skillful and challenging for the top spot of shooters in terms of popularity. It might not be in the same areas but CSGO has grown to be as skillful as it's predecessor 1.6.

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Right, AAA developers approach their games like Hilary Clinton approaches politics. They decide what they should be doing based on what's popular at the time, with absolutely no regard for market saturation, creativity, or personal identity. It's like the MOBA trend (I think that's mostly died out). DotA and LoL became super popular, so everybody and their fucking uncle wanted to make a MOBA game and the market became over-saturated with exactly the same shit. Meanwhile, DotA and League's populations remained pretty stable and no one gave a shit about all of the knock-offs, because people liked THOSE game specifically. And what is left in the aftermath? The games that were originally popular and maybe Smite?

 

Exactly the same thing happened with every developer jumping on the sci-fi setting and trying to poach CoD's audience by introducing similar kinds of skill gap compression and random bullshit. CoD players still play CoD. Everyone else gets burnt out on "sci-fi shooters" and gets fucking tired of playing games by developers too fixated on CoD's audience to pay attention to their own. I don't understand why they keep doing it. It has never actually worked.

It truly does boggle the mind. I wonder how many lower tiered workers at these devs think the management decisions are dumb.

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I think DOOM is the biggest victim of this, the single player is fucking incredible and the multiplayer is full of modern gimmicky bullshit that ruins the game. It's like they said ok do what you want to please hardcore fans with the campaign but we need the cod and halo players for multiplayer to be successful... Which isn't the case at all.

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I think DOOM is the biggest victim of this, the single player is fucking incredible and the multiplayer is full of modern gimmicky bullshit that ruins the game. It's like they said ok do what you want to please hardcore fans with the campaign but we need the cod and halo players for multiplayer to be successful... Which isn't the case at all.

Ya, if the MP was like the SP it would be getting serious hype.

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After going back to BO1 this weeks, I really want them to go back to boots on ground. I thought I wouldn't like the slower pace and lack of boost after playing so much BO3, but im enjoying it a hell of a lot more.

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agreed. Unless youre playing in the HCS the skill gap is non existent from diamond up to champion. but halo is suffering from much bigger problems at the moment that need to be adressed first.

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Ya, if the MP was like the SP it would be getting serious hype.

Yea, DOOM's single player stuck to its older roots so much, I had a FKN blast. The multiplayer is just plagued by super shotguns and combat shotguns sniping you across the map. Or the unreal amount of health and armor pickups where you unleash about 2 clips into someone they run over a health pick up and two shot you with their shotgun. Multiplayer "has" potential but then again what games don't, it's all about these studios making changes.

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agreed. Unless youre playing in the HCS the skill gap is non existent from diamond up to champion. but halo is suffering from much bigger problems at the moment that need to be adressed first.

 

You think that there is little difference in skill from Diamond-Champ?

 

...? I have to disagree.

 

If you were to say the skill gap could stand to be wider, I could get on board, but that is an extreme exaggeration.

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If you were to say the skill gap could stand to be wider, I could get on board, but that is an extreme exaggeration.

 

That's not just normal exaggeration... that's advanced exaggeration. 

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There is definitely a large skill gap between Diamond, onyx and champ.

 

I think sometimes the ranks just get a little mixed up because of the lack of party restrictions. Sometimes I play someone who's pretty good and they're diamond and I just assume this person is stuck in solo que purgatory. Then i'll play kids that are onyx and even champ that in game I assumed were diamond of even plat. I assume those kids play a lot on teams of 4.

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I'm impressed with Overwatch's skill gap. There's a decent amount of individual skill required on just about every class but the team skill required is incredible. Halo 5 has a decent skill gap. There isn't much depth I find in the gameplay itself but it has a lot of mechanical skill required. Doom's skill gap is pure dog shit. People a million times worse than me can get an easy kill with the shotguns. Regardless it's still a ton of fun to play.

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I'm impressed with Overwatch's skill gap. There's a decent amount of individual skill required on just about every class but the team skill required is incredible. Halo 5 has a decent skill gap. There isn't much depth I find in the gameplay itself but it has a lot of mechanical skill required. Doom's skill gap is pure dog shit. People a million times worse than me can get an easy kill with the shotguns. Regardless it's still a ton of fun to play.

I played the game for a couple matches before I had enough of the input lag. From what I've heard, some say it's FPS based. What's your average fps, and do you feel any input lag?

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