Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
CyReN

Quake Champions Discussion

Recommended Posts

cahKljk.png

Guess we won't be getting equal starting weapons

 

He knows he's lying to himself with the "it's not classes, it's champions". That's what bothers me so much about the development of this game. It's not that it isn't arena, it's that they're not even confident enough about their own game that they have to try to sell it as something that it isn't. And this isn't opinion. It's like if Epic said "Gears of War isn't third-person, it's behind-the-character and the character isn't centered." It's just playing around with logistics to misguide potential consumers. No matter if you prefer arena, class, hero, or whatever shooter, this is not a good sign. It's a complete lack of confidence in their own product.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

cahKljk.png

Guess we won't be getting equal starting weapons

 

This has always been a controversial topic among Quakers but if there was one thing I would be open to experimenting with in Quake would be the change of the starting default weapon in modes outside of DM and Duel mode which utilize different rule-sets. The mg has always been lackluster as a starting weapon(nobody ever mentions the mg as one of their favorite weapons in Quake) and its only useful for finishing players off, which is by design obviously, but if there is one thing I instantly liked more about UT than Quake when I started playing it was the starting weapon of the enforcer(semi-auto pistol) over the machine gun.

 

The enforcer not only can be used adequately as protection off spawn until you get to better weapons but it can be deadly when duel-wielded as well.  It also has a higher skill-gap with head-shots doing more damage. Its also a factor in why I feel that some people gravitated towards UT as a team game over Quake later on. Now obviously the games are quite different and it might be heresy to some players to suggest it(Some QW players still hate the introduction of the RG to this day because they think it make Quake too hit-scan dominant and defensive) but its one thing I wouldn't mind them experimenting with in the gameplay formula. Now, I dont want load-outs and I dont like the idea of starting with a shotgun, but I would not mind them experimenting with the starting weapon in different team game-types especially in a new game. Here is to hoping id doesn't mess this up and I am able to add QC to my collection. My original Quake disk-tray was lost unfortunately awhile back and Quake 4 isn't there because it doesn't deserve to be. Will QC make the cut?  :thinking:

CpS0losUIAAnlpo.jpg

Share this post


Link to post

No classes, you can only choose the weapon you are starting with... there we go, starting to act like Halo devs.

 

This game will be trash I tell you. No idea why people are getting hyped for it. It's not Quake, they use the name because it's known and force all kinds of modern bullshit into the game. Stuff that fucks with the gameplay we expect out of a Quake game tbh.


 

Share this post


Link to post

No classes, you can only choose the weapon you are starting with... there we go, starting to act like Halo devs.

 

This game will be trash I tell you. No idea why people are getting hyped for it. It's not Quake, they use the name because it's known and force all kinds of modern bullshit into the game. Stuff that fucks with the gameplay we expect out of a Quake game tbh.

 

 

lol you're comparing this with halo................Bruh they didn't just change a couple mechanics they made a shooter of an entirely different genre.What happened with halo was bad but this is on an entirely different level.

Share this post


Link to post

lol you're comparing this with halo................Bruh they didn't just change a couple mechanics they made a shooter of an entirely different genre.What happened with halo was bad but this is on an entirely different level.

 

This was my initial reaction as well, from the leaked gameplay(now taken down) I saw and from the vets I heard from at Quakecon that actually got to play the game they say it played like classic Quake. The way the champions are set up in QC are not like classes or load-outs, they just cater to different segments of the existing Quake player-base(which never has agreed on anything) and cater towards a loosely defined "play-style" but the champions are not going to force you into roles like Overwatch does.

 

If you want to play like CPMA then you choose Ranger which has CPMA air control, if not, choose the other champion that moves more like vq3. Want to move like in QW? You choose Anarki that has QW air control but less base health.If you want to play like QW you just create a custom game with only QW style champions allowed, disable the ultimates and there you go.

 

As long as the whole champions concept does not effect weapon damage/accuracy and just lets you play like you're playing a different Quake game I could see it as being beneficial if its done right and they dont go overboard with it. Who knows, maybe it could even add an additional layer of strategy. Like say you want the flag carrier as Anarki because she's the most elusive while someone playing defensively would pick a champion with higher base health. Its definitely a fine line, but Quake will always be about skill-based encounters and fast-paced Arena FPS gameplay the champions wont decide encounters. 

 

If the champions and ultimate abilities create a "bridge" for OW/TF2 players or otherwise to start playing Quake Champions more power to them. Some Quake/UT pros are even playing comp OW right now and can show those players how great Quake/UT is. I am going to try and be objective here and not judge the game before I get to play it because I want it to succeed for the community and id. Less we remember QW players hated Q2 test in the beginning as well(rail-gun domination, increased weapon damage changed the entire game) and TONS of players hated Q3A in the beginning(SLOW compared to QW, RG still OP, no air control,ect..) why do you think CPMA was created? But those games eventually developed into quality Quake games in their own right. Sometimes people forget that about Q3A even though its so heralded today(rightfully so), the community and the mods that came after it really made the game into one of the best FPS ever. Quake champions deserves the opportunity to do the same before being written off as something it clearly is not.

 

id/Bethesda are said to be really pushing QC for e-sports and I dont think its entirely a bad thing if both CTF/TDM and Duel are featured if team modes are going to be emphasized more. Quake CTF has always been a way more popular game-type anyways and its been run in tournaments before and people have loved watching it. I see legends like Fatality streaming UT4 just demolishing people in duel and nobody watches despite the gameplay being absolutely amazing. Same thing with QL, guys like cooller stream it regularly and nobody watches. People just dont care about skill-gaps in FPS like they used to. 95 plus percent of modern players have never watched/played Quake or other fast-paced DM FPS. its all about team FPS now and Quake has to try to stay relevant in other ways with the modern FPS audience as much as I hate it.

Share this post


Link to post

lol you're comparing this with halo................Bruh they didn't just change a couple mechanics they made a shooter of an entirely different genre.What happened with halo was bad but this is on an entirely different level.

 

That's not what I meant, I was talking about devs lying about features.

 

This was my initial reaction as well, from the leaked gameplay(now taken down) I saw and from the vets I heard from at Quakecon that actually got to play the game they say it played like classic Quake. The way the champions are set up in QC are not like classes or load-outs, they just cater to different segments of the existing Quake player-base(which never has agreed on anything) and cater towards a loosely defined "play-style" but the champions are not going to force you into roles like Overwatch does.

 

If you want to play like CPMA then you choose Ranger which has CPMA air control, if not, choose the other champion that moves more like vq3. Want to move like in QW? You choose Anarki that has QW air control but less base health.If you want to play like QW you just create a custom game with only QW style champions allowed, disable the ultimates and there you go.

 

As long as the whole champions concept does not effect weapon damage/accuracy and just lets you play like you're playing a different Quake game I could see it as being beneficial if its done right and they dont go overboard with it. Who knows, maybe it could even add an additional layer of strategy. Like say you want the flag carrier as Anarki because she's the most elusive while someone playing defensively would pick a champion with higher base health. Its definitely a fine line, but Quake will always be about skill-based encounters and fast-paced Arena FPS gameplay the champions wont decide encounters. 

 

If the champions and ultimate abilities create a "bridge" for OW/TF2 players or otherwise to start playing Quake Champions more power to them. Some Quake/UT pros are even playing comp OW right now and can show those players how great Quake/UT is. I am going to try and be objective here and not judge the game before I get to play it because I want it to succeed for the community and id. Less we remember QW players hated Q2 test in the beginning as well(rail-gun domination, increased weapon damage changed the entire game) and TONS of players hated Q3A in the beginning(SLOW compared to QW, RG still OP, no air control,ect..) why do you think CPMA was created? But those games eventually developed into quality Quake games in their own right. Sometimes people forget that about Q3A even though its so heralded today(rightfully so), the community and the mods that came after it really made the game into one of the best FPS ever. Quake champions deserves the opportunity to do the same before being written off as something it clearly is not.

 

id/Bethesda are said to be really pushing QC for e-sports and I dont think its entirely a bad thing if both CTF/TDM and Duel are featured if team modes are going to be emphasized more. Quake CTF has always been a way more popular game-type anyways and its been run in tournaments before and people have loved watching it. I see legends like Fatality streaming UT4 just demolishing people in duel and nobody watches despite the gameplay being absolutely amazing. Same thing with QL, guys like cooller stream it regularly and nobody watches. People just dont care about skill-gaps in FPS like they used to. 95 plus percent of modern players have never watched/played Quake or other fast-paced DM FPS. its all about team FPS now and Quake has to try to stay relevant in other ways with the modern FPS audience as much as I hate it.

 

Well if you want to make a game that modern kids play you probably have to have classes and champions and bullshit moba like "ultis" but that's not what anyone of the AFPS scene wants. Don't start with the "you can spawn a custom server and disable xy" we all know that nobody will play like that if the tournaments are with the default BS settings. That also takes my interest as a whole, they are not making a game with champions to disable them in the tournaments because that would be dumb.

 

It's a fact that their focus is not on AFPS gameplay since they force in modern stuff because they think that might increase the player count. It probably will since todays people get hyped by trailers rather than gameplay videos. Kids want to be a superhero in a shooter with all kinds of cool looking abilities, that's what matters if you want to sell your game to 14 y/o kids, not the amazingly large skillgap.

It will work, maybe you swap all the oldschool players with teenagers who jumped on the trailer hypetrain but that's not their problem since they just care about the numbers.

 

Classic Quake always had equal starts and if you take that away I am out. As I said multiple times Reflex is way more focussed on gameplay and I don't know why anyone in this thread would rather play QC than Reflex since QC is a sellout to cater to modern kids which didn't even know that Quake existed until they saw the QC trailer.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

That's not what I meant, I was talking about devs lying about features.

 

 

Well if you want to make a game that modern kids play you probably have to have classes and champions and bullshit moba like "ultis" but that's not what anyone of the AFPS scene wants. Don't start with the "you can spawn a custom server and disable xy" we all know that nobody will play like that if the tournaments are with the default BS settings. That also takes my interest as a whole, they are not making a game with champions to disable them in the tournaments because that would be dumb.

 

It's a fact that their focus is not on AFPS gameplay since they force in modern stuff because they think that might increase the player count. It probably will since todays people get hyped by trailers rather than gameplay videos. Kids want to be a superhero in a shooter with all kinds of cool looking abilities, that's what matters if you want to sell your game to 14 y/o kids, not the amazingly large skillgap.

It will work, maybe you swap all the oldschool players with teenagers who jumped on the trailer hypetrain but that's not their problem since they just care about the numbers.

 

Classic Quake always had equal starts and if you take that away I am out. As I said multiple times Reflex is way more focussed on gameplay and I don't know why anyone in this thread would rather play QC than Reflex since QC is a sellout to cater to modern kids which didn't even know that Quake existed until they saw the QC trailer.

 

 

And Reflex is basically a carbon copy Quake 3 CPMA(the devs which are CPMA players even admitted it) with better graphics does that make it better?All I am saying is If you take an objective look at Quake Champions and not base QC's champions on other shooters(mainly OW which everyone is comparing it to) you will see that the champions are for the most part nothing more than characters from Quake 1-3 with the movement attributes from those games with a one-time special ability that is on a 40 sec CD. Game-breaking? I think not. Equal starts are an identifying factor of Quake but from what I have heard and seen it hardly really matters. Its still going to be the same Quake where if one player is stacked and the other isn't its not going to matter if you chose the champion with slightly less base health. QW players will love Anarki because she's faster and has QW air control, Q3 CPMA players will love Ranger because of CPMA physics, ect.. it could unify the fan-base IF done correctly. I think what they did in QL with adding significant primary load-outs is much more of a game-changer than what QC is attempting to do with champions.

 

Everyone bitching now will be in on the beta day 1 anyways and they know it. I dont like everything I see either but things are subject to change that is why they are having a public beta and are responding to feedback. When everyone sees Fatality vs Rapha in a show-case match set-up by id/Bethesda or some other epic match-up everyone will see its true Quake and the king is back. Everyone knows QC(and possibly UT4 if Epic stops messing up the movement) has the best chance of any Arena FPS to bring the genre back to prominence and a legitimate chance to be picked up by major e-sport leagues and they will be there day 1 if they are true Quake fans.

Share this post


Link to post

They definitely need to add bots in this game. I'm way too rusty to be playing seasoned players. Getting my ass handed to me, which is technically a good thing but I wish there was a proper bot mode to brush up on.

CAme on here thikning there was QC news...

Share this post


Link to post

Been sitting here waiting for any kind of news on Lawbreakers, Quake Champions, or Diabotical.  Just desperately refreshing all their pages each day and digging for anything.  Sadly there's nothing new available.

 

However in the process of digging I did find some interesting things.

 

First, someone re-uploaded the leaked gameplay that was taken off of youtube

 

Fair warning it's a bit loud and potato quality, but some things can be gleamed from it.

-There will be a healer-esque champion that can drop totem poles to heal teammates.

-They've taken abilities into account with their map design, mention of a Rocket that can only be reached through someone's teleport ability.

 

Also, through another leaked gameplay that can no longer be found, someone discovered this:

http://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/jN7EoNfbFxSiULPJqLAM8g-650-80.jpg

 

Which is concerning, but I wouldn't knee-jerk just yet.  There's no way they would be incompetent enough to design a full time shield in a Quake game.  My guess is either it's a very brief (half a second) shield on a short cooldown...or maybe a slightly long shield on a very extreme cooldown.

Share this post


Link to post

Been sitting here waiting for any kind of news on Lawbreakers, Quake Champions, or Diabotical.  Just desperately refreshing all their pages each day and digging for anything.  Sadly there's nothing new available.

 

However in the process of digging I did find some interesting things.

 

First, someone re-uploaded the leaked gameplay that was taken off of youtube

 

Fair warning it's a bit loud and potato quality, but some things can be gleamed from it.

-There will be a healer-esque champion that can drop totem poles to heal teammates.

-They've taken abilities into account with their map design, mention of a Rocket that can only be reached through someone's teleport ability.

 

Also, through another leaked gameplay that can no longer be found, someone discovered this:

http://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/jN7EoNfbFxSiULPJqLAM8g-650-80.jpg

 

Which is concerning, but I wouldn't knee-jerk just yet.  There's no way they would be incompetent enough to design a full time shield in a Quake game.  My guess is either it's a very brief (half a second) shield on a short cooldown...or maybe a slightly long shield on a very extreme cooldown.

 

I remember watching that gameplay and feeling much better about QC, it looks pretty Q3ish game-play wise outside of the abilities and I am more open to abilities(as long as they are on long CD's and are semi-balanced) like teleport than other players who think anything outside of the basic Quake formula is heresy. I dont know how a healer-type champion in Quake ever passed the conception stage, but I dont see how it could be useful outside of CTF pubs TBH with the speed of the gameplay.

 

I talked to very knowledgeable people in the Quake community who were at Quakecon(who got to watch/play the game) who said we have nothing to worry about as far as the champions being game-changers and they said they hardly noticed the differences between them. Worst case scenario, a CPMA-type QC mod is featured in comp play that removes most of the abilities and such.

 

 

To add to your AFPS list I am very excited about Romero's and Adrian Carmack's new FPS. Romero's games are a large part of my childhood and every FPS he has created has always been ground-breaking in its own way. Ill admit I got a little emotional when I saw that him and Adrian(aka the Godfathers of the FPS) are teaming up again to make a new IP. His FPS and level designs are so distinctive and he always has put creating kickass FPS game-play above all else which I love.

 

Every interview and video I have seen about the game makes me think it could be a real game-changer gameplay wise(as Romero put it "Anything is possible in Blackroom at any-time) and it would no doubt be a huge hit in the mod community with the potential for unlimited environments and gameplay. It could be like DOOM on steroids in terms of the mod community! I also love that in interviews hes adamant that Blackroom is for fans of his FPS-style and old-school FPS in general and that he could care less about what other shooters are doing! So refreshing to to hear that kind of candid response in this day and age. The man is like the Hidetaka Miyazaki(Dark Souls creator) of the FPS industry, we NEED him and he has came back from the dead again to save our great FPS genre! Blackroom could do for hardcore FPS what Dark Souls did for hardcore action RPG's with enough support. All hail the return of Romero! The movement has begun, just look at the excitement in the comment section of that video nothing but elation(and dumb Daikatana 2 jokes about Romero making us his bitch again lol ;) )! His return marks the beginning of the new AFPS golden age! If they get more quality developers working on it could be my next addiction lol.  :D

Share this post


Link to post

I wish that in order to make a games settings for esports that it would stop taking a mod to do so. in game settings should be designed in a way to provide a wide variety of gameplay options.

Share this post


Link to post

I'm fairly open minded about new additions.  Loadouts containing only the weak weapons are fine, though I fail to see the point (I imagine the majority of people will just pick Shotgun).  Abilities aren't too bad either as long as they're offensive or mobile in nature and not defensive like fucking armor lock. 

 

But it's still a grave mistake to have no plans on including classic settings in the game.  Really alienating your core fanbase for no reason.

 

What I'd like to see more than abilities though is some weapon rebalancing and addition of new weapons similar to what Team Arena did for Quake 3.
 

 

 

Everyone bitching now will be in on the beta day 1 anyways and they know it.

 

Lmfao, you right tho.

Share this post


Link to post

I'm probably more optimistic about this game than some, but I'm still concerned. I don't think internally developed Id games tend to be bad, so I certainly don't think this game will be. However, I've said before elsewhere that arena shooters represent a unique opportunity in the "eSports" industry right now and they are well-positioned to take advantage of it by providing a high quality, modern experience with a budget. If they can provide a long term platform, they can establish a new Quake as the top dog in the return of competitive arena shooters. Being a unique experience in the current market is good. Looking more like the current wave of "hero shooters" is not. I hope that element of the game (however relatively minor from a mechanical perspective) doesn't get in the way of the game's potential success and influence.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

I'm fairly open minded about new additions.  Loadouts containing only the weak weapons are fine, though I fail to see the point (I imagine the majority of people will just pick Shotgun).  Abilities aren't too bad either as long as they're offensive or mobile in nature and not defensive like fucking armor lock. 

 

But it's still a grave mistake to have no plans on including classic settings in the game.  Really alienating your core fanbase for no reason.

 

What I'd like to see more than abilities though is some weapon rebalancing and addition of new weapons similar to what Team Arena did for Quake 3.

 

 

 

 

Lmfao, you right tho.

Quake is turning into DOOM imao, there will be nothing but n00b shotgun+plasma gun spammers. :wow: Jk,although the DOOM shotgun is much more versatile/better than Quake's ever was.

 

If you have been following recent developments, Id already confirmed there is going to be classic settings and classic dual but they wont be included in the MM rotation, although they say that is still subject to change. We do know there will be ranked playlists however, and you would think that the competitive community will get ALOT of input on the settings for those(although it is id were talking about so who really knows!) The movement and pace seemed Q3-like which is a positive(and comp play will be faster), and I know there are faster champions like Anarki and slower ones like Ranger(without air control) so people will be able to pick the champion that fits them best.

 

I know some people hate me for saying this but Quake's Sandbox although really balanced could use some innovation its 2017! I know there were alot of Q3 mods that added in all sorts of new weapons, but for one I would like some sort of pistol or semi-automatic starting weapon option because I am not and never was a fan of the mg its just so meh. :eyes:

 

I'm probably more optimistic about this game than some, but I'm still concerned. I don't think internally developed Id games tend to be bad, so I certainly don't think this game will be. However, I've said before elsewhere that arena shooters represent a unique opportunity in the "eSports" industry right now and they are well-positioned to take advantage of it by providing a high quality, modern experience with a budget. If they can provide a long term platform, they can establish a new Quake as the top dog in the return of competitive arena shooters. Being a unique experience in the current market is good. Looking more like the current wave of "hero shooters" is not. I hope that element of the game (however relatively minor from a mechanical perspective) doesn't get in the way of the game's potential success and influence.

 

Quake champions will play like Quake, not a "hero shooter" like Overwatch. That I know for sure. And if somehow it doesn't a CPMA-like mod will be created and we will use that! The day I log into Quake and have to listen to Tracer vs Genji/ 3 tank+ 2 healer-support meta OP BLIZZ NERF PLZ!/ect and there is like a 200 page thread on ESR of fanboys arguing back and forth over which champion is "EZ mode and OP" and which is "for skilled players only" is the day Quake dies imo and I never play again! I am fine with some pro players potentially having a favorite champion they use because it fits their play-style(offensive vs defensive,movement-based vs rail-lightning gun heavy,ect..) and that being part of the meta but never do I want that disease to infect Quake, a pure strategy and skill game! Quake should be like 3D speed-chess with guns and rocket-jumping! 

Share this post


Link to post

Quake champions will play like Quake, not a "hero shooter" like Overwatch. That I know for sure. And if somehow it doesn't a CPMA-like mod will be created and we will use that! The day I log into Quake and have to listen to Tracer vs Genji/ 3 tank+ 2 healer-support meta OP BLIZZ NERF PLZ!/ect and there is like a 200 page thread on ESR of fanboys arguing back and forth over which champion is "EZ mode and OP" and which is "for skilled players only" is the day Quake dies imo and I never play again! I am fine with some pro players potentially having a favorite champion they use because it fits their play-style(offensive vs defensive,movement-based vs rail-lightning gun heavy,ect..) and that being part of the meta but never do I want that disease to infect Quake, a pure strategy and skill game! Quake should be like 3D speed-chess with guns and rocket-jumping! 

 

It's not so much that I'm expecting it to play like Overwatch as I am concerned by the way this potentially compromises the unique identity of the game and alienates veterans and newcomers. There is no big arena shooter right now and the "champions" shit is obviously not what their hardcore competitive audience is interested in. It's hard to say what jumping on the hero shooter bandwagon will do for them, regardless of how superficial the hero shooter elements ultimately are. Are they angling themselves toward a potentially oversaturated hero shooter market? Will it be another trend that ends with people still just playing the first couple of games that got big? Beyond that, obviously, I just think that shit is completely unnecessary for Quake.

 

That said, Rainbow Six Siege is basically a hero shooter and it doesn't play anything like Overwatch, nor does that element really compromise the kind of tactical shooter experience one would expect from that franchise. Hopefully, Champions can achieve that kind of success for Quake.

Share this post


Link to post

Looks like players drop armor on death in that video. Don't know how I feel about that

 

Scoring a point, gaining map control, securing pick-ups, etc, is reward enough for getting a kill imo.

 

It does incentivize a bit of movement, might let players in riskier areas of the map survive longer...still seems like a bad change to me.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Scoring a point, gaining map control, securing pick-ups, etc, is reward enough for getting a kill imo.

 

It does incentivize a bit of movement, might let players in riskier areas of the map survive longer...still seems like a bad change to me.

I'm inclined to agree, but considering Quake is no longer a 1v1 game primarily it's not AS big of a deal I think. In a team environment it already becomes pretty much impossible to keep track of all the non major pickups and who has them, dropping armor from a kill isn't going to change much besides pushing a bit more. It's not a great change but whatever

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Pff.

 

I could see this game have a following similar to Halo 5 where there's initial excitement, but then it drops off quickly. Then they fund a couple tourneys and some new blood jump onto the money, with maaaaaaaybe one or two OG Quake players.

 

This isn't gonna be that great. I can already feel it.

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.