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Quake Champions Discussion

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the new quake is gonna be so fucking bad.....everything that john carmack and john romero built up means nothing to bethesda 

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I literally can't believe it.  The king of arena shooter turned into a fucking class based shooter.

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i dont think the abilities are going to be drastic ala overwatch.  it might be normal quake gameplay with different characters having an ultimate ability like a wallhack for 10 seconds or a short teleport ablility.  

 

i cant judge it until i see actual gameplay.  

 

but if it was just a normal arena shooter, shit will be low population a week after release.  they want a shooter with a lot of players.  stuff has to change in order for that to happen.  otherwise we might as well just keep playing quake live.  

 

the new UT has less players than QL,  better graphics, better features (even if its still in pre alpha), its free, but no one plays it.  

 

the gameplay has to change to get more players.  i'd rather they try something new because at the end of the day there'll always be quake live, reflex, warsaw and what do all these have in common?  low population ( very low)

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If they really make it a class based shooter then nobody will be happy. The fans will hopefully change their minds because I'm pretty sure everyone that ever played that game would never ask for that. I'm going to need to really see the game though before I'll just call it trash.

 

I completely disagree about the gameplay needing to change to get more players though. They have their market and if they try to change they'll just lose what they already do have and fail to take people from other genres/games that do what they do better than a half baked Quake/modern shooter hybrid. See Halo 5. Humans didn't just suddenly change. Good gameplay will remain good and fun is still fun. The new UT has no players because their marketing is nonexistent. Most people don't even know it exists. 

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If they really make it a class based shooter then nobody will be happy. The fans will hopefully change their minds because I'm pretty sure everyone that ever played that game would never ask for that. I'm going to need to really see the game though before I'll just call it trash.

 

I completely disagree about the gameplay needing to change to get more players though. Humans didn't just suddenly change. Good gameplay will remain good and fun is still fun. The new UT has no players because their marketing is nonexistent. Most people don't even know it exists. 

 

its actually apparent in quake.  whats the most popular game mode?  clan arena.   a mode that totally contradicts what an arena shooter is.  

 

and UT has had some events on twitch.  they even flew in phantom lord lol.  not huge marketing but that still should bring in more players than QL.   

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i dont think the abilities are going to be drastic ala overwatch.  it might be normal quake gameplay with different characters having an ultimate ability like a wallhack for 10 seconds or a short teleport ablility.  

 

i cant judge it until i see actual gameplay.  

 

but if it was just a normal arena shooter, shit will be low population a week after release.  they want a shooter with a lot of players.  stuff has to change in order for that to happen.  otherwise we might as well just keep playing quake live.  

 

the new UT has less players than QL,  better graphics, better features (even if its still in pre alpha), its free, but no one plays it.  

 

the gameplay has to change to get more players.  i'd rather they try something new because at the end of the day there'll always be quake live, reflex, warsaw and what do all these have in common?  low population ( very low)

 

CSGO retains the same core and has the one of the largest populations ever. 

 

What quake needs is modern social updates like skins, playlists, map building, matchmaking, and all that other stuff. Also the new UT is in alpha with very little advertising from Epic. The new DOOM got the full AAA game experience and it did very for being a campaign-centric game, do the same to quake and people will know.

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CSGO retains the same core and has the one of the largest populations ever. 

 

What quake needs is modern social updates like skins, playlists, map building, matchmaking, and all that other stuff. Also the new UT is in alpha with very little advertising from Epic. The new DOOM got the full AAA game experience and it did very for being a campaign-centric game, do the same to quake and people will know.

thanks to skins THAT HAVE VALUE

 

you can't just use CSGO as an example. out of the three valve games with microtransactions it has the most healthiest market place.  

 

not only that but a big part of "pure arena shooters" are things like force enemy model options.  that completely diminishes the value of skins.  why would anyone want to get character skins if people can just force how everyone looks like.

 

i wrote up an article years ago on esreality about skins.  every single rebuttal made sense.  hence everyone hated the idea.  weapon skins would make it harder to distinguish what an opponent is currently using.  ect ect ect

 

the new doom single player is highly praised but thats single player.  

 

and like i said before.  clan arena.  complete contradiction of quake gameplay is yup the most popular thing in quake live.  

 

people (quake purists) dont want new things like abilities yet majority of ql players play a gametype that isnt even quake

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and thats actually the biggest problem of quake live.  the big diversity of gametypes that contradict one another.   things just dont line up

 

clan arena - 1 life, everyone starts full stack, all weapons.  no pickups on the map, cant do self damage

 

ffa - normal ql gameplay

 

duel - normal ql gameplay 1v1

 

tdm - ql gameplay BUT weapons spawn way longer 

 

ctf - ql gameplay but with runes and shit

 

freeze tag - wtf

 

theres too many differences in terms of how things work between each game mode.   nothing is cohesive.  

 

for most games usually with different gametypes everything gameplay mechanic wise is the same the only thing different is the objective.  but ql is just a clusterfuck.  hopefully champions fixes this issue.  

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I still have some hope that there will be a decent duel mode that keeps most of the BS out. Worst case scenario, there's still some people playing QW/Q3/QL/Reflex.

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guess they didn't hire actual pro quake players to see what they want.

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I don't know. Maybe they brought on a pro team similar to 343's for Halo 5. That would explain the apparent results quite well.  :wutface:

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I still have some hope that there will be a decent duel mode that keeps most of the BS out. Worst case scenario, there's still some people playing QW/Q3/QL/Reflex.

I was still playing quake live up until last week when I heard that rapha was quitting after quake con :(

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I can see where it's easy to jump the gun and assume things, but lets wait for actual gameplay. The trailer gave some subtle hints to things, but i personally dont see it being class based..maybe for one of the modes, but i dunno. i do see some teasers in that trailer that ring classic arena with some new game mechanics... could end being like shadowrun-style is it's truly class based.

 

i wanna see gameplay before i make a judgment.

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I guess we'll wait and see but there's a good chance it could be a horrible disappointment for everyone involved.

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They literally said different characters have different abilities.

I realize that but it could very well be something related to a team mode. in a 1v1, i cant see unequal characters working out. as for team games, it's no diff than the power ups in each team's base like haste, regeneration, etc. im just trying to keep an open mind is all.

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It's amazing to see some of my favorite games get fucking trashed and neglected by the developers. Doom.. Quake.. Halo CE.

 

What a terrible trend in game development.

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The main thing Quake needs is good matchmaking, just like every other arena shooter. I think that would be enough, but they could also consider adding additional weapons that test different skills--such as projectiles that accelerate, weapons that can combo like UT's shock rifle, and more projectiles overall. It doesn't need to be crazy, but it wouldn't hurt to add a few thoughtful weapons that can be removed later if they don't work.

 

I see Quake's wealth of gamemodes as a strength rather than a weakness, just like in Halo. Clan Arena and Instagib have a huge draw. TDM in Quake has always been fairly incomprehensible, so I wouldn't mind if Clan Arena were pushed as the staple gametype it has become, maybe with an additional objective other than eliminating players.

 

 

I just don't see the addition of champion abilities as the solution to balancing out the emphasis on execution vs strategy. If there are new pros, it will not be because the old players couldn't adapt--it will be because their love for the game will have been killed, and they'll just play CPMA behind the scenes. The overemphasis on execution over strategy (which people start discussing every time a reimagination of a classic arena shooter is announced) never had to do with the lack of "strategic" elements like classes and item timers. Strategy has always been tied to execution, so unless a new executional skill curve is introduced, there will be no increase in the proportion of strategic thinking past a middle-tier level. And it is much harder to create a new, legitimate skill curve than to insert some trope from the latest gaming trend.

 

Contextual discussion for execution versus decision-making (strategy): https://www.reddit.com/r/ArenaFPS/comments/36eojp/execution_vs_decision_making/?

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