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Halo: Combat Evolved 2 Thoughts

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Screw calling this hce 2. Call it halo 6 and il be happy lol.

Although I totally agree with this sentiment, the sad truth is that calling it Halo 6 wouldn't even work, imo. Halo has departed so far form its origins over the years that if they were to actually make a CE style game as Halo 6, a large portion of the population would be confused and not understand it. 

 

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Side note: I've been thinking of making a thread like this for few months, but didn't want it to distract me from my work (too late). I was thinking of prompting weekly topics (e.g. new powerups, spawning solutions, new weapons) so we could have some good, focused discussions instead of everyone posting a list of things on the first day and then letting the thread get buried because it's just a bunch of lists. Just a thought.

 

We could do this with this thread. Weekly topics of focus would certainly be something fun to do. Once the posting of general ideas has ran its course we can start talking about more specific subjects. I have been wanting a place on these forums to be able to consistently discuss CE without feeling like I am being off topic, so this could be a good place to do so. 

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Super controversial opinion:

 

Allow players to thrust and change jump direction by tapping the jump button again midair

 

 

I'm definitely open to ways of adding all the good aspects of thrust while leaving all the bad ones behind, as it actually does benefit the game in some ways.

 

But if it can't be made to work then just forget about it.

 

That idea seems decent.  Makes thrusts somewhat predictable in that if you see someone jump randomly it's pretty obvious what they're going to attempt next.

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I'm definitely open to ways of adding all the good aspects of thrust while leaving all the bad ones behind, as it actually does benefit the game in some ways.

 

But if it can't be made to work then just forget about it.

 

That idea seems decent.  Makes thrusts somewhat predictable in that if you see someone jump randomly it's pretty obvious what they're going to attempt next.

 

I think that trust could potentially work well with a CE2, but I would also be afraid that it would change the core gameplay too much. Much of what is accomplished by thrust can be added by ensuring that the game has a great strafe (like CE). I like the idea of more control in the air though. Even if it is not exactly a thrust, more movement control while in the air could be useful, especially in a game with fall damage. 

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I think thrust should only be considered after extensive testing. It could be game breaking for CE. I would limit it to one axis (left or right) and a long recharge time.

 

Jump mechanics ala other arena shooters could be interesting.

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I think that trust could potentially work well with a CE2, but I would also be afraid that it would change the core gameplay too much. Much of what is accomplished by thrust can be added by ensuring that the game has a great strafe (like CE). I like the idea of more control in the air though. Even if it is not exactly a thrust, more movement control while in the air could be useful, especially in a game with fall damage. 

Only reason I decided to throw that in there was to make jumping less useless in combat. Halo 1 is a fairly grounded game.

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Only reason I decided to throw that in there was to make jumping less useless in combat. Halo 1 is a fairly grounded game.

Higher jump height, faster ascent and faster descent could alleviate that too.  Halo 2 and 3 had a useful jump and didn't need a thruster.

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More maps with skill jumps like Lockout's would be cool. I think Dammy could be a lot more interesting with a jump from snipe room to green for example. The Zyos jump is a great skill jump too, unfortunately it's rarely viable because of how exposed it is.

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Yeah I think we can all agree that skill jumps are a good thing, and something that Ce lacked in comparison to Halo 2.

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Hang em High has some. Chill Out has window jump. Dammy has pit jump to OS. Battle Creek has the jumps to the bases. Zyos jump in Pris. That's about it for ones that take skill besides nade jumps that rarely work or leave you very vulnerable.

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Didn't read all of these. 

 

Halo CE Resurrection or Revival  would be cool names 

 

I like the remastered look for sure

 

A timer on the screen would be clutch - not telling you when shits up but just a running clock.

 

also displaying live score instead of having to hit button to check, maybe even squeezing in player kills too.

 

When playing on different boxes it would be sweet to have an option to go split screen like you were on a two box. That way even if your partner doesnt have a mic you can still see his screen and have a better chance teamwork wise. 

 

would be cool to play h1 on some of the other halo maps -- lockout, guardian, etc

 

other than that a lot of the glitches and other imperfections is what makes h1 that much more difficult to be considered elite at. I personally like that its hard to be very good at this game. It's tough to just be above average LOL. 

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I remember the split screen idea being discussed before. I think some technical experts said it might be hard to pull off for some reason. It's a really cool idea though and if possible would be a revolutionary feature imo.

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I have some interesting ideas for the spawn system. I really like CE's spawn manipulation, where you're responsible for giving your teammate a good spawn, but what if you totally eliminated the random element? I know that randomness is accepted in the case of spawning, but what if instead of having randoms (which are sort of accidental) you had these things I call spawn portals. If your teammate is about to spawn and you step on a spawn portal, your teammate will spawn on top of a corresponding portal somewhere else on the map. Or maybe you could keep H1's spawn system as a base and have spawn portals (100% consistent randoms, basically) as an addition on some maps.

 

I feel like this could create some really interesting design opportunities, especially with enforcing player cycling. I would be interested to know what some of the Halo scientists like Cursed Lemon and chaosTheory think about this. I've kept the idea pretty closely guarded until now because I desired to make a first person shooter, but I've since lowered my goals (slightly).

 

 

So, I have been thinking about this spawn portal idea and I really like it. I remember watching one of @@Missingno 's commentaries on hang em' and he was talking about how a lot of high level players dislike that map because they feel that you can essentially out random spawn the other team. This could largely solve that problem. Even if a "random" was a random between 2-4  spawn points on the map. That way the other team can be aware of where to look. 

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So, I have been thinking about this spawn portal idea and I really like it. I remember watching one of @@Missingno 's commentaries on hang em' and he was talking about how a lot of high level players dislike that map because they feel that you can essentially out random spawn the other team. This could largely solve that problem. Even if a "random" was a random between 2-4  spawn points on the map. That way the other team can be aware of where to look. 

I should say that I feel the better team should still win in Hang 'Em most of the time.  That being said I have definitely lost and won games of Hang 'Em High only by getting a favorable/unfavorable random compared to the other team.  A lot of times it was a result of many bad plays and deaths coming to a head with a few crucial randoms, it could have been prevented.  I clearly remember losing a Hang 'Em teaming with Devilman where we had a minimum 20 random spawns in red base.  You really shouldn't win if that is happening, and we didn't.  You can't do anything if you're giving your teammate a random spawn from red base, and they're spawning red shotgun.  

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So, I have been thinking about this spawn portal idea and I really like it. I remember watching one of @@Missingno 's commentaries on hang em' and he was talking about how a lot of high level players dislike that map because they feel that you can essentially out random spawn the other team. This could largely solve that problem. Even if a "random" was a random between 2-4 spawn points on the map. That way the other team can be aware of where to look.

Having intentional spawn portals would also make the spawn game a lot more intuitive for players who were never aware of the somewhat unintentional spawn tricks in H1. If HCE: 2 were to be successful in this age of online games, I think it would be important to make the strategic aspects of the game very apparent rather than hidden. This would reduce frustration and result in everyone playing a much deeper game. It's similar to the benefit you get from putting powerups on static timers: a greater emphasis on intelligence than knowledge.

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I think randoms are okay. But only place them in areas of the map where you and your teammate are sure to die. So it only gives an advantage if you're stuck in a really bad spot, and you have to use your map awareness to get to that random spawn.

Or only have randoms when you're both dead.

Might be too easy to spawn trap without randoms. If they have you stuck somewhere and they know if you stand in one spot your teammate will spawn in an exact location, they will just pre-nade it every time.

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I really don't think that any aspect of a game should be changed to make it more intuitive for new players. A major part of my enjoyment with CE came from learning how to exploit all the predictable elements like the spawn system, weapon/powerup timing etc. As soon as you start thinking about your game's reach and accessibility, and that makes its way into the design process, then you've become part of the cancer that is plaguing modern FPS.

 

And I think the problem with Hang 'Em High is that a) there are just too many randoms compared to the other maps and b) too many spawns in shitty areas ex: red

 

Then again, I'm of the opinion that CE's gameplay is perfect. The only thing I would change/add is features like a theater mode, proper ranking/matchmaking system based on something like ELO and more maps that are built around elements of the meta that were established post-launch (ex: someone was talking about how there aren't enough maps with trick jumps, also placing randoms in bad spots to give players an exit, etc), not to mention proper online netcode.

 

I wouldn't be against a different spawn system for 4v4, but I also think that's something that can be fixed through proper map design. Unlike other arena shooters, Halo's maps are all tailored for all the gametypes. Maps should instead be built with a specific gametype in mind, ex: 2v2, 4v4, FFA, etc.

 

I know at least 4 different people that all want to make a successor to CE. If you guys just all worked together you might have something there.

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There's a difference between making a game accessible and making it casual, and the amount of pretension surrounding the former is something I find nauseating.

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I mean Hardy Lebel himself designed Halo 1 as a "party game" with depth that will take years to fully explore for most players. And I don't think there's anything wrong with explaining your mechanics. Rocket League has good optional training tutorials to get you to learn how to do aerials which makes the game more accessible and gets people to try to be better at the game.

 

Although conversely, there's definitely a huge community building aspect in discussing the meta through natural discovery during gameplay.

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Going back to stunt_man's point at the end about getting people together to make a successor... seriously, join his discord chat in his sig and get involved in making it happen. I'd probably chip in thousands towards such a project.

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Having intentional spawn portals would also make the spawn game a lot more intuitive for players who were never aware of the somewhat unintentional spawn tricks in H1. If HCE: 2 were to be successful in this age of online games, I think it would be important to make the strategic aspects of the game very apparent rather than hidden. This would reduce frustration and result in everyone playing a much deeper game. It's similar to the benefit you get from putting powerups on static timers: a greater emphasis on intelligence than knowledge.

 

I agree, that is why I would want something like Halospawns.com available to players as an easily accessible tool to help them further their knowledge about the spawn system, without having to go to a third party website. I have realized that there are many misconceptions about CE (OP pistol, garbage spawns, etc.) to players who have not taken the time to fully understand it. Making the meta easily accessible, but still hard to master, results in a better game for everyone. 

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I know at least 4 different people that all want to make a successor to CE. If you guys just all worked together you might have something there.

 

True. We should get all those who might be interested in contact with each other. 

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