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CyReN

HCS Pro League Summer 2016 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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Earlier somebody mentioned Ninja's damage per minute. I pulled the stats from Halo 5 arena and made this plot.

 

I've plotted as grey lines the average Damage per Minute and average Damage per Death in the Pro League. Then there's a fitted line with the linear relationship between these two variables.

 

In the abstract, “better” players fall to the top-right corner of the graph. What's interesting is where players fall above or below the diagonal dotted line. Ninja, for example, has dmg/death that is just above average, but is an outlier when it comes to damage per minute. This tells you a lot about his playstyle. Ninja plays fast. He engages quickly, dispenses damage quickly, dies, and does it all over again.

 

This is pretty much the opposite of how Royal 2 plays. Royal 2 is great at staying alive, and gets an absurd amount of value out of every death. Interestingly, he doesn't even lead the team in damage per minute. That's Snakebite, who plays at a very “average” speed relative to his dmg/death by pro league standards (as evidenced by the fact that he falls right on the fitted line).

 

Of note, on the high end, there's pretty much a straight line between Royal 2, Huke, Mikwen and Ninja. These players are all unloading tons of damage, but there are some stylistic differences between them. I will say, the fact that Huke can put out so much damage from Enigma6 (who currently stand 2-3 in the league) is rather absurd.

 

 

On the other side of the spectrum, Goofy and Assault have struggled. Goofy has an exceptionally low dmg/minute compared to his teammates (who are all above average in that department). Interestingly, eL ToWn is rather low in terms of damage per minute.

 

Let's wrap up with Liquid and Optic. If you look at the 4 non-Assault Liquid players (including Danoxide), they seem to collectively be very average, but Assault appears to be a weak link. All 4 Optic players are below average in terms of damage per death, and even though Maniac isn't doing well, there's nobody on the team really stepping up and outputting great numbers. 

It would be interesting to see how some of these stats change if certain players went to different teams.  Like statistically it looks like Huke is doing more damage/min than frosty with the same damage/death, but then you look at the rest of E6 and they arent doing as well.  But what if Huke was surrounded by Snakebite, lethul, and royal 2? would he still be doing that well?  if e6 got a different 4th would the rest of the players be that far down on the damage/death and damage/min.

 

while i agree that this does say a lot about play style and skill, i think context is pretty important in judging some of these stats

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It's gonna be on forge maps made specifically for doubles.

Man...you know you fucked up a Halo game when you can only make Doubles and BTB work via forge maps.

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New quick video! This'll be the last time I post this, but wanted to post it one more time when the quick posts of pro league matches had died down.

 

 

Hope to see some videos like this filling the breaks / gaps between games.

 

Opinions on who the next short should be on? Renegades? Enigma 6? NV?

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Towey's casting reminded me of his condescending tone in his Youtube gameplay commentaries ... I remember watching him analyze Commonly's gameplay and saying all of this ridiculously critical stuff that wasn't even accurate, predicting that Hamy would die in some situation when that wasnt even close to happening. I feel like Towey is just a low Onyx player who takes himself super-seriously

Onyx players are an outlier within the overall Halo community and are considerably more skilled than the average player. 

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I'm not even an OpTic fan, and even I'm getting sick of their shit. They're all too busy in Cali enjoying themselves in the fucking beaches and parties instead of going through strats and try getting better at the game. No dedication and shitty work ethic. No wonder OpTic Halo hasn't found any success for like a year now.

 

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Onyx players are an outlier within the overall Halo community and are considerably more skilled than the average player. 

 

Oh stop it, you're making me blush 

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Onyx players are an outlier within the overall Halo community and are considerably more skilled than the average player. 

its funny that this is true.  even at onyx-champ there are so many skill levels.  like a 1500-1600 isn't good in my head, and like a low champ is pretty good, etc etc.  like even when you are "good" at the game, you still arent even close to as good as you can be.  and its not like people in onyx are even close to eachother.  playing with a lower ranked onyx vs a higher onyx/champion can be a night and day difference.  like incredibly noticeable. and thats just in the top percentage

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its funny that this is true.  even at onyx-champ there are so many skill levels.  like a 1500-1600 isn't good in my head, and like a low champ is pretty good, etc etc.  like even when you are "good" at the game, you still arent even close to as good as you can be.  and its not like people in onyx are even close to eachother.  playing with a lower ranked onyx vs a higher onyx/champion can be a night and day difference.  like incredibly noticeable. and thats just in the top percentage

Part of the reason it seems so insane is that the playing field to get to that point is insane to begin with. You can be in a million different scenarios based on the effort level and communication on your team and on the other team in every game as well as matching against or with parties of varying sizes or having everyone in the game be solo as well as being able to match outside of your own bracket by fairly large margins. Honestly I don't see how the game can provide a better environment with the situation they've placed themselves in. Its always been that way somewhat though they just chose to not take some of the precautions that kept things a little more sane in previous games. I am glad that better players are able to be so noticeably better though when placed against people marginally worse

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its funny that this is true.  even at onyx-champ there are so many skill levels.  like a 1500-1600 isn't good in my head, and like a low champ is pretty good, etc etc.  like even when you are "good" at the game, you still arent even close to as good as you can be.  and its not like people in onyx are even close to eachother.  playing with a lower ranked onyx vs a higher onyx/champion can be a night and day difference.  like incredibly noticeable. and thats just in the top percentage

 

As a lower ranked onyx myself, I think there's actually more consistency in the skill of mid-high diamond players that I match with. Onyx 1500-1600 could be the most oblivious people in the game, or they could be decent. High diamonds always seem to make better decisions. I don't know why that is, and maybe I'm actually the oblivious one in game, but it makes searching solo infuriating when ranks are a crapshoot.

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I think for the better of Halo, and the Pro League, that all the Halo pro's should stream the matches. This will allow people like Ninja and Maniac (if he plays lol) to bring all of his fans to the streams too, i think that viewers would be at least 8-10k if that happened.

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I think for the better of Halo, and the Pro League, that all the Halo pro's should stream the matches. This will allow people like Ninja to bring all of his fans to the streams too, i think that viewers would be at least 8-10k if that happened.

I saw like 5k yesterday in the CLG match, what was the peak during Optic?

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As a lower ranked onyx myself, I think there's actually more consistency in the skill of mid-high diamond players that I match with. Onyx 1500-1600 could be the most oblivious people in the game, or they could be decent. High diamonds always seem to make better decisions. I don't know why that is, and maybe I'm actually the oblivious one in game, but it makes searching solo infuriating when ranks are a crapshoot.

 

Probably because of the solo queue effect. High diamond/low onyx is when you start running into significantly more to3/4. A team of 4 who play placement matches together and make callouts etc. would win against 4 solos who are more skilled than them. So those solos end up getting ranked in high diamond, the less skilled to4swho happen to have callouts get to onyx.

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I saw like 5k yesterday in the CLG match, what was the peak during Optic?

 

7k

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I think for the better of Halo, and the Pro League, that all the Halo pro's should stream the matches. This will allow people like Ninja and Maniac (if he plays lol) to bring all of his fans to the streams too, i think that viewers would be at least 8-10k if that happened.

Yeah I'm with you, I don't see how having just the official stream helps at all. The best possible scenario for the scene is to have as many eyes looking at halo as possible... And that simply isn't going to happen if the official stream is the only way to see pro league.

 

Not only that, but Player streams inherently create more content during each matchup. So there would actually be a circulation of clips and oddshots that capture special occurences that the official stream will happen to miss.

 

We need to have an official stream, but it clearly can't handle the burden on its own (especially not with the current state of spectator mode)... And it shouldn't have to.

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Yeah I'm with you, I don't see how having just the official stream helps at all. The best possible scenario for the scene is to have as many eyes looking at halo as possible... And that simply isn't going to happen if the official stream is the only way to see pro league.

 

Not only that, but Player streams inherently create more content during each matchup. So there would actually be a circulation of clips and oddshots that capture special occurences that the official stream will happen to miss.

 

We need to have an official stream, but it clearly can't handle the burden on its own (especially not with the current state of spectator mode)... And it shouldn't have to.

 

This. Both would be great. People would be multi-twitching, which bumps up numbers, which attracts further numbers as Halo is further up on Twitch too. Theres just too many positives.

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As a lower ranked onyx myself, I think there's actually more consistency in the skill of mid-high diamond players that I match with. Onyx 1500-1600 could be the most oblivious people in the game, or they could be decent. High diamonds always seem to make better decisions. I don't know why that is, and maybe I'm actually the oblivious one in game, but it makes searching solo infuriating when ranks are a crapshoot.

whats kind of sad is that the most improvement ive seen in my game has been when im running with a to4 who are all a little bit or a lot better than me.  it seems like you can learn the game so much better and form way better habits that translate over to solo queue this way.  however, getting the attention of partial teams when the only option you have is solo queue can be a very frustrating process just because of all the factors at hand that can either work with or against you.  You can do everything you can to win and not stat whore, knowing you might end up with like a .85 kd just to rank up and meet those other players, who will then see you have a negative kd.  You could stat whore to get better looking stats but then sacrifices learning how to win games which is really important.

 

unfortunately, solo queue doesnt force people to use mics and doesnt have the best way of making fair teams.  it can be a great way to practice and you will most likely see progress over time, but its at such a slow and brutal rate and at times can seem like you will never really get better.

 

a lot of people, including myself, complain on here about this on a regular basis and i wish i had a solution to the problem but im not even sure there is one.  All i have to say is im happy i have been finding more people to play with because that has really helped my game even though i still lose a lot of solo games

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Infused redeemed themselves by beating Dinosaurs 3-0 in their pro league games.

 

Good shit, @@Batchford.

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Good analysis from everyone so far.

 

I created another plot that I think tells an interesting story. In this bar chart, I'm showing damage per minute _alive_, which is to say that I calculated the total time all of their games lasted together, then subtracted (total deaths * 8 seconds) to get the amount of time that player was actually in the game, not looking at a death screen.

 

n7TZ8jL.png

 

 

Onnne of these things is not like the othherrrs, one of them doesn't belong..

 

This is an interesting measurement of how much damage output each player is able to produce while they're alive, but it definitely has some quirks. Notice Royal 2 just behind Eco, e.g.

 

Still, I think the distribution is starting to confirm the intuition you have when watching players like Ninja, Contra or Snipedown: they're managing to put a lot of bullets on faces given the time they spend alive. If you look at the stats for Strongholds this season, you'll see RNG is crushing. One theory I'd like to put forward is that Ninja's bullet hose style is well-suited for gametypes like Strongholds where your teammates' attention is naturally directed towards specific parts of the map. In other words, when there's incentives for players to crowd around certain areas, it's more likely that all damage is useful damage. Contrast that with a slayer, where damage is nigh useless if it's not immediately converted to a kill. That's the arena where Royal 2's anomalous ability to post huge K/D's makes the difference.

 

For real though Ninja should stop playing H1Z1.

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Just when I think I understand H5 pro league and how all the teams stack up against each other I watch EU and see teams 3-0 one team only to get 3-0'd by a team that got 3-0'd by the first and realize I know nothing

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As a lower ranked onyx myself, I think there's actually more consistency in the skill of mid-high diamond players that I match with. Onyx 1500-1600 could be the most oblivious people in the game, or they could be decent. High diamonds always seem to make better decisions. I don't know why that is, and maybe I'm actually the oblivious one in game, but it makes searching solo infuriating when ranks are a crapshoot.

o and one more thing, when i said it can be very obvious when you are playing with a lower onyx player, one thing is their decision making, but another dead give away is usually their communication.  like those 1500-1600 players for some reason have very bad and toxic communication.

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