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HCS Pro League Summer 2016 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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Single elimination in halo is poop from a COMPETITIVE standpoint. However, that is self-evidently not the priority for hcs so I'm not surprised to see it

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Single elimination in halo is poop from a COMPETITIVE standpoint. However, that is self-evidently not the priority for hcs so I'm not surprised to see it

 

 

A Tournament Format literally has nothing to do with how competitive the tournament is...

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I think if anything, single elim might make the tournament more competitive???

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See that's what I'm saying. Double-Elim can be super important in situations like this, and that's a perfectly viable argument.

 

 

I just don't want people like Naded using Double-Elim as a way to justify his team making mistakes, especially since they've participated in two double-elimination tournaments already.

 

Ok, that's a fair point... but I also think this point/argument is just serving as a distraction from the central issue here. People aren't angry about the existence of single-elim brackets, they're angry about the use of single-elim brackets in this situation. We are picking TWO champions, not one, and literally the only way to ensure you get the two best teams out of a tournament bracket is through double-elimination brackets. With single-elimination, the only way to get the best two teams is to hope they end up on opposite sides of the bracket via dumb luck

 

This is the inaugural season of the Halo 5 Pro League, at a time when Halo eSports is on the rise in exciting ways. It should really freaking matter that we fill those last two spots with the best teams available. Choosing to use a single-elim bracket = not caring about getting the best two teams in. Plain and simple.

 

Yea, that might make the community upset... especially since I've yet to hear one viable argument for single-elim bracket being a better choice in this situation.

 

Edit: i somehow doubleposted/misquoted all in the same post bc I can't even rite nao

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Single elimination in halo is poop from a COMPETITIVE standpoint. However, that is self-evidently not the priority for hcs so I'm not surprised to see it

 

First of all, what Infinity said.

 

Second, how does second chances make it MORE competitive? I agree with double-elim but I don't see how it's more competitive than single elim.

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Single elimination in halo is poop from a COMPETITIVE standpoint. However, that is self-evidently not the priority for hcs so I'm not surprised to see it

 

@@Ugug It's hard to beat the drum about double-elim since we've already said what there is to say. We've had posts that clearly explain why double-elim is the better format for a LCQ tourney that's trying to seed two teams into the Pro League and nobody, so far, has been arguing against it. We don't need to start talking about what's "more competitive" or what should be done for the whole HCS format, that's just steering us away from the topic at hand because you're trying to keep the conversation alive. The issue at hand is what's best when you have a single LCQ that seeds in two teams, not about what's universally better for all scenarios.

 

We've had our say and nobody is objecting. Continuing to harp on when nobody is disagreeing can get annoying or move the discussion away from teh issue at hand. We really just need @@Vivi or someone to give a statement that provides ESL's point of view.

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See that's what I'm saying. Double-Elim can be super important in situations like this, and that's a perfectly viable argument.

 

 

I just don't want people like Naded using Double-Elim as a way to justify his team making mistakes, especially since they've participated in two double-elimination tournaments already.

To be fair , statistically speaking, if Optic is truly the 7th or 8th best team in NA, Naded wouldn't be qualified already.

 

The LQC should be 343/ESLs attempt at finding the 7th and 8th best teams. there's a strong chance that they will fail at this since they have chosen to leave it up to chance

 

of course, any team that fails to make it has themselves to blame, for not executing in crunch time . Still it's sad that organizers are willing to settle for having a 9th best team taking up a spot in an 8 team league.

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@@Ugug It's hard to beat the drum about double-elim since we've already said what there is to say. We've had posts that clearly explain why double-elim is the better format for a LCQ tourney that's trying to seed two teams into the Pro League and nobody, so far, has been arguing against it. We don't need to start talking about what's "more competitive" or what should be done for the whole HCS format, that's just steering us away from the topic at hand because you're trying to keep the conversation alive. The issue at hand is what's best when you have a single LCQ that seeds in two teams, not about what's universally better for all scenarios.

 

We've had our say and nobody is objecting. Continuing to harp on when nobody is disagreeing can get annoying or move the discussion away from teh issue at hand. We really just need @@Vivi or someone to give a statement that provides ESL's point of view.

There's been countless people ask Vivi or Tashi or Che to explain why single elim, none of them ever respond to the question. Honestly I don't think they give a damn about anyone's opinion, they are just doing what they want. If they had a legitimate argument they would come out and explain why. But they don't, so they will just move forward and pretend like they don't see the comments. Whatever I guess, it's their league, they will get out of it what they put into it.
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It just doesnt make sense that every other event to qualify for pro league was double elimination, but not this one.  I feel like this will potentially put a better team out of the pro league just because they have 1 bad series next week, or its an optic vs. elv situation in early bracket play.

I dont mind single elim. in standard tournaments because to win a tournament, you need to beat everyone.  But double elim definitely sets up a more exciting finals match.

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If there's pool play in a online 16 team tourney I believe it should be single elim

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First of all, what Infinity said.

 

Second, how does second chances make it MORE competitive? I agree with double-elim but I don't see how it's more competitive than single elim.

Because double elimination tournaments ensure against, for example, the second-best team from placing 5th.

 

Am I wrong for thinking that this makes double elimination tournaments more competitive than single elim?

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If there's pool play in a online 16 team tourney I believe it should be single elim

Then it should just be double elimination without group play

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A Tournament Format literally has nothing to do with how competitive the tournament is...

So a tournament where teams played one game to determine a matchup would be just as competitive as a best of 7? I would argue that a 7 game series would do a better job of determining the better team and therefore be more competitive.

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There's been countless people ask Vivi or Tashi or Che to explain why single elim, none of them ever respond to the question. Honestly I don't think they give a damn about anyone's opinion, they are just doing what they want. If they had a legitimate argument they would come out and explain why. But they don't, so they will just move forward and pretend like they don't see the comments. Whatever I guess, it's their league, they will get out of it what they put into it.

 

The thing is, this isn't a "whatever" situation.

 

It is not hard to change a tournament format if 99% of the teams are going to be in favor for it. If we had the "whatever" mindset, we would still have Breakout.

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It really is an outrage. PAX was double-elim, when it didn't even make sense there - only 1 team got a Pro League spot. Now, for LCQ, where 2 get pro league spots we're stuck with single-elim...  :wutface:  :wutface:  :wutface:  :wutface:  :wutface:  :wutface:

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So a tournament where teams played one game to determine a matchup would be just as competitive as a best of 7? I would argue that a 7 game series would do a better job of determining the better team and therefore be more competitive.

 

I'm pretty sure you just argued in favor of my point? The entire bracket is BO7.

 

To be fair , statistically speaking, if Optic is truly the 7th or 8th best team in NA, Naded wouldn't be qualified already.

 

Fair point but many people placed them Top 4-6 for numerous weeks, and at one point they were expected to be Top 3 or even #2.

 

People thought they had a chance at PAX, were the top pick for Burbank, etc, that's the only reason I made the comment about Naded's complaints.

 

literally the only way to ensure you get the two best teams out of a tournament bracket is through double-elimination brackets

 

Agreed entirely, this tourney should be Double-Elim due to the nature of its intent. I was simply refuting the concept that a Double-Elim bracket is more competitive or that we should be justifying teams making mistakes.

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I'm pretty sure you just argued in favor of my point? The entire bracket is BO7.

 

 

 

Fair point but many people placed them Top 4-6 for numerous weeks, and at one point they were expected to be Top 3 or even #2.

 

 

 

 

Agreed entirely, this tourney should be Double-Elim due to the nature of its intent. I was simply refuting the concept that a Double-Elim bracket is more competitive or that we should be justifying teams making mistakes.

no, your point was that tournament formats have no bearing on competitiveness. I used an extreme example with a 1 game series vs a 7 game series to illustrate why that point didn't make sense

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I'm pretty sure you just argued in favor of my point? The entire bracket is BO7.

 

 

Fair point but many people placed them Top 4-6 for numerous weeks, and at one point they were expected to be Top 3 or even #2.

 

 

 

Agreed entirely, this tourney should be Double-Elim due to the nature of its intent. I was simply refuting the concept that a Double-Elim bracket is more competitive or that we should be justifying teams making mistakes.

 

Double Elim is more competitive in the sense that later matches, e.g. Grand Finals are much closer than Single Elim finals, where there can be a strong side of the bracket and a weak one, leading to a blowout in the grand finals.

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Because double elimination tournaments ensure against, for example, the second-best team from placing 5th.

 

Am I wrong for thinking that this makes double elimination tournaments more competitive than single elim?

Nope I agree, and I'm sure a lot of us do too

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With double elim now that all the players cried about it's now way harder. Good job guys

Ill just drop this off since we are talking about double elimination.  I get why Cratos prefers single elim, because CLG would be way harder.

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Because double elimination tournaments ensure against, for example, the second-best team from placing 5th.

 

Am I wrong for thinking that this makes double elimination tournaments more competitive than single elim?

 

 

The argument is that if they are the second best team, they won't make a mistake against the fifth best team.

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The argument is that if they are the second best team, they won't make a mistake against the fifth best team.

What happens if the second best team plays the best team in, lets say, the quarter finals?

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