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HCS Pro League Summer 2016 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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But no esport would want to. Drafting teams is a lose-lose-lose proposition - for players, for good organizations and even spectators.

 

- Players: lose earning power when subjected to a draft - this is evident in every professional sport, and it doesn't have to do with limits on drafted player compensation (even though that exists in pro sports), but it has to do with limited negotiation power (as players are not free agents).

 

- Good organizations: lose the ability to acquire players that make sense for them - outside of winning, players that create content, or are charismatic, or have whatever other strengths tailored to their org have value outside of their ability to play the game. Rich orgs are often the same as good orgs, because being well-run makes you profitable. Drafts would prevent deserving players from joining good orgs and vice versa.

 

- Finally, spectators: from a spectator point of view, while this would increase the competitiveness of the scene, it would lower the overall quality of play since teams would be created suboptimally via the draft.

 

All of this to avoid the 'boogeyman' of a too dominant team. People look fondly upon Final Boss - why is this an issue with CLG now? Do you think that having a transcendant team like the 95-96 Bulls or the modern-day Warriors or the 2007 Patriots sucked? Because you're wrong. Dominant teams provide just as many storylines as parity does.

 

 

The only thing keeping a draft format from working is money. If all players earned enough money off of salary to live there would be no issue. In professional sports players still have negotiation power. You don't think Lebron has negotiation power? Or what about Peyton Manning when he left the Colts? These top of the line athletes almost pick whatever team they want to go to once they're free agents. Its the bottom tier players who have no negotiation power and take what they can get to stay in the league. Sure players would lose some negotiation power, but they have it all right now. To say they would have NO negotiation power isn't true. If Lethul signed a 2 year contract with CLG and when that expired was still at the top of his game you don't think he could just pick any team and sign with them? Organizations would have a harder time building super teams thats for sure, but I'd rather watch a tournament where four or five teams have a realistic shot at winning rather than one or two. Also, what percentage of spectators watch a tournament to see perfectly played Halo by one team who dominates rather than a ton of close matches?

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^^  Agreed.  I think money plays a large part in it.  If Halo pros were paid a large salary, i dont think they would care what team they were on.  

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^^ Agreed. I think money plays a large part in it. If Halo pros were paid a large salary, i dont think they would care what team they were on.

wrong. Most players want to win. If they got shitty teammates they they didn't win with and/or don't get along with they would care alot
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wrong. Most players want to win. If they got shitty teammates they they didn't win with and/or don't get along with they would care alot

 

I'm sure eventually everyone has a price where they wouldn't care...  If you want to pay me $200k a year to join a terrible halo team and lose every tournament, then by all means where do i sign.

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You are wrong. NBA viewership #s have been falling since 2012, but the Warriors-Cavs finals last year was the highest rated NBA Finals since 2001. I don't want to talk about this anymore because this is really a sports discussion which as I've learned in the past has no place on this forum but there are scores and scores of examples in all competitions where people line up in droves to watch dominance in action.

Ya, the finals last year. When people thought the cabs had a shot and the series was fairly close. If golden state runs through the playoffs and they are up against the raptors, nobody will watch.

 

You can't honestly tell me you would rather have watched that 4-0 CLG sweep than a tight 7 Gane series?

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The only thing keeping a draft format from working is money. If all players earned enough money off of salary to live there would be no issue. In professional sports players still have negotiation power. You don't think Lebron has negotiation power? Or what about Peyton Manning when he left the Colts? These top of the line athletes almost pick whatever team they want to go to once they're free agents. Its the bottom tier players who have no negotiation power and take what they can get to stay in the league. Sure players would lose some negotiation power, but they have it all right now. To say they would have NO negotiation power isn't true. If Lethul signed a 2 year contract with CLG and when that expired was still at the top of his game you don't think he could just pick any team and sign with them? Organizations would have a harder time building super teams thats for sure, but I'd rather watch a tournament where four or five teams have a realistic shot at winning rather than one or two. Also, what percentage of spectators watch a tournament to see perfectly played Halo by one team who dominates rather than a ton of close matches?

You're describing free agency - what we have now. What does drafting have to do with what you're describing? Think about how drafting would work in your scenario, describe it, then you'll realize why it doesn't do anything for anyone.

 

Ya, the finals last year. When people thought the cabs had a shot and the series was fairly close. If golden state runs through the playoffs and they are up against the raptors, nobody will watch.

 

You can't honestly tell me you would rather have watched that 4-0 CLG sweep than a tight 7 Gane series?

You're mixing up things here. You're looking at a series after it's over and trying to determine whether or not a dominant team is good (from the perspective of excitement or closeness). You should probably look at the interest before the series - where dominant teams bring the hype because the most compelling storyline always is the underdog story.
 
Anyways, for spectators, dominant teams represent an incredibly good value proposition. They get the underdog story, and even if that doesn't come to fruition, they get to watch play that represents something very close to perfection. There's a reason why people are paying record breaking prices on the road to watch the Warriors play: http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Warriors-road-ticket-prices-unprecedented-6990080.php
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You're describing free agency - what we have now. What does drafting have to do with what you're describing? Think about how drafting would work in your scenario, describe it, then you'll realize why it doesn't do anything for anyone.

Drafting results in an even distribution of talent. Instead of having the 4 best players on one team winning everything those 4 guys will have to play against eachother.

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Unless 2gre gets on a good team somehow, I think he's entering the 2010/2011-Walshy stage of his career. 

 

What an excellent frame of reference.

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You're describing free agency - what we have now. What does drafting have to do with what you're describing? Think about how drafting would work in your scenario, describe it, then you'll realize why it doesn't do anything for anyone.

 

 

Drafting is the most efficient way to distribute talent between teams...?

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Having these big organizations in Halo is nice and all but I just kinda miss when players would just go to an event and team with who they want without contractual agreements and not being held hostage by sponsors and not having to worry about if the org is going to stay with them or as a company drop you for x reason. Now drafts? I get it's speculation and discussion but that would be horrible. I don't get the need for competitive gaming/esports need to emulate or replicate sports. Let people team with who they want to team with. 2 corporate 4 me.

 

I like watching video games because it isn't sports and I miss it when things were simple. Form a team and try to win. And to me it seems like players are starting to care less about winning and more about being a brand when winning should be 1st priority.

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You can't honestly tell me you would rather have watched that 4-0 CLG sweep than a tight 7 Gane series?

the only money in halo comes from winning tournaments, and even that isn't enough to live off of for the vast majority of players. 

 

in pro sports with drafts, players get a guaranteed salaries regardless of team results. even minor league players can raise a family off their salaries, again, regardless of team results. 

 

there's a fundamental disconnect from reality for people who are thinking a draft would make anything approaching sense in halo as it currently exists. maybe some other games that generate massive revenue off of their pro players might go in that direction, though. 

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Drafting will not happen in competitive console gaming until it happens in much larger games (LoL/Dota/CS:GO). Unless eSports blows up and becomes amazingly mainstream, it will not emulate traditional sports because there will not be enough money to support the players/scene.

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Having these big organizations in Halo is nice and all but I just kinda miss when players would just go to an event and team with who they want without contractual agreements and not being held hostage by sponsors and not having to worry about if the org is going to stay with them or as a company drop you for x reason. Now drafts? I get it's speculation and discussion but that would be horrible. I don't get the need for competitive gaming/esports need to emulate or replicate sports. Let people team with who they want to team with. 2 corporate 4 me.

 

I like watching video games because it isn't sports and I miss it when things were simple. Form a team and try to win. And to me it seems like players are starting to care less about winning and more about being a brand when winning should be 1st priority.

 

I might be missing something, but I have barely seen any players be "held hostage" and end up not participating/playing on a team that they were stuck on purely because of a contract. Contracts mean very little in Halo. 

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Drafting will not happen in competitive console gaming until it happens in much larger games (LoL/Dota/CS:GO). Unless eSports blows up and becomes amazingly mainstream, it will not emulate traditional sports because there will not be enough money to support the players/scene.

 

 

the only money in halo comes from winning tournaments, and even that isn't enough to live off of for the vast majority of players. 

 

in pro sports with drafts, players get a guaranteed salaries regardless of team results. even minor league players can raise a family off their salaries, again, regardless of team results. 

 

there's a fundamental disconnect from reality for people who are thinking a draft would make anything approaching sense in halo as it currently exists. maybe some other games that generate massive revenue off of their pro players might go in that direction, though. 

 

This is why I said money is the only thing in the way of a draft working

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While you're all arguing about drafting, I dropped intel in Frosty's chat and nobody saw it.

 

Too bad  :kappa:

we don't need your MikwINTEL here, we all know it's gonna be lies and falsehood :lxthul:  :kappa:

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This is why I said money is the only thing in the way of a draft working

It's not money. You could give players a salary and it still wouldn't justify drafting *a full league* (not just rookies). Kelly Olynyk doesn't deserve Lebron's salary, Danny Woodhead doesn't deserve Tom Brady's salary, Batchford doesn't deserve to make what Lethul makes. 'Efficiently distributing talent' is a stupid ends to pursue. If you have free agency 2 years after this random draft then 2 years later you'll just get a super team again. I'm sure what you want is a salary cap, which the draft is but a small part of.

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While you're all arguing about drafting, I dropped intel in Frosty's chat and nobody saw it.

 

Too bad  :kappa:

 

 

Cant you see we're busy discussing drafting!?

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While you're all arguing about drafting, I dropped intel in Frosty's chat and nobody saw it.

 

Too bad  :kappa:

 

Well thank god for rebroadcast and chat replay.   :intel:

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the only money in halo comes from winning tournaments, and even that isn't enough to live off of for the vast majority of players.

 

in pro sports with drafts, players get a guaranteed salaries regardless of team results. even minor league players can raise a family off their salaries, again, regardless of team results.

 

there's a fundamental disconnect from reality for people who are thinking a draft would make anything approaching sense in halo as it currently exists. maybe some other games that generate massive revenue off of their pro players might go in that direction, though.

I know these things. It's a pipe dream. But it should be the desired goal.

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