Jump to content
CyReN

HCS Pro League Summer 2016 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

Recommended Posts

Narrowing that list down to Halo 5 tournaments where the the (arguably) top 8 teams at the time were in attendance:

NA Regionals

Worlds

 

And unless they have more events coming that they haven't announced yet, we won't get another one until 2017 NA Regionals (if they keep the same format).

 

I agree that the Open Circuit is pretty good for what it is, mostly because Sundays are double elim. It just bums me out that only two am teams will even have a shot at pros, and that shot consists of playing a single series. More chances to play pros means growth for the am scene and more opportunities for ams to break out and become known.

 

I don't know where you get off calling me entitled. I didn't say monthly 256 team tournaments are the ONLY acceptable format for Halo esports. It's not an all or nothing thing. One open tournament in the fall to look forward to would be a huge improvement. Halo history and culture has pretty much been defined by those classic MLG events, I will be incredibly sad if it's something we're leaving behind entirely.

 

Also, COD has had two open tournaments this year and there is another one planned. Gears of War, a significantly smaller game than Halo, has an open coming up. How am I supposed to see those and not be jealous?

I agree it would be sad to see it die off completely, but I think we need some perspective here, how many team passes do you think we would sell? honestly, let us think about this? 

Let us say the prize pool is 100k and is distributed among the top 8 teams. Realistically only a maximum of 10-12 (14 if we include EU teams) teams has a realistic shot at placing in the money (that is being generous especially if want double elimination as well) Now, so how many more team passes do you expect to sell where they have very low chances of placing in the money? If the online LCQ showed us anything it was there is a grave discrepancy between the bottom pro teams and the middle - top amateur teams.

 

I don't think we would get anywhere near 200 teams willing to sign up with very little chance of earning an ROI. Granted it provides them with an opportunity to shine but so does the challenger league. I would say 100 teams is realistic and that's including all 6 EU pro teams coming over. What do you think is a realistic expectation at this point?

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

So your argument is that players have become complacent because they feel relatively 'safe' in the league coupled with a relatively low earnings potential? Somehow NOT PLAYING is what's 'best for them? I don't buy it.

First of all, it's in each individual players best interest to be at the top of their game. The impeding roster mania may save teams from relegation, but when AMs move up, pro's are gonna be 'relegated' by default. No one is safe.

Secondly, a team's chances at bring home anything substantial at worlds, hinges on their ability to close the skill gap between CLG, and creating one between the other teams in the league. You don't do that by pussyfooting around the pro league.

The lunacy of settling on a 'coin flip' that you might stay in the league, when AMs are putting in 12+ hrs a week to take your spot.

You're ignoring scale and context which tends to happen a lot on this site. It's not as simple as "not playing can't be what's best for them" it's a comparison of what else would they rather be doing lol. In a vacuum, yes. Being better=better for you. But we don't live in a vacuum. Everyone's got decisions to make, would you rather work or not work? What if working only has a 50% chance of paying off in 6-10 months? What if shady halo kid-ness could cost you your job anyway? What if you work hard and still end up with nothing to show for it because of things that are out of your control? There's just not enough structure for the players to actually look at it like a real job, and the exposure is so low it's not doing anything worthwhile for their personal branding (which very few of them even attempt to do at this point.) how many part time jobs have you given your 100% dedication to?

 

Again, least amount of work to get by applies here. How many times have people written dissertations on here about how badly we need content creators and how "easy" it would be to become big on YouTube leveraging the pro status and scene? Now how many of them actually do it? Wouldn't it be in their best interest to diversify and roll around in that YouTube money? Now why don't they do it? (This is rhetorical. I know why they don't do it. It's a lot of work/it's not for everyone/YouTube is a pain/barrier to entry/etc. I'm not knocking anyone for not doing it it's just an example.)

 

People in general will typically do the least amount of work possible to get by. It's a fact of life that gets taken into consideration by management around the world every day. To act like that's not a real consideration is kind of foolish.

 

I also don't know why you're so snarky about this lol it was just an (in my opinion) plausible explanation I offered up.

 

Remember only two teams are even up for relegation, so the rest are safe. and even then, they just need to beat one AM team. There's maybe one AM team that can even compete with a pro team, so ONE team ends up in a coin flip situation. The odds of being that one team are 1 in 7 (less if you factor in how good teams are, obviously clg won't be up for relegation but you get my point.)

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

Sometimes I write a book and don't realize it

Happens to me all the time, i just get carried away.

Share this post


Link to post

I feel like an online pro league just isn't all that hype inducing. Weekly competitive matches are cool, but to me it dilutes the overall interest I have going into each week. I'm sure it's somewhat responsible for the lack of scrims too.

 

Maybe it's just me, but I personally would trash the whole online league concept and replace it with monthly-ish LAN tournies leading to one big one like Worlds.

 

To me, Halo is about counting down the days to that next LAN and then having a whole weekend of intense Halo to indulge in. Look at that open CoD tourney that happened just recently. We need crowds, we need open events. That has ALWAYS been Halo's domain. That is what motivates the pros to practice more and motivates the viewers to watch more. Some online qualifiers are fine but overall we need more events. I don't care if CoD has a pro league, I don't care what other games do. I just know what made me fall in love with Halo and it's sure as hell not this boring ass pro league.

 

/rant

I agree about pro league but open LAN turnout for H5 would be very low.

 

And while I understand the benefits of an online pro league, they're all moot when it's executed this poorly.

Share this post


Link to post

Halo5arena does that pretty often, could be that it takes the date of the last game of the scrim(and it most likely goes after the EST time zone), or the date when it gets the scrim data. @@charas

 

Yes it is the date of processing (first game timestamp) but I am aware it might get a little confusing for you guys sometimes as the server (+database) timezone used is actually CET+1 / UTC+2.

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

Team changes next week are going to be interesting.

 

Not sure how Danoxide will work with Spartan, mentality wise. 

 

Do you remember pre-HWC Renegades? There was a day during scrims when Spartan "lost it" and went off on Ninja HARD...... and it worked. I think Spartan is up and down emotionally, but if there's anyone to tell someone to fuck off with the whiny shit and focus, it's Spartan.... doesn't hurt that he's fucking amazing.

Share this post


Link to post

I dont think we would get anywhere near 200 teams willing to sign up with very little chance of earning a ROI. Granted it provides them with an opportunity to shine but so does the challenger league. I would say 100 teams is realistic and that's including all 6 eu pro teams coming over. What do you think is a realistic expectation at this point?

Nobody is pulling 200+ teams. The COD events this year are 96. H2A events managed 40-80 teams with $10-50k prize pools. UGC was $22k, paid out the top 16 teams, and had 88 teams. That was H2A. I don't know what the H2A population was but I would be shocked if it was higher than H5. Even a 32 team open tournament is better than an 8 team invitational imo.

 

I doubt most non pros, aside from maybe a couple delusional outliers, are showing up to events expecting to make a profit. You go to prove yourself, get your name out there, have fun, meet people, see friends you met through the game. I would happily spend money just to go spectate.

 

I know nothing about the logistics of putting on an event like this. I don't know how big it would have to be to be worth it to 343. I doubt Microsoft made the $2.5 million they spent on the Worlds prize pool back from spectator passes and the Mega Bloks sponsorship. Esports isn't a direct line of revenue. LCS isn't profitable. It's advertising and an investment towards building a community that will continue buying your game/console/microtransactions in the future.

 

The Coalition says Gears 4 will be esports focused. If cost is what is prohibiting us from having bigger LANs, hopefully we'll see some Halo/Gears/Microsoft esports combined events.

  • Upvote (+1) 7

Share this post


Link to post

You're ignoring scale and context which tends to happen a lot on this site. It's not as simple as "not playing can't be what's best for them" it's a comparison of what else would they rather be doing lol. In a vacuum, yes. Being better=better for you. But we don't live in a vacuum. Everyone's got decisions to make, would you rather work or not work? What if working only has a 50% chance of paying off in 6-10 months? What if shady halo kid-ness could cost you your job anyway? What if you work hard and still end up with nothing to show for it because of things that are out of your control? There's just not enough structure for the players to actually look at it like a real job, and the exposure is so low it's not doing anything worthwhile for their personal branding (which very few of them even attempt to do at this point.) how many part time jobs have you given your 100% dedication to?

 

Again, least amount of work to get by applies here. How many times have people written dissertations on here about how badly we need content creators and how "easy" it would be to become big on YouTube leveraging the pro status and scene? Now how many of them actually do it? Wouldn't it be in their best interest to diversify and roll around in that YouTube money? Now why don't they do it? (This is rhetorical. I know why they don't do it. It's a lot of work/it's not for everyone/YouTube is a pain/barrier to entry/etc. I'm not knocking anyone for not doing it it's just an example.)

 

People in general will typically do the least amount of work possible to get by. It's a fact of life that gets taken into consideration by management around the world every day. To act like that's not a real consideration is kind of foolish.

 

I also don't know why you're so snarky about this lol it was just an (in my opinion) plausible explanation I offered up.

 

Remember only two teams are even up for relegation, so the rest are safe. and even then, they just need to beat one AM team. There's maybe one AM team that can even compete with a pro team, so ONE team ends up in a coin flip situation. The odds of being that one team are 1 in 7 (less if you factor in how good teams are, obviously clg won't be up for relegation but you get my point.)

I'm not saying that pros aren't employing this sort of thinking, it appears that maybe some are. But it's silly.

 

Sure only two teams are up for relegation. But any player can be dropped from their team and replaced with another one next week. Relegation isn't the only way in/out of the league. It's in every players best interest to display their worth so that they make it through rostermania AND relegation with a spot in the league AND on a team with potential to contend for Worlds. The only way to display this value is to play the game and perform.

 

This idea that someone can choose not to play, and that be considered 'doing enough to get by' is nonsense. The opposite is true.

 

Did I come off as snarky? I just disagree with the notion that making it into proleague provides enough safety to decide not to practice.

Share this post


Link to post

Nobody is pulling 200+ teams. The COD events this year are 96. H2A events managed 40-80 teams with $10-50k prize pools. UGC was $22k, paid out the top 16 teams, and had 88 teams. That was H2A. I don't know what the H2A population was but I would be shocked if it was higher than H5. Even a 32 team open tournament is better than an 8 team invitational imo.

 

I doubt most non pros, aside from maybe a couple delusional outliers, are showing up to events expecting to make a profit. You go to prove yourself, get your name out there, have fun, meet people, see friends you met through the game. I would happily spend money just to go spectate.

 

I know nothing about the logistics of putting on an event like this. I don't know how big it would have to be to be worth it to 343. I doubt Microsoft made the $2.5 million they spent on the Worlds prize pool back from spectator passes and the Mega Bloks sponsorship. Esports isn't a direct line of revenue. LCS isn't profitable. It's advertising and an investment towards building a community that will continue buying your game/console/microtransactions in the future.

 

The Coalition says Gears 4 will be esports focused. If cost is what is prohibiting us from having bigger LANs, hopefully we'll see some Halo/Gears/Microsoft esports combined events.

Thank you,

I apologize there was a miss understanding, I was under the impression people believed there were more than 200 teams out there (this is why I responded that way), I agree that a 30-40 open bracket should be run be with group play followed by elimination bracket. However, these tournaments should be spread out like 3 at most in the year. Due to the fact it is costly for players to get around especially if they have no real chance at placing in the money, so they will need time to accumulate the dispensable income in order to cover themselves for the weekend.

I do think these would be fun to watch again. I don't necessarily think they are critical but they would appease the majority of the competitive community so 1 or 2 of these a year would be okay, especially to break up the monotony of the pro league or during a waiting period i.e after the pro league where there is bound to be a significant cool off time. 

Share this post


Link to post

I agree it would be sad to see it die off completely, but I think we need some perspective here, how many team passes do you think we would sell? honestly, let us think about this? 

Let us say the prize pool is 100k and is distributed among the top 8 teams. Realistically only a maximum of 10-12 (14 if we include EU teams) teams has a realistic shot at placing in the money (that is being generous especially if want double elimination as well) Now, so how many more team passes do you expect to sell where they have very low chances of placing in the money? If the online LCQ showed us anything it was there is a grave discrepancy between the bottom pro teams and the middle - top amateur teams.

 

I don't think we would get anywhere near 200 teams willing to sign up with very little chance of earning an ROI. Granted it provides them with an opportunity to shine but so does the challenger league. I would say 100 teams is realistic and that's including all 6 EU pro teams coming over. What do you think is a realistic expectation at this point?

 

200 teams? It doesnt have to be near 200 teams to be a good open LAN.

 

MLG Anaheim was awesome and it had 96 teams.

 

UGC HCS was great, and it had 88 teams for a BROKEN GAME.

 

So yeah, maybe you should put some rational thought into what you say.

  • Upvote (+1) 1
  • Downvote (-1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

Esports isn't a direct line of revenue. LCS isn't profitable. It's advertising and an investment towards building a community that will continue buying your game/console/microtransactions in the future.

 

FINALLY! Someone that understands why eSports are a thing! 

 

It pisses me off when I see someone saying 'Open LANS wont happen cause theyre not profitable'. 

 

eSports isn't a money making machine. They are there to direct investment and interest into the game, as a means of advertising.

  • Downvote (-1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

FINALLY! Someone that understands why eSports are a thing!

 

It pisses me off when I see someone saying 'Open LANS wont happen cause theyre not profitable'.

 

eSports isn't a money making machine. They are there to direct investment and interest into the game, as a means of advertising.

Isn't a money making machine for Halo, for the top dogs it is. Or do you think MLG had a lost in their CSGO major?. We simply don't have the viewers to justify a bigger prize pool/Lan events.
  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

I miss the days when I could walk down to the local gaming center, Boxer controller in hand, and just sign up for a LAN event. It helped build community, local rivals. I got my start at MLG when I carpooled with some kids from Pittsburgh to a New York event. 

 

These tiny little local scenes undoubtedly contributed to MLG's popularity back in the day, but with no LAN functionality, it just can't happen. 

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

naded is live

He went live this morning at 7am when I was getting ready for work. 4am his time. Brett is a freak.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.