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HCS Pro League Summer 2016 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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Long Audley Overanalyzing Post Inbound (about Bomb/Assault).  Putting entire thing in Spoiler Tag for sake of those who want to skip it.

 

 

 

 

One of the main reasons Neutral Bomb (saying Bomb so no one makes another joke about Clete, I've worn myself tired of that joke by making it at every opportunity) is bad is because it's a gametype where the team in control of whether or not they can score at any given time is FORCED into a basic numbers disadvantage by way of having one player removed from combat capability in order to move the objective.  (This is also why Oddball is worse than King of the Hill, in my opinion.)

 

If you pick up the bomb while the enemy team is all alive, you've forced your team into a 3v4 situation.  And if you ask most top level Halo players what competitive Halo is about, they'll say "It's about winning your battles and pushing numbers advantages."  So by design, Neutral Bomb completely contradicts competitive Halo's goals.  By cutting into the potential to get a numbers advantage.  Because again, one of your players can't fight if you're trying to score the objective.

 

You may be thinking, "In Flag, in older Halos, it was the same thing!  Why doesn't Flag suck?"  --  Because you're moving AWAY from the opponents base as you're pulling yourself out of combat, not trying to push INTO it.  If you're moving away, you just have to break the sightlines from the players coming off spawn and you're in good shape.  And your teammates just have to cut off your opponent's routes to your base.

 

In Neutral Bomb, however, when you're attempting to score...You have to get a numbers advantage on one side of the map that allows you to push into the base, and then you have to defend a much shorter route from your opponent's spawns into their own base, and THEN you have to stay alive holding an object in your opponent's base long enough to get the plant.

 

We've allowed Neutral Bomb in three past Halos, H2, Reach, and H2A.  What was different then?

  • H2, Reach, and H2A had longer kill times across the board than Halo 5's kill times.  This meant, if you were a bomb carrier, you were in less danger in general.
  • In H2 and H2A, there were no high mobility options off your spawn to get back to your base and engage the cluster of enemies on the arming zone, so if the player with the Bomb made it into the base, the only thing he really had to worry about was incoming grenades.
  • In Reach, Neutral Bomb got taken out due to most games going to time with low scores...because it was very easy to sprint back to your spawn, throw nukes, and throw the bomb out of the arming zone.  But Reach's "Death Influence" on spawns made it so if you killed someone on a side, you could definitely push the bomb on that side and just have one more slaying cycle before attempting to arm.
  • In H2A, the person who armed the bomb was killed upon arming the bomb.  Additionally, the defending team had opportunity to disarm the bomb after it was planted.  (I can't remember if this was the case in Reach...I'm almost positive it wasn't the case in H2.)

But... CoD/CSGO has a bomb gametype that works just fine!

  • The bomb carrier is not restricted from using weapons while carrying the Bomb.
  • The team on offense is given two options on where to arm the bomb, meaning they can force a numbers advantage early on and get a pick-off that snowballs into a plant.  If you overload one site, you have numbers.
  • There are no respawns.

To be honest, I think for H5 Bomb to work, one of two options needs to be explored:

  1. Use the Halo 3 Bomb mechanic.  Walking over the plant instantly arms it (or hell, make it a 1s arm, just...really short.)  Put the pressure on the defense to DISARM the bomb, rather than on the offense to ARM the bomb.  This may not be possible in H5 since they have made it Oddball.
  2. Make it so the Bomb Carrier can use their weapons (or at least one weapon.  Change the ball to be something that can be held in the pocket, and only arms when wielded.  Press Y to pull out ball / Y again to switch back to a weapon to fight.)  As long as the Bomb Carrier is restricted from using their weapons, Bomb will forever be a weaker option than CTF for competitive play.

 

 

A few problems with the Spawn System in Bomb in H5:

  1. 8 second respawns instead of the 10 that were standard for objective in Past Halos.  H5 has a global 8s respawn in Arena gametypes.  This means Slayers are more snowbally (longer period of time where you have numbers advantages) and objectives are harder to score (shorter period of time where you have numbers advantages).
  2. Unlike CTF, the "sportsball" (Forge name for Assault/Oddball gametypes) respawn zones stretch all the way past the mid point of the map, influencing spawns in neutral areas, such as Sniper on Coliseum or bottom Car/Pink on Truth.  This means you are able to spawn much further away from the base, making it harder to get back once your opponents have started arming... but likewise, it means it's possible for you to spawn midway up the map when your team is arming, making it easier to reinforce your team if you are making a push.
  3. With sprint/thrust/slide in existence, you can make it back fairly quickly and only need a good grenade/couple of pistol shots to stop the plant.  Then you just have to BE KIND, REWIND by touching the ball once to completely reset all progress.  Combined with the fact that most of these maps have ways to "play" the ball (Truth, throw under base / bottom middle, Tyrant, throw off map.  Coli, throw off map)...it becomes kinda redundant.  Why have instant disarm if you also have drop-offs around the base?

 

 

Ok makes sense thanks!

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1. Eminem

2. Slim Shady

3. B Rabbit

4. The white guy from D12

5. Marshall Mathers

 

profit??

 

What were we ranking again?

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  1. xXx
  2. Lammie
  3. Bravo
  4. Towey
  5. ManTrain
  6. OGRE3
  7. Royal1
  8. Moo

 

I thought we were doing current :wutface:

 

TFW you don't make Top 7 coaches

chCLrfk.png

Wasnt he sleeping when he was supposed to be coaching once :kappa:

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What were we ranking again?

 

The best escorts I think.

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The best escorts I think.

 

I have a couple phone numbers for you guys if you want...

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Wasnt he sleeping when he was supposed to be coaching once :kappa:

He's been infiltrating Ace's dreams for the few weeks before LCQ. Coaching inception.

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if you guys want to enter just private message me your teams!

Is there a graphic showing how points are scored?

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Is there a graphic showing how points are scored?

once the site is launched scoring will be explained 

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once the site is launched scoring will be explained 

 

Just give it the ol' MCC try and program it, don't test it, then launch it. Surely you are good enough programmers to not make any mistakes without even testing your site?

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tfw you have no ankles

 

Ok. From now on Ace, stop walking towards people who have their back to you. THIS MUST END!

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Just give it the ol' MCC try and program it, don't test it, then launch it. Surely you are good enough programmers to not make any mistakes without even testing your site?

 

Is this in relation to what the scoring system is? Not sure I see the connection with site functionality... unless this was just a platform for an MCC joke, in which case  :simms:

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I just can't understand why the arming mechanic and spawn times haven't seen adjustments. A lot of really obvious stuff has been wrong with assault since it was released.

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Think about assault on Tyrant, and think about a good team being able to force a team to spawn outside on their lift landing for assault.  The one play you have off spawn is jumping to a lone platform to maybe get an angle on the bomb planter.  The way it is set up right now has too many issues with spawns, and other factors.  In H2A the bomb stayed armed even if the enemy team touched it, unlike this game where you just touch it and it's reset.  With the way you can move in this game it just makes it so hard to arm on maps like truth.  It's just not ready for pro level play.  I think with some tweaking it could potentially be used in the future.  

scrims tonight?

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p6mv8.png

 

why does it do this (the -30)

 

we played a team of champions as well and it was close af.  idk just frustrating

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p6mv8.png

 

why does it do this (the -30)

 

we played a team of champions as well and it was close af.  idk just frustrating

My guess(if it's a normal thing) is that it's to stop you from having to go from onyx-champion-onyx-champion after every game.

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p6mv8.png

 

why does it do this (the -30)

 

we played a team of champions as well and it was close af.  idk just frustrating

 

 

A lot of times it depends on what the game type was and how you did. If flag and you had no caps but Lethul and Randa had 1 each then they lose less. Slayer, same thing with kills and so on.

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A lot of times it depends on what the game type was and how you did. If flag and you had no caps but Lethul and Randa had 1 each then they lose less. Slayer, same thing with kills and so on.

No, this is wrong if 343 is to be believed. The ranking system is solely based on win/loss, no individual performance (unless it's your placement matches, then maybe).

 

I personally gain 10 csr for every win and lose 10 csr for every loss.

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No, this is wrong if 343 is to be believed. The ranking system is solely based on win/loss, no individual performance (unless it's your placement matches, then maybe).

 

I personally gain 10 csr for every win and lose 10 csr for every loss.

 

 

Maybe that's just placement but I know when I am on top in a TS game I gain more than if I win Strongholds and get like 2 caps.

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