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HCS Pro League Summer 2016 Teams, Seeds, and Discussion‏

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Just agree to disagree because at every turn you're downplaying EG with whatever excuse you can come up with.

 

"Inaccurate representation", so it's EGs fault they showed up and performed and E6 didn't? Nv showed up and EG beat them twice...

Lol if you fail to see why pax is not an accurate representation of EG's currents position, then we cannot continue this conversation you are correct. I was not saying it was EG's fault I was merely pointing out that because of those mitigating factors which were in EG's favour we cannot use that tournament as an accurate representation.

 

But you keep looking at it through your rose tinted glasses my friend. #EGFanboy

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So papamikwen is actually mikwen'a dad? That's awesome.

 

Also I think power ranks should include scrim results. Whoever made the analogy about pre season NFL power rankings is right. There's no reason we as spectators can't talk about how we think teams stack up using whatever criteria and information is available.

 

Idk I think everyone should probably just relax a bit. : )

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Exactly. Weekly power rankings don't make sense when not every team is competing weekly.

 

They should be overall power rankings with adjustments made for teams that competed recently, not due to scrims.

 

That's not the power rankings fault though, when the HCS is designed in such a way that teams that qualify are no longer competing, you're forced to use online scrimmages and other metrics to rank the teams. 

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I almost stopped reading after the first sentence because I wasn't referring to you and I 100% didn't say you did anything when I responded to you. Go back and read it.

 

And "scrap engaging content" is hyperbolic, the only thing pros and some of your members, including myself, are saying is that RIGHT NOW they don't make sense and aren't needed.

 

If you want to do them, go for it, I'm clearly a fan, but I think if you ARE going to use scrims and ONLY scrims to judge teams then you're doing it wrong. It's practice.

 

 

 

Thanks for your riveting comment, who knows what I would have done if you stopped reading my post.

I went back and edited my post instantly, so you can go back and read it. 

 

"Hyperbolic" lol, absolutely not.  A handful of people on the forums are saying they dont make sense, because they disagree with the rankings, which is fine (this is engagement by the way).  While a few others are suggesting Power Rankings do not need to be done at all, which once again, I find hysterical. (This is counter productive thinking, "I dont like where my team or my favorite team ranked this week, delete power rankings!". Give me a break. 

 

Scrims are the most consistent form of competition that Halo has, if there were weekly LAN events we could base them around those, but you already know the answer to this complex riddle. I feel like this concept is basically common sense.

 

Scrims are the only consistent metric to rank teams in Halo, followed by the 3 LAN events we get a year.

 

We do Power Rankings after LAN events to rank the teams as well, and they are weighted higher than online scrims. Please re-read this.

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Lol if you fail to see why pax is not an accurate representation of EG's currents position, then we cannot continue is conversation you are correct. I was not saying it was EG's fault I was merely pointing out that because of those mitigating factors which were in EG's favour we cannot use that tournament as an accurate representation.

 

But you keep looking at it through your rose tinted glasses my friend. #EGFanboy

Yeah that's a good way to have an argument, call someone a fanboy.

 

I've been pretty clear that year, I like EG but this has nothing to do with it.

 

I'm an advocate for tournaments > practice.

Honestly for how well nV did at Burbank. It's all the more impressive that EG beat them twice. Especially when you consider nV was one of the most practiced teams for PAX and EG didn't even practice for two days before the tourney.

 

None of your arguments for pax meaning jack shit make any sense. Why? Because a team that's already qualified has had some lazy less than impressive practices the past week? So what? It's not about wins.

 

What's RNGs excuse for dropping two series to a team that's not even qualified? Where's your excuse there?

 

That's not the power rankings fault though, when the HCS is designed in such a way that teams that qualify are no longer competing, you're forced to use online scrimmages and other metrics to rank the teams.

I don't think you should ever use scrims to determine teams. EGs place should have just remained the same tbh.
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Exactly. Weekly power rankings don't make sense when not every team is competing weekly.

 

They should be overall power rankings with adjustments made for teams that competed recently, not due to scrims.

 

This logic does not make any sense. Most teams are practicing weekly, if a team takes a week off and provides no metric (Scrims) to base rankings upon, that is not our problem. Also FYI generally a team that takes a week off or even a weekend off can be rusty when they come back, aka losing a bunch of scrims.. also causing a lower ranking... 

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This logic does not make any sense. Most teams are practicing weekly, if a team takes a week off and provides no metric (Scrims) to base rankings upon, that is not our problem. Also FYI generally a team that takes a week off or even a weekend off can be rusty when they come back, aka losing a bunch of scrims.. also causing a lower ranking...

It's sad that you think I'm telling you guys to not do the rankings because my team placed lower. I watch a lot of sports, I've played them all my life, I guess the concept of judging teams off practice just doesn't make sense to me.

 

And yeah they tend to be rusty, but it's still not a guaranteed metric. Showing up for tournaments is what counts. RNG practiced nearly everyday before PAX, and they went to losers. Same with Optic, who didn't even qualify after dominating scrims. EG, didn't practice for two days before pax and won without dropping a game.

 

You should continue to do them, I love power rankings, but it's upsetting that you can't even take a moment to consider the argument that practice shouldn't be weighed for pre season rankings. Do them, but reconsider the practice weighting. More content the better.

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This logic does not make any sense. Most teams are practicing weekly, if a team takes a week off and provides no metric (Scrims) to base rankings upon, that is not our problem. Also FYI generally a team that takes a week off or even a weekend off can be rusty when they come back, aka losing a bunch of scrims.. also causing a lower ranking... 

I think the issue people are having here is that some people are basically trying to rank the best online scrim team and other people are trying to decide who the best teams in a tournament are and both groups are clashing over the power rankings because they're both taking it as if its directed towards them lol. Seems like people are just talking past each other.

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Liquid with Heinz might not be better than Elevate but it would make Elevate a lot worse and kill off any competition going into the LCQ

I kind of follow your logic, but let's be real. The three teams who realistically could make Pro League are:

 

Optic

Liquid

Elevate

 

You can't really "kill off" competition more than it already is. Would Heinz rather be on an on-fire Elevate and have Liquid have to scramble for a fourth, or on Liquid while Elevate has to find a fourth? If his potential 3 on Elevate are playing better than his potential 3 on Liquid at the moment, he has absolutely, positively no incentive to switch squads.

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@@ssbChad thanks for posting that.

 

I still really like Elevates chances. I think Liquids best bet now is 2gre.

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Commonly turned off his rebroadcasts and nobody else streamed the rng v elevate scrim last night. RIP in piece /r/prohalovods

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Yeah that's a good way to have an argument, call someone a fanboy.

 

I've been pretty clear that year, I like EG but this has nothing to do with it.

 

I'm an advocate for tournaments > practice.

Honestly for how well nV did at Burbank. It's all the more impressive that EG beat them twice. Especially when you consider nV was one of the most practiced teams for PAX and EG didn't even practice for two days before the tourney.

 

None of your arguments for pax meaning jack shit make any sense. Why? Because a team that's already qualified has had some lazy less than impressive practices the past week? So what? It's not about wins.

 

What's RNGs excuse for dropping two series to a team that's not even qualified? Where's your excuse there?

 

I don't think you should ever use scrims to determine teams. EGs place should have just remained the same tbh.

You are correct, EG did take two days just prior to PAX. But how long were they a team? how long had they formed?

 

I will answer that for you EG picked up suspector officially on March 23rd. More than 1 month prior to pax

Envyus offically picked up El town and Rayne April 8th just two weeks before the event

Optic picked up Ace 12 days before the evnt

And E6 formed April 11th

 

Do you see now why i sort of discredit that lan event win? The sheer amount of practice they got in was so much more than any other team. Other teams had just formed.

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You are correct, EG did take two days just prior to PAX. But how long were they a team? how long had they formed?

 

I will answer that for you EG picked up suspector officially on March 23rd. More than 1 month prior to pax

Envyus offically picked up El town and Rayne April 8th just two weeks before the event

Optic picked up Ace 12 days before the evnt

And E6 formed April 11th

 

Do you see now why i sort of discredit that lan event win? The sheer amount of practice they got in was so much more than any other team. Other teams had just formed.

I think if you looked at time practiced nV would have EG beat despite the time together, but I'm not sure tbh.

 

This is not basketball, the NBA, etc. Online Scrims are what I would say are the equivalent to a "Regular season game" in the NBA in my opinion, especially since we have very little regular season sanctioned events in Halo compared to other games. They are not as crazy as the playoffs (LAN), but they do have value in determining where a team is on the food chain.

 

Rather than once every 6 months basing power rankings on LAN events... LAN events simply do not happen enough to produce consistent content around, and during pro scrims I think we can all agree that players are trying their hardest to win, so I am not really seeing the issue here. Yeah Xbox Live, We had an off night/week, Online Warriors, yaddah yaddah, but that is the nature of the beast.

 

We understand that showing up for LAN tournaments "counts". Which is why LAN is weighted considerably heavier than any online Scrimmage.

 

Thanks for your permission Vin, with your holy blessing we will continue to do power rankings.

You're welcome, glad I could help.

 

Also agree to disagree, I don't think scrims mean that much. See @@Snipe Three's post he said it better than I could have and I really don't want to continue to argue with you.

 

Wait EG didn't drop a game?

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Also agree to disagree, I don't think scrims mean that much. See @@Snipe Three's post he said it better than I could have and I really don't want to continue to argue with you.

 

Scrims mean enough that when pro players take games off of other pro teams they are uploading and posting them, streaming them, etc. They have value, if you do not see that, then that is not my problem. 

 

Comparing to regular sports:

Scrims = Regular Season (most consistent metric to rate teams upon)

Pro League = Prime Time Matchups

LAN = Playoffs / Finals (Heavier weight than Regular season because more is on the line)

 

Dont worry, this is my last post about this nonsense. 

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What do you guys think the right decision for Spartan, Stellur, and Eco is?  Either they replace apg and get probably a weaker player, but someone that is guaranteed to be able to play in the LCQ or they stick with apg and have the best available teammate, but someone that might not be able to play at all.  That seems like a really tough decision.

 

edit:  Unrelated, but Commonly literally just put 3 smg bullets in someone and called them out as one shot.

you'd think with all the times Pros call out "one shot" or "absolute," they'd all be doing 5k+ damage per game lmao.

 

I think it's funny at this point. Why do they do it though? Since everyone does it, I'm pretty sure they all take that call-out with a grain of salt. It can't be helpful in the long run. Is it done to save face in the moment? Subconsciously?

 

I just don't see the positive in potentially putting your teammate in position to make a bad play, especially when they don't have the true information.

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Scrims mean enough that when pro players take games off of other pro teams they are uploading and posting them, streaming them, etc. They have value, if you do not see that, then that is not my problem.

 

This is my last post about this nonsense.

Yeah.... They have content value, sure?

 

But nothing to do with anything more than

practice.

 

A regular season game = online tournament/pro league match

 

Playoffs = LANs

 

IMO.

 

But yeah, I agree, I'm done too.

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3 scrim losing streak put you down to 8th, so you beating elv actually only bumped you up to 6th. Plz learn weighted averages. 

I applaud you for having the chutzpah/audacity to troll actual pros when you didn't even place at the last two LANs.

 

Do you even deserve a green name at this point? I mean, if Randa doesn't get one...

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Yeah.... They have content value, sure?

 

No. They are important milestones for players. Scrims matter. If OpTic 11-0d CLG in a Scrim tonight everyone would be going nuts, and so would you. Everyone knows they matter.

 

Here is how Halo / eSports works:

We destroy a team in a scrim = We are the sickest ever.

We lose badly in a scrim = We werent trying, the host sucked, these kids are warriors, scrims dont matter.

 

Also "content value".  Lets not pretend any online scrim posted is raking in a ton of views. Re-uploading scrims from your stream has literally 0 value in my eyes and it is very lazy content.

 

 

We can keep going if you keep responding with things that dont make much sense.

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Anyway... back into hiding I go.  :wutface:

YOU BETTER TURN RIGHT THE FUCK AROUND AND COME ON OUT OF HIDING

 

Seriously though, I hope you aren't done casting for us. We give you shit, but that's most likely because we don't have the mental and emotional capacity to offer proper critiques :kappa:

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