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The 4sk Pistol debate

  

154 members have voted

  1. 1. What change to the current Pistol do you want?

    • 4sk with same TTK (time to kill)
      13
    • 4sk with faster TTK of all rifles
      75
    • 5sk with same TTK (So, No changes at all)
      50
    • 5sk with faster TTK of all rifles
      5
    • Other (discuss in thread)
      11


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A 4 shot pistol with a slightly reduced aim assist is by far the best and most important update this game can have. The other rifles can stay on the map but they'll be put in the back seat where they should be.

 

The current system would possibly work if this were a true arena shooter and allowed players to carry 10+ weapons at a time. That way players can make true strategic plays depending on the situation and can be prepared for every situation. But halo isn't designed that way at all and a single true utility weapon will always work best. Not this rock,paper,scissors gamplay we have now. General rule of design is "Keep it simple".

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After seeing both sides go at it and seeing some pros say the pistol is fine, i think we should try a middle ground. buff the red reticule range of the pistol a bit so that it can hang with the rifles a little better, and increase the magazine size to 15 shots. This partnered with an auto nerf and a bullet magnetism nerf across the board would make the game play much better. 

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After seeing both sides go at it and seeing some pros say the pistol is fine, i think we should try a middle ground. buff the red reticule range of the pistol a bit so that it can hang with the rifles a little better, and increase the magazine size to 15 shots. This partnered with an auto buff and a bullet magnetism nerf across the board would make the game play much better.

Auto buff?

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A 4 shot pistol with a slightly reduced aim assist is by far the best and most important update this game can have. The other rifles can stay on the map but they'll be put in the back seat where they should be.

 

The current system would possibly work if this were a true arena shooter and allowed players to carry 10+ weapons at a time. That way players can make true strategic plays depending on the situation and can be prepared for every situation. But halo isn't designed that way at all and a single true utility weapon will always work best. Not this rock,paper,scissors gamplay we have now. General rule of design is "Keep it simple".

I'd be all for lower aim assist if the aiming in this game wasn't so flat out uncomfortable. Until they fix it, I'd rather them not touch it.

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Auto buff?

 

Can't you see, the Auto's are clearly the weapons that suffer most in the current sandbox. /s

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The point is, in Halo 2 and 3, the disadvantage off spawn forced MLG to start us with the BR. If 343 refuses to buff the magnum, I don't understand how anyone can say the current settings for the magnum and the rifles are fine. We are just repeating history over and over again.

 

Fixed.  I remember it took bungie a really long time to not make BTB SMG/AR starts.  If it wasn't for MLG we would have never gotten a Team HXC/MLG playlist in either game.

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I'd be all for lower aim assist if the aiming in this game wasn't so flat out uncomfortable. Until they fix it, I'd rather them not touch it.

The idea is to extend the Magnum's red reticle range slightly so that it handles more like the rifles, but then to decrease the bullet magnetism moderately so that the faster kill time will still feel fair. With one fewer shot to kill, perfect kills will involve a bit less whirling about. This change will make aiming easier while rendering it more difficult to hit a target. It's a win-win, and I think it's more likely to happen than for 343 even to acknowledge that the aiming is still a huge problem.

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Fixed.  I remember it took bungie a really long time to not make BTB SMG/AR starts.  If it wasn't for MLG we would have never gotten a Team HXC/MLG playlist in either game.

 

Although I didn't start playing Halo until The 4, that just sounds awful.

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Although I didn't start playing Halo until The 4, that just sounds awful.

 

I vaguely remember the br getting some kind of patch early on? I remember them being a non issue in btb in h2 vanilla(I feel like the shot reg at a distance was just the worst, or it was just not great all around and they made it worlds better.)  And then plasma nades got one too in an update(think they got their timers fixed because they would take forever to explode.)  BTB was all about vehicle rushing to power ups.  If host got snipe on coagulation it was game over if they were able to spawn trap you.   The closest they had to a competitive setting in MM was in TS/Rumble Pit with Slayer Pro gametypes(br starts no radar.)  But that was when ranking up wasn't fast and the highest rank was like a 32 in TS.  I remember when they put in the HXC playlist, it was so damn great.  The HXC FFA one...not so much.  If you pulled host it was GG.   Plus you'd get like FFAs on Sanc and the spawns were terrible.

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But that was when ranking up wasn't fast and the highest rank was like a 32 in TS.  I remember when they put in the HXC playlist, it was so damn great.  The HXC FFA one...not so much.  If you pulled host it was GG.   Plus you'd get like FFAs on Sanc and the spawns were terrible.

 

So correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like that ranking up in Halo 2 primarily served the purpose of having players grind to a specific achievement, whereas in Halo 5 it seems to exist to grant players with fairer matches?

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So correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like that ranking up in Halo 2 primarily served the purpose of having players grind to a specific achievement, whereas in Halo 5 it seems to exist to grant players with fairer matches?

 

Well yes and no.  To me they seem to be similar in the sense of pairing you up with those in some kind of accordance to your skill level(because what makes a match fair?  The only thing to me thats considered fair is just no cheating, you get stomped because you aren't good, sure its 'unfair' in a sympathetic sense, but it is what it is.  People run matches on alts/'smurfs' on the regular and those unsuspecting low ranks get the business.)  In the beginning it was 'tough' to rank up because you didn't gain so much from wins and you lost a shitload when you lost.  Later on they just adjusted how much you'd win from matches according to your placing at the end of the game.  So it was a grind, but at that point the skill gap was still being set so having a game close to your skill level was a toss up from game to game.   The problem with number ranks was the encouragement of cheating.   When Bungie reset ranks i'd not even fuck and play nothing but customs for a week or so and let all the cheaters boost/standby/mod their way back to rock solid e-peen status.

 

 

As far as a 4sk pistol....idk.

 

RRR increase would be tits.  As long as its balanced idc.  I think the TTK is fine tbh.  Biggest concern with an increased pistol strength is the increased team shot melt factor.  But if its not a game breaker then idc.

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Biggest concern with an increased pistol strength is the increased team shot melt factor.

You can help alleviate team-shooting with the use of map design(example creating room-based maps like Chill Out). https://youtu.be/CxJKxWPgfjc?t=5m55s

 

Having a utility weapon that has a fast minimum TTK that is hard for players to achieve and also having the average TTK be much longer than the minimum TTK would empower skilled individual players to get kills on their own without having to rely on team-shooting. http://teambeyond.net/forum/topic/12361-why-kill-times-matter/

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Biggest concern with an increased pistol strength is the increased team shot melt factor.

Bruh.

 

Faster killtimes REDUCE teamshooting.

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Bruh.

 

Faster killtimes REDUCE teamshooting.

 

 

And why would you want to do that?  

 

Teamshooting has been a staple in halo FOREVER.

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Bruh.

 

Faster killtimes REDUCE teamshooting.

 

Accidental neg btw.  Fixed it though.

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And why would you want to do that?

 

Teamshooting has been a staple in halo FOREVER.

So we should preserve teamshooting for the sake of tradition...?

 

Teamshooting is the lowest possible form of teamwork, and the game's meta is not allowed to evolve when teamshooting is the only form of teamwork that is allowed.

 

Teamshooting didn't have this stranglehold on gameplay until we doubled the minimum kill time in halo 2 & the individual was gimped.

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I would just nerf the storm rifle health damage, and then make the pistol 4sk with low bullet mag. Keep everything else the same. I do not see how this would not work. 

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So we should preserve teamshooting for the sake of tradition...?

 

Teamshooting is the lowest possible form of teamwork, and the game's meta is not allowed to evolve when teamshooting is the only form of teamwork that is allowed.

 

Teamshooting didn't have this stranglehold on gameplay until we doubled the minimum kill time in halo 2 & the individual was gimped.

 

 

Where's that Lemon video explaining some of this stuff? It was released when the competitive world was up in arms at the eternity it took to kill anyone in Halo 3. 

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Where's that Lemon video explaining some of this stuff? It was released when the competitive world was up in arms at the eternity it took to kill anyone in Halo 3.

This^

 

It has been wiped from the face of the internet

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So we should preserve teamshooting for the sake of tradition...?

 

Teamshooting is the lowest possible form of teamwork, and the game's meta is not allowed to evolve when teamshooting is the only form of teamwork that is allowed.

 

Teamshooting didn't have this stranglehold on gameplay until we doubled the minimum kill time in halo 2 & the individual was gimped.

Halo is so communication-heavy now that you can't get around focus firing.

Yes, slightly faster kills that what we currently have would be welcome, but you're not going to immediately stop teamshot.

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Halo is so communication-heavy now that you can't get around focus firing.

Yes, slightly faster kills that what we currently have would be welcome, but you're not going to immediately stop teamshot.

The point is not to remove teamshot

 

The point is to make the game not revolve around it

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The weapon balance in this game is perfect (with regards to semi-automatics), messing with the pistol like this would make picking up the carbine or BR obsolete. 

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Is anyone here against a 4sk pistol.

Me so come at me boys. Higher TTK tends to mean higher skill as more chance for the unskilled to miss a shot or you to dodge a bullet. I also think you would die just too fast but are halo fans really asking for a lower TTK did I miss a memo or something?? On Lan this game runs perfectly.

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Can someone explain to me how a 4sk pistol makes the BR obsolete (which Id strongly disagree) but a 5sk doesn't make the DMR obsolete?

CC will has its rather unique role in the sandbox since has both accuracy and a high ROF, I like to see it as some sort of bridging weapon between semi automatic precision weapons and full auto spray weapons.

 

Since some many people are so afraid of a 4sk pistol, what about adding damage drop-off? so you get a nice 4sk pistol that can compete with SMG/SR at RRR but it is still a 5sk beyond RRR so BR fans don't have to be scared that picking up their holy grail might eventually could become a little less obligatory?

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