Jump to content
mierder

The 4sk Pistol debate

  

154 members have voted

  1. 1. What change to the current Pistol do you want?

    • 4sk with same TTK (time to kill)
      13
    • 4sk with faster TTK of all rifles
      75
    • 5sk with same TTK (So, No changes at all)
      50
    • 5sk with faster TTK of all rifles
      5
    • Other (discuss in thread)
      11


Recommended Posts

I personally disagree. ADS buffs shouldn't give people advantages. This would just lead to people mashing RS in gunfights and sitting places scoped in because they do more damage this way.

The light rifle has the same TTK scoped in as it does scoped out. There is no ADS buff.

Share this post


Link to post

The light rifle has the same TTK scoped in as it does scoped out. There is no ADS buff.

I feel like that's not true.

Share this post


Link to post

The light rifle has the same TTK scoped in as it does scoped out. There is no ADS buff.

On paper no, realistically yes. I absolutely feel an advantage scoped with the LR as opposed to descoped. Also, shooting someone that has been hit by any other amount of damage not caused by the LR will show different TTKs with scoped/unscoped.

 

If anything it should be reversed. 3sk descoped to reward players for landing shots without RRR. 4sk scoped for more constant pressure at distance.

Share this post


Link to post

I think the key flaw of the entire games weapon balancing in arena is that the pistol is simultaneously the hardest weapon to use and arguably the worst choice when given the opportunity to pick up something else barring silly things like trying to cross map AR. All rifles are just an easier to use pistol. All automatics are just easier to use and are equally efficient at close range while often actually being more powerful at close range. Map design and radar compound the problem almost always making CQC an option.

 

The problem is that they decided every gun should be easier to use than the pistol. Every gun respawns so quickly that there aren't very many situations where you can't opt for something else. The difficulty of mastering the pistol is never rewarded. You're always struggling to just be equal. 4sk would fix this. Its that or re balance spawn times and/or aim assist values on nearly every gun in the game. 

  • Upvote (+1) 8

Share this post


Link to post

What's the beef @?

I guess my reply was not posted. Pushing for all of that is too much. 343's stance on their abilities is firm and they're not going to budge until the next main Halo title bombs significantly with sales. Let's instead focus on making this game competitively viable with all of it's bullshit.

 

Neg rep was accident. +1 rep

  • Upvote (+1) 2
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

On paper no, realistically yes. I absolutely feel an advantage scoped with the LR as opposed to descoped. Also, shooting someone that has been hit by any other amount of damage not caused by the LR will show different TTKs with scoped/unscoped.

 

If anything it should be reversed. 3sk descoped to reward players for landing shots without RRR. 4sk scoped for more constant pressure at distance.

It's the same TTK scoped/unscoped, thus it does the same damage no matter the health of the player. When your unscoped shoooting at someone, 99% of the time they are in red reticle range. No one is trying to cross map pistol unscoped. Would be horrible to balance it that way.

 

Whatever utility weapon, same kill times unscoped/scoped, faster ROF unscoped so you can actually outplay someone thats worse than you if you got shot first, slow rate of fire scoped in.

 

It's really the perfect balance of making sure a utility weapon is hard both at range and close. You can have a weapon that's semi hard at range like the H5 pistol and hitting shots cross map is a nightmare, or you could have a weapon like the Halo 2 BR that can kill people at range efficiently, but it too easy in close range because of that. The light rifle is a pretty good example of a good utility weapon that keeps skill without making it to hard at either range.

Share this post


Link to post

It's the same TTK scoped/unscoped, thus it does the same damage no matter the health of the player. When your unscoped shoooting at someone, 99% of the time they are in red reticle range. No one is trying to cross map pistol unscoped. Would be horrible to balance it that way.

 

Whatever utility weapon, same kill times unscoped/scoped, faster ROF unscoped so you can actually outplay someone thats worse than you if you got shot first, slow rate of fire scoped in.

 

It's really the perfect balance of making sure a utility weapon is hard both at range and close. You can have a weapon that's semi hard at range like the H5 pistol and hitting shots cross map is a nightmare, or you could have a weapon like the Halo 2 BR that can kill people at range efficiently, but it too easy in close range because of that. The light rifle is a pretty good example of a good utility weapon that keeps skill without making it to hard at either range.

Are you 100% sure it has te same kill time unscoped and scoped? Even if it didn't, as someone mentioned earlier, it messes with any other form of damage as well. A scoped in shot plus a nade that hits you slightly will do more damage than unzoomed and the same thing. There are many many more scenarios. So even of the kill times are the same there are many more factors at play. Just like peek shooting (so you can scope in and hit every shot dealing more damage each time). I'm just not feeling 2 seperate fire rates with different damage outputs.

Share this post


Link to post

Are you 100% sure it has te same kill time unscoped and scoped? Even if it didn't, as someone mentioned earlier, it messes with any other form of damage as well. A scoped in shot plus a nade that hits you slightly will do more damage than unzoomed and the same thing. There are many many more scenarios. So even of the kill times are the same there are many more factors at play. Just like peek shooting (so you can scope in and hit every shot dealing more damage each time). I'm just not feeling 2 seperate fire rates with different damage outputs.

Single damage outputs across the board are pretty bad for console video games. It's just turns into weapons that are easy at range and because of that, too easy at close range like the H2 BR, or weapons that are hard in close range and because of that, too hard at distance like the H5 pistol. Something needs to be done so a weapon has the same kill times whether it's long or short range, while keeping the same skill gap at all ranges as well. I think the light rifle does a good job of this.

 

Every Halo game has had this problem since H2 came out really.

Share this post


Link to post

Single damage outputs across the board are pretty bad for console video games. It's just turns into weapons that are easy at range and because of that, too easy at close range like the H2 BR, or weapons that are hard in close range and because of that, too hard at distance like the H5 pistol. Something needs to be done so a weapon has the same kill times whether it's long or short range, while keeping the same skill gap at all ranges as well. I think the light rifle does a good job of this.

 

Every Halo game has had this problem since H2 came out really.

The reason the magnum sucks at long range is because it has terrible RRR and zoom. And it's always going to be more difficult to hit targets at range because the target is smaller and you need to be a lot more precise. But why should kill times be the same no matter the range? I also don't get how the light rifle helps this at all. It would just mean people scoping in more or mashing scope in gunfights like they do now. Sure that may be more "difficult" but it wouldn't be fun at all.
  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

It definitely doesnt help that there are so many precision weapons in H5. 343 were saying how theyve made it really easy to change how to weapons work before launch. Yet we're like 4 months from launch and still have a terrible utility weapon, Laser is pointless, Sniping is too easy and infact basically all the weapons are too easy.

  • Upvote (+1) 4

Share this post


Link to post

@mierder 

You should post a vote poll up asking if people want a 4sk pistol.

 

 

I just added a poll :D

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

The reason the magnum sucks at long range is because it has terrible RRR and zoom. And it's always going to be more difficult to hit targets at range because the target is smaller and you need to be a lot more precise. But why should kill times be the same no matter the range? I also don't get how the light rifle helps this at all. It would just mean people scoping in more or mashing scope in gunfights like they do now. Sure that may be more "difficult" but it wouldn't be fun at all.

 

Yup. I don't care about how difficult a game is if it doesn't feel good to play. Some of the first things I would change about this game, namely changing the aiming system and buffing the strafe/movement acceleration, largely have to do with making the game just feel better (although they would also make it more competitive, too).

Share this post


Link to post

Take vanilla settings in either H2 or H3 (SMG/AR starts). Put about 8 different spawns for the BR. Make them spawn every 15-30 seconds.

 

This is almost exactly what we have in H5.

 

A game where, off spawn, you want to trade your weapon for something else. In H2 or H3, it was because you were at a disadvantage because of the lack of range your weapon had compared to the on map pickups.

 

H5 is the same way. When you spawn, you are at a disadvantage. All rifles have better scopes, RRR, and bullet mag compared to the magnum.

 

This should be fixed in one of 3 ways, and realistically, point #1 will never happen because it is too drastic at this point in the game's life cycle.

 

#1. The BR, DMR, Carbine, and LR should all have longer kill times than the magnum. This would make the current magnum stronger than any other rifle. This works because the current magnum is the hardest rifle to use. If player A isn't good with the magnum, there are 2-3 different rifles on every map he can pick up, sacrificing kill time for ease of use.

 

This is unrealistic because this would effect changing 4 different weapons. So,

 

#2. Buff the magnum. Preferably to a 4sk. You can even lower the rate of fire slightly so it isn't as drastic a buff as it sounds.

 

#3. BR starts. But this doesn't make any sense. 343 has stated they want the magnum to be the utility weapon. And the BR, quite frankly, is too easy to use in H5.

 

The point is, in Halo 2 and 3, the disadvantage off spawn forced Bungie to start us with the BR. If 343 refuses to buff the magnum, I don't understand how anyone can say the current settings for the magnum and the rifles are fine. We are just repeating history over and over again.

  • Upvote (+1) 5

Share this post


Link to post

Take vanilla settings in either H2 or H3 (SMG/AR starts). Put about 8 different spawns for the BR. Make them spawn every 15-30 seconds.

 

This is almost exactly what we have in H5.

 

A game where, off spawn, you want to trade your weapon for something else. In H2 or H3, it was because you were at a disadvantage because of the lack of range your weapon had compared to the on map pickups.

 

H5 is the same way. When you spawn, you are at a disadvantage. All rifles have better scopes, RRR, and bullet mag compared to the magnum.

 

This should be fixed in one of 3 ways, and realistically, point #1 will never happen because it is too drastic at this point in the game's life cycle.

 

#1. The BR, DMR, Carbine, and LR should all have longer kill times than the magnum. This would make the current magnum stronger than any other rifle. This works because the current magnum is the hardest rifle to use. If player A isn't good with the magnum, there are 2-3 different rifles on every map he can pick up, sacrificing kill time for ease of use.

 

This is unrealistic because this would effect changing 4 different weapons. So,

 

#2. Buff the magnum. Preferably to a 4sk. You can even lower the rate of fire slightly so it isn't as drastic a buff as it sounds.

 

#3. BR starts. But this doesn't make any sense. 343 has stated they want the magnum to be the utility weapon. And the BR, quite frankly, is too easy to use in H5.

 

The point is, in Halo 2 and 3, the disadvantage off spawn forced Bungie to start us with the BR. If 343 refuses to buff the magnum, I don't understand how anyone can say the current settings for the magnum and the rifles are fine. We are just repeating history over and over again.

I'd love to see 343 actually debate and discuss stuff like this.

Share this post


Link to post

The point is, in Halo 2 and 3, the disadvantage off spawn forced Bungie to start us with the BR. If 343 refuses to buff the magnum, I don't understand how anyone can say the current settings for the magnum and the rifles are fine. We are just repeating history over and over again.

 

 

I think one thing 343 wanted to accomplish in Halo 5 is a variety of weapons usage on all skill levels.

 

This is good for casual players/viewer, i remember in the past a lot of "casual" friends bored with competitive Halo because it was always Br, Br, Br ,Br... Sniper, Rockets or Shotgun. I am fine with a small sandbox, but i understand the point of that players and from 343 (they want to growth players base and viewers).

 

But as you say, it feels really forced. I always feel the need to pick/upgrade my Pistol for a better rifle, and it shouldn't be and upgrade. It should be a trade off (per example, if a grab the BR then i know i have easier aiming and long range headshots, can put a lot of damage from long range, but could get melted in close to mid range by a 4sk Pistoler).

Share this post


Link to post

Could you elaborate? So i can fix it.

4sk with faster TTK of all rifles

 

Fastest?

Share this post


Link to post

4sk with faster TTK of all rifles

 

Fastest?

 

Oh i see, i guess it should say reduced TTK.

That sounds fine? Sorry english is my 2nd language, help me here  :wutface:

Share this post


Link to post

I'd love to see a 4sk pistol. However if I had a choice I'd rather see radar and automatics gone first.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

I voted other because I would like 4sk but only reduce the TTK very slightly from the TTK we have currently. I also think two extra bullets per mag would go a long way as well. I'm also a little torn because I don't have that big of problem with the weapon balance now, except I would nerf the SR's health damage slightly.

Share this post


Link to post

We dont even need the DMR and BR in this game. At least theres an excuse with having the LR and Carbine....1 precision weapon per 'race'. The DMR is just an easy to use Pistol, the BR is easy to use even if it did have aim assist and bullet mag reduced.

 

I think a good middle ground would be to make the Pistol a 4 shot and make the kill times of all the other precision weapons longer.

 

If I had it my way I would just get rid of the BR and DMR from Arena and leave them in Warzone. Along with making the Pistol a 4 shot.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

We dont even need the DMR and BR in this game. At least theres an excuse with having the LR and Carbine....1 precision weapon per 'race'. The DMR is just an easy to use Pistol, the BR is easy to use even if it did have aim assist and bullet mag reduced.

 

I think a good middle ground would be to make the Pistol a 4 shot and make the kill times of all the other precision weapons longer.

 

If I had it my way I would just get rid of the BR and DMR from Arena and leave them in Warzone. Along with making the Pistol a 4 shot.

Extreme weapon balancing lol.

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.