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JonnyTBOA

My last chance-H1 Shadowrun

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Shadow run is more complex than Halo CE?

Me and Teapot differ on this, because I believe Shadowrun is 100% more complex than Halo CE.  Don't get me wrong, when I was in highschool I lanned H1 every weekend..  and got kicked out of many of them because apparently using the CE pistol was unfair.  A couple times me and my buddies got our parents to drive us 2-3 hours to play at lan tournaments with 6 teams..  I fucking loved the game.  However, the comparison I use is Halo is checkers, Shadowrun is chess.

 

Forget about the dozen or so other abilities, and just focus on teleportation...  That ability itself made the game on a different level.  The maps were built in three dimensions, and the ability to teleport up/down/left/right... even through walls, changes everything.  In halo if a team is attacking your base, you throw grenades at the doorway and watch perhaps the 1-2 areas you can be flanked from.  It doesn't work like that in Shadowrun.  The ability to teleport through walls/floors/ceilings changes everything.. 

 

Then throw in all the different abilities, the buy strats, the setups, pushes, etc. etc. etc...  Shadowrun is on a completely different level than any Halo could be.

 

(Oh, and BTW...  SR was built on the H1 engine.)

 

Bro your like my hero, I don't think we ever talked but I was bottom of the barrel of privates in 2011? Shaba took me under his wing kinda fml.. Lol but I always wished I was good enough to play with people like you an majin an the other good players. I miss the game because I always felt like I was improving and becoming a smarter player not just in shadowrun, but in other competitive games as well.

 

I honestly believe halo 5 works and is balenced enough to be a respectable competative game, but it's just not fun or stimulating to me personally. I'd rather play h1 or h3

Haha.  I wouldn't admit to many SR people that Shaba took you under his wing.  Shadowrun was a very hard game to break into, the learning curve was ridiculous and the private community so dedicated and small that even some people who were good didn't get into privates because they didn't play enough, didn't communicate, or had high latency.  I was lucky enough to jump straight from public matches into having a top 5 team, which introduced me to some of the best players in the game, and before long I was getting to team with them.  Actually I let my friend borrow my 360 controller, need to get it back so I can pop on SR every once in a while.

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Me and Teapot differ on this, because I believe Shadowrun is 100% more complex than Halo CE.  Don't get me wrong, when I was in highschool I lanned H1 every weekend..  and got kicked out of many of them because apparently using the CE pistol was unfair.  A couple times me and my buddies got our parents to drive us 2-3 hours to play at lan tournaments with 6 teams..  I fucking loved the game.  However, the comparison I use is Halo is checkers, Shadowrun is chess.

 

Forget about the dozen or so other abilities, and just focus on teleportation...  That ability itself made the game on a different level.  The maps were built in three dimensions, and the ability to teleport up/down/left/right... even through walls, changes everything.  In halo if a team is attacking your base, you throw grenades at the doorway and watch perhaps the 1-2 areas you can be flanked from.  It doesn't work like that in Shadowrun.  The ability to teleport through walls/floors/ceilings changes everything.. 

 

Then throw in all the different abilities, the buy strats, the setups, pushes, etc. etc. etc...  Shadowrun is on a completely different level than any Halo could be.

 

(Oh, and BTW...  SR was built on the H1 engine.)

 

 

I'd like to try to change your perspective if you are open to it. I will link you to a thread I made detailing CE's depth and what you need to know. I'm not quite sure what your level is because although there was a skill gap in CE in the early years, the meta game was an incredibly tiny fraction of what it became.

 

It sound as if you are trying to compare the games from the perspective of whenever you played CE. It does cause for some bias if that is the case, considering the majority of high level CE was pushed well after Halo 3 came out. Sounds like you are commenting on 2004 CE or something, and even 2007/2009 CE would look lack-luster compared to Shadowrun. The game has been evolving for over a decade because the depth is there.

 

Also, one unrelated issue I have with Shadowrun was that we never got to see it's true potential. It could and should have continue to evolve but it didn't have the skill/player base required to push it. This makes me sad.

 

  • Surface level depth = all the intricate stuff you can use or see or do.
  • Below surface level depth = things you can control/manipulate that aren't visible.

Shadowrun absolutely cleans up the entire Halo series on it's surface level depth. There's literally so much of it, that it's hard to see how any other game can be in the same sentence. You mentioned a bunch of stuff that I all agree with. I all would put that into this category.

 

Halo CE has arguably the most amount of below the surface depth I've ever seen. These things aren't visible to new players or even experienced players. Infact 2v2 CE is the only thing in my mind that can be considered a chess match in the realm of Halo. The spawn system demands such a high level of responsibility out of a player and gives them complete control of their intentions. Sounds like fluff, but no other game works like this.

 

I explained it to another Shadowrun player. You purposely and intentionally stand on or near certain areas to guarantee certain spawns or to guarantee a random spawn. These actions should be met with a similar approach to teleport. You gain a free teleport for your teammate that can be used aggressively or passively. You can spawn (teleport) him 3 levels higher than you and obtain high ground, but only by standing in the right spot at the right time. At high level gameplay, every literal spawn is met with this calculation. People often complain about getting spawn killed in CE but don't even realize that it is 100% their teammates fault.

 

Here's a link to a Halo CE mega thread. http://teambeyond.net/forum/topic/9497-halo-ce-spawn-system-incomplete/

 

There are quite a few surface level intricacies and stuff, but the spawn system and weapon nading pretty much created a meta that could evolve for a decade. 

 

I really do feel like these two are the only chess match FPS out there. I feel confident saying that although they are completely different games, they really do share the same level of depth. I was lucky enough to play against some incredibly good players in Shadowrun, as well as top Halo CE players from the power rankings, all during a time when the games were figured out to a certain point.

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Link CE power rankings pls. thx

 

I was trying to find the full list but so far it's just the top 22.. I can contact McDick to get the full list but everything online has just this sole picture.

 

K5f8MTu.png

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I was trying to find the full list but so far it's just the top 22.. I can contact McDick to get the full list but everything online has just this sole picture.

 

K5f8MTu.png

the full list just had votes from locals so it was disregarded and its pointless to include

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Shadowrun was a pretty fun game, played it on PC for some time. Never got to know the competitive side of it though.

If you like Halo 1 ask stunt_man he's got the link to a Discord chatroom where you can find 2v2 games for Halo xlink and Halo CE on PC.

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You're right, I am thinking of CE as the 2001-2004 game, honestly I've probably only played it split-screen against pretty terrible players(friends at parties) since H2 dropped.  Making me think I should really get the MCC, even if it's getting harder to play competitively in my old age. 

Thanks to to the early days of the internet, most of what you posted was common knowledge to good CE players.  Multiple people getting powerups, grenading powerups down, weapons across maps, those were things that we did every game.  I was stoked that the 'Combat Evolved' was back in H5 because I cannot tell you how many hours I spent after school running around maps and simply practicing grenading myself weapons.  The only thing in that mega-thread that wasn't something me and my 'teammates' (which were pretty much just my neighborhood friends and my best friend/eventual H2 teammate) regularly practiced was forcing spawns and that strategy.  Granted I haven't read all of the specifics of forcing spawns, I get the idea, and that is a huge aspect to the game... it really does add another aspect of strategy to the game.

 

However, that wouldn't work nearly as well or be near as important in 4v4s, where competitive console FPS has always been.  I have no doubt that you've played against some really good Shadowrun players, and probably seen your fair share of tournament gameplays, competitive SR involved so much more thought than Halo has ever had IMO. 

 

In almost every battle there were tiny little things that you could do that could completely change the course of the fight, for example;

 

Grabbing a troll's minigun/katana and moving it before he's rezzed

Gusting bodies away from eachother(or even better, off the map)

Gusting bodies closer to eachother for double/triple rezzes

Strangling bodies(or doorways, etc)

AMGing walls

Shooting enemies strategic AMGs

Gusting away a rezzer

 

To me there's nothing in Halo that compares to grabbing a troll's minigun before he's rezzed.  I did it all the time, especially in scrims, it was something so minuscule that it seemed like it wouldn't even matter... but it could win games.  Same with gusting bodies, strangling bodies, AMGing walls..  Especially as an elf, in scrims against top players and bigtime slayers, I put a lot of focus into small things like that... it was stuff that didn't show up on the stats, but stuff that could completely change a match.  One of my favorite things to do?  Jump up on crane or the ship on Nerve Center, wait for my teammates to call out they had people hurt, and send a gust-nade on a wall-bank into elevator to get 2-3 kills on their tree...  Call a push, and 30 seconds later the round is over. 

 

That's what I mean by Shadowrun having more complexity.  Along with the ability to teleport which is a complete game changer, there were a million different things to do each game that changed the outcome.  CE had a good amount of game changing little quirks like are mentioned in that thread, but IMO Shadowrun was still on a different level.  Halo is a good FPS, it's a competitive shooter that depends on a good amount of teamwork and gunskill... but Shadowrun was a chess game through and through.  Shadowrun is a game that is even more advanced and complex than most PC games, even when watching games like CS:GO and Unreal seem almost boring because there just isn't that complexity that Shadowrun had.  I don't know, perhaps I'm just really biased and jaded from years of playing SR competitively and falling inlove with it, I just don't think there's any game that comes close to it. 

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I was lucky enough to jump straight from public matches into having a top 5 team, which introduced me to some of the best players in the game, and before long I was getting to team with them.

ayyyyy

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The little things are the best part of Sr. And the Telly jukes... Gust Telly out of vent over the wall, quick map glider for the hesitation, if they even see they think you killed yourself, Telly to tunnels. Mmmmmm so toasty

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You're right, I am thinking of CE as the 2001-2004 game, honestly I've probably only played it split-screen against pretty terrible players(friends at parties) since H2 dropped.  Making me think I should really get the MCC, even if it's getting harder to play competitively in my old age. 

Thanks to to the early days of the internet, most of what you posted was common knowledge to good CE players.  Multiple people getting powerups, grenading powerups down, weapons across maps, those were things that we did every game.  I was stoked that the 'Combat Evolved' was back in H5 because I cannot tell you how many hours I spent after school running around maps and simply practicing grenading myself weapons.  The only thing in that mega-thread that wasn't something me and my 'teammates' (which were pretty much just my neighborhood friends and my best friend/eventual H2 teammate) regularly practiced was forcing spawns and that strategy.  Granted I haven't read all of the specifics of forcing spawns, I get the idea, and that is a huge aspect to the game... it really does add another aspect of strategy to the game.

 

However, that wouldn't work nearly as well or be near as important in 4v4s, where competitive console FPS has always been.  I have no doubt that you've played against some really good Shadowrun players, and probably seen your fair share of tournament gameplays, competitive SR involved so much more thought than Halo has ever had IMO. 

 

In almost every battle there were tiny little things that you could do that could completely change the course of the fight, for example;

 

Grabbing a troll's minigun/katana and moving it before he's rezzed

Gusting bodies away from eachother(or even better, off the map)

Gusting bodies closer to eachother for double/triple rezzes

Strangling bodies(or doorways, etc)

AMGing walls

Shooting enemies strategic AMGs

Gusting away a rezzer

 

To me there's nothing in Halo that compares to grabbing a troll's minigun before he's rezzed.  I did it all the time, especially in scrims, it was something so minuscule that it seemed like it wouldn't even matter... but it could win games.  Same with gusting bodies, strangling bodies, AMGing walls..  Especially as an elf, in scrims against top players and bigtime slayers, I put a lot of focus into small things like that... it was stuff that didn't show up on the stats, but stuff that could completely change a match.  One of my favorite things to do?  Jump up on crane or the ship on Nerve Center, wait for my teammates to call out they had people hurt, and send a gust-nade on a wall-bank into elevator to get 2-3 kills on their tree...  Call a push, and 30 seconds later the round is over. 

 

That's what I mean by Shadowrun having more complexity.  Along with the ability to teleport which is a complete game changer, there were a million different things to do each game that changed the outcome.  CE had a good amount of game changing little quirks like are mentioned in that thread, but IMO Shadowrun was still on a different level.  Halo is a good FPS, it's a competitive shooter that depends on a good amount of teamwork and gunskill... but Shadowrun was a chess game through and through.  Shadowrun is a game that is even more advanced and complex than most PC games, even when watching games like CS:GO and Unreal seem almost boring because there just isn't that complexity that Shadowrun had.  I don't know, perhaps I'm just really biased and jaded from years of playing SR competitively and falling inlove with it, I just don't think there's any game that comes close to it. 

 

The fact that the devs haven't made a game like Shadowrun really showcases how each generation is more dumbed down than the previous. Just look at what it has become, with games like Destiny and the Division, which simply reward players for time spent playing rather than use of actual skill.  The COD generation ruined competitive FPS gaming.  We need another game like Shadowrun but no company will make it because gamers these days want instant gratification.  Tell a 20 year old that he needs to beat Ninja Gaiden or Battletoads on NES and watch him squirm in defeat.

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