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Halo 5: Guardians Arena Gameplay Settings Thread

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The rest of this is just you repeating yourself for like the fourth time over.

 

Because you're making the exact same argument for like the fourth time over? Are you expecting new and exciting rebuttals to your insistence that no one but you having an issue with this one completely trivial mechanic is the reason Halo is bad (or whatever the hell you're on about at this point)? I think Halo 5 is garbage. I don't think weapon pads are a reason why. Not sorry.

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That's pathetic and shame on whoever's responsible for putting that in.

 

 

Unless you can stay focused in-game, you don't deserve the power weapon. You don't know that it's coming up, or you forgot or just got distracted? Tough shit. No shortcuts, kiddo. But according to you, holding everyone's hand is a lot more "skillful". Hilarious.

 

The flag runner in CTF shouldn't be able to have any offensive capability beyond a simple, normal-damage melee. The flagnum violates that. No one's tripping out about it now because they either forget what life was like before Kevin Franklin shat this stupid thing out of his ass, or they're just dumb.

 

The rest of this is just you repeating yourself for like the fourth time over.

 

You guys deserve the horseshit Halo games you're gonna keep getting from now until whenever you either quit or wake up.

You could just preoccupy the other team as they try to acquire the power weapon, and get it yourself. You know, distract them. The current system forces you to actually out play your opponent, every time. This makes getting powerweapons HARDER. you act like the waypoint instantly puts the weapon in the hands of lesser skilled opponents.

 

Regarding Flagnum, how can you seriously Argue that people forgot about the old halo's? Have you ever been to this site?

 

343 probably added the flagnum, because the low Movement speed when carrying the flag across this sprint-stretched maps would make every CTF game a chore for the majority of players. Do I like that so many changes needed to be made to accommodate shitty SAs? Hell No. But this implementations of flagnum works for THIS game.

 

People are too busy complaining about the things in this game that DONT WORK, to join you complaining about things that work just fine.There are a million legitamate reasons to criticize H5. And you are taking up your Soap Box over this?

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Soooooooooooo this is Hilarious.

 

https://gfycat.com/ZealousOffbeatJunco

What the fuck. Why does this weapon have magnetism? Seriously, its got a giant blast radius. just let people learn the speed and arc and separate themselves instead of holding their hand.

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That's pathetic and shame on whoever's responsible for putting that in.

Why would anybody that is working on Halo 1 NHE value your feedback when you're being unreasonable and closed-minded? If you would of done just a slight bit of research on Halo 1 NHEv7 then you would of realized that the power item announcements for NHE is just a toggle option for anybody that prefers to use it. Most of the time when people LAN Halo 1 NHEv7 they choose to use the “NHE & Timer” toggle option which doesn't have the power item announcements enabled because that's what most players are use to. Please click on this link and inform yourself on Halo 1 NHEv7.

 

The power item announcements aren't detrimental to the competitive merit of Halo 1 because like I said before static timers don't require much mental skill to memorize and keep track of because they are consistent. Most players that LAN Halo 1 memorize the times for the power items. They know that OS and camo spawn every one minute on most maps with a few exceptions and rockets spawn every two minutes on most maps with a few exceptions. The skill aspect comes from contesting your opponent for control of the power items and executing strategies to help your team obtain and win the power item cycle. The power item announcements only really helps newcomers and spectators understand some of Halo 1's nuances at a faster rate. The power item announcements don't lower the skill ceiling, they only lower the skill floor(barrier of entry).
 
If you want to play FPS games that puts more emphasis on using mental skill to memorize and keep track of items then I highly recommend playing arena shooters such as Quake because as far as I know every item in that game is on a dynamic timer. Halo 1 has never been known for putting a huge emphasis on using mental skill to memorize and keep track of item spawns because every item in the game is on a static timer and players for the longest time used external timers until the Halo 1 Final/ NHE team implemented an audio/visual timer into Halo 1 Final/NHE.
 
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If the game didn't tell us when static weapons were coming up, we'd just use talking timers like in Halo 1.

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Pistol either needs a bigger clip, more clips or there needs to be pistols on maps. 

Radar could maybe be shorted to 18m but that won't really do much but allow more sprinting. 

Power weapons could use less ammo (especially rail)

Carbine needs less ammo or needs to be nerfed.

Sniper could use like 1 less magazine I think.

 

All and all these settings are more competitive, more fun to watch and play, and less annoying to play at a high level. I'm pretty happy!

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So feedback on the new settings, this is going on Waypoint as well since that's where the feedback thread is to begin with.

 

Pros:

 

- Emphasis on precision weapons.

- BMS w/ some sprinting in certain situations.

 

Cons:

 

- Radar is too large, at 24m. Should go back down to 18m.

- Can't YY nade anymore off spawn.

- Rifles are really showing just how much stronger they are than the magnum, especially on maps like Truth. 

- Magnum ammo should exist on maps. This is a given.

- Individual strength has been effectively cleaved in half, teamshot is too strong at the moment with little options around that, as seen in pro scrims so far.

 

I'm split on other topics too, like whether we should rotate to the Extended Mag or just spawn with extra mags for the magnum.

 

I feel that if we're going to keep magnum only starts, there needs to be more power-ups on map spawning either more frequently or staggered spawns.

 

Rifles at the moment act like minor power weapons compared to everything else on map/off spawn. I don't think that these weapons should be given for free in certain locations like the LRs on Fathom, the DMRs on Coli, the BRs on Eden, the BRs on Plaza, etc.. While I'm not promoting purely the placement of these weapons exclusively on the 50 yard line like on Truth, they either need to be placed in positions not advantageous to them (move BR on Truth to bottom mid as an extreme example) or heavily, heavily limited in their usage.

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So feedback on the new settings, this is going on Waypoint as well since that's where the feedback thread is to begin with.

 

Pros:

 

- Emphasis on precision weapons.

- BMS w/ some sprinting in certain situations.

 

Cons:

 

- Radar is too large, at 24m. Should go back down to 18m.

- Can't YY nade anymore off spawn.

- Rifles are really showing just how much stronger they are than the magnum, especially on maps like Truth. 

- Magnum ammo should exist on maps. This is a given.

- Individual strength has been effectively cleaved in half, teamshot is too strong at the moment with little options around that, as seen in pro scrims so far.

 

I'm split on other topics too, like whether we should rotate to the Extended Mag or just spawn with extra mags for the magnum.

 

I feel that if we're going to keep magnum only starts, there needs to be more power-ups on map spawning either more frequently or staggered spawns.

 

Rifles at the moment act like minor power weapons compared to everything else on map/off spawn. I don't think that these weapons should be given for free in certain locations like the LRs on Fathom, the DMRs on Coli, the BRs on Eden, the BRs on Plaza, etc.. While I'm not promoting purely the placement of these weapons exclusively on the 50 yard line like on Truth, they either need to be placed in positions not advantageous to them (move BR on Truth to bottom mid as an extreme example) or heavily, heavily limited in their usage.

 

I think most would agree that 15 shots in the magnum clip would be ideal, but given that that isn't an option, I would really like to see extended mag pistol. 1 extra clip would also be an improvement. At the very least, there should be 2-3 pistols on every map placed in transitional areas to make sure players who move around the map always have pistol ammo available (Tbh this should probably go along with either of the other options).

 

On the topic of "free" rifles, I feel like they are often necessary to help prevent snowballing. If I spawn in Blue on Plaza while the other team has full control in a Slayer, my push is going to succeed like 1/10 times without that BR. I think the neutral rifles in power positions are the big problem. It's like leader traits where the leader gets bonus aim assist and range.

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I think most would agree that 15 shots in the magnum clip would be ideal, but given that that isn't an option, I would really like to see extended mag pistol. 1 extra clip would also be an improvement. At the very least, there should be 2-3 pistols on every map placed in transitional areas to make sure players who move around the map always have pistol ammo available (Tbh this should probably go along with either of the other options).

 

On the topic of "free" rifles, I feel like they are often necessary to help prevent snowballing. If I spawn in Blue on Plaza while the other team has full control in a Slayer, my push is going to succeed like 1/10 times without that BR. I think the neutral rifles in power positions are the big problem. It's like leader traits where the leader gets bonus aim assist and range.

I think that the respawn timer on rifles is still to short. Should be more like a minute or a minute and twenty seconds.

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Hey, this is my first post here. I've been a fan of the series since CE, but i've never really got super into the competitive side of things (I'd like to try to start though, hence me registering) due to a few reasons that will become apparent pretty quickly, i'm sure. I have a feeling i'm gonna rustle some feathers, but i'm very open minded, so feel free to explain to me where i'm wrong and why i'm wrong, I just ask that people be polite when doing so and they have an open mind as well.

 

Also, i'm not sure if a lot of the stuff I'm posting about here regarding changing the AR to be skill based or weapon balance disscusion in general belongs in this thread or the Halo 5 general discussion thread, so if somebody could clarify that I would appreciate it.

 

 

Perfect Body shots only kill time.

 

Magnum - 1.8    +.24 for each miss

AR - 1.4    +.095 for each miss

 

 

Perfect Kill Time with Headshots

 

Magnum - 1.2    +.24 for each miss

AR - 1.1    +.095 for each miss

 

I was going to do a bunch more calculations to explain why this is shitty but work got busy so fuck.  

Is there any way to pull the average kill times per weapon out of the API or something?

 

Seems like if we got the AR to have no headshot damage and added 1/10 - 2/10 second to the kill time it would be in a pretty good place for damage output, even if its not mechanically.

Why would you want to remove the headshot bonus on the AR and make it reward skill even less?

 

 

 

  • Increase the rate of bloom so that it's less effective to hold down the trigger outside of very close range
  • Disable headshots past a certain level of bloom (probably after the first 3 bullets in a given "burst")
  • Slight reduction to red reticle range

This means players have to either get closer or burst and aim for headshots to reliably get kills with it at higher levels. At low levels it'll function roughly the same, since the extra few bullets they'll miss by spraying won't change the outcome very often, and headshots with the AR are rare enough at those levels to not be a significant factor.

 

I'm in complete agreement of disabling headshots past a certain level of bloom, as well as reducing bullet magnetism and aim assist, and this is a change i've been advocating for for a while, though I don't think it should be a on/off thing, rather, that it should be gradual: Tie it to spread inversely. The higher your level of spread, the less the damage multiplier would apply (however, I think another change is required for this to be good, which i'll get to later)

 

But I don't get the logic in increasing the spread rate. Wouldn't that merely increase the degree of random-ness the weapon has in most contexts? Wouldn't,instead, lowering the rate at which spread builds force players to be more on target to begin with, as well as make bursts themselves more rewarding for accurate players by concentrating where the bullets are landing? All increasing the rate of spread will do is reduce the gap in reward for bursting and spraying. It's the same reason why bloom didn''t work for the DMR in reach.

 

Likewise (and this is where i'm sure people will start to disagree with me), I'm not sure I agree with the reduction of red reticule range. I actually want the AR to be used more at further ranges.  If the AR is only useful at close range, it ceases to have a reason to exist when the SMG and Storm rifle are in the game (similar to how people are saying the magnum is invalidated by the BR/Carbine/LR/DMR)  I'd much rather the AR have a relatively unique niche of being a versatile, range capable automatic weapon that rewards precision fire.

 

To go along with that, and with making the headshot bonus scale inversely with spread, I would like bodyshot damage to be reduced, but the headshot multiplier to apply even when the target has shields, like how it was in the beta. Make it a highly capable weapon when used in 2-3 round bursts by players who can land headshots with it, but make it moderately to significantly less effective when sprayed and to actively punish players who miss shots at all

 

In summary:

 

- Reduce bullet magnetism and aim assist

- Reduce rate of spread gain

- Make headshot bonus scale inversely with spread (more spread, less of a bonus)

- Make headshot bonus apply on shields

- Reduce bodyshot damage.

 

As far as the other automatics: I don't see why the storm rifle and SMG cannot simply be treated as power weapons. I really don't see how they are significantly different from the shotgun (besides the fact that they give up power for a increase in range, but i'd argue that evens out). If the shotgun is acceptable balance wise despite not taking any skill just by virtue of being a power weapon, I don't see why the SMG and Storm rifle are not, unless you want to argue that they do not give up enough damage potential to justify their relative increase in effective range compared to the shotgun, which is not an assessment I would agree with. I don't know enough about the brute plasma rifle or have enough experience with it it to comment there, so i'm happy to hear people more experienced then me explain to me what the current balance concerns with it are.

 

I also have more radical suggestions for altering how automatic functions but I'll include that/explain them once I get some other stuff below clarified first.

 

The BR being a fraction of a second slower, not faster. The Magnum is a flat 1.2 if my information is correct.

But either way, any utility rifle is just easier to use, more forgiving, sometimes faster TTK (light rifle), easier 2/3 shot beatdown, more range, has more shots per mag and so on than the pistol

What downsides do these weapons have against a magnum that the magnum can exploit? None. So players respawning are now going against a objectively better precision utility weapon. And if that is the case, you are defeating the purpose of having a utility weapon of spawn.

I mean can you imagine coming into an engagemen in Halo CE-3 and your opponent has a Pistol/BR that has more aim assist, magnetism than your utility weapon and he can more easily cross map you? It's ludicrous. It should not be a thing.

The entire point of a Utility weapon (specifically in CE) is to be on par with every weapon on the map in it's ability to be utilitarian. If it is failing to be utilitarian vs the rest of the sandbox, it's not a good utility weapon.

I think the pistol in it's own right is decently designed, skilfull weapon (but then Halo 5's aiming is so wonky, an accurate test isn't likely to happen), but the rest of the sandbox surrounding it is either a better version of it, an op automatic or an overly forgiving power weapon.

Infinity's proposed changes are a band aid solution to a larger problem, the Halo 5 sandbox is not well balanced for an Arena shooter, especially Halo. It had the tiered balancing system of an unlock system, where each tier is better than the last, when an arena shooter needs a matrix, a system where every power weapon fufills a role, and really isn't actually a power weapon, but a pick up. Ideally, the only ACTUAL power weapon should be the Rockets. everything else should be a niche counterpart to the utility weapon.

 

There's some stuff here I don't get or agree with, but, before I make myself look dumb, I want a few things clarified here. Does "utility weapon" refer to any generalist skill based weapon, or does it only refer to one you spawn with?

 

And the entire idea behind a utility weapon, and the core issue at play here, is that If every gun on map is much better then what players start with, then that can lead to games where one team can, at the start of the match, quickly gain map control, and lock down the other team's access to pickups and just curbstomp the entire match because the other team is stuck with sub-par weapons. So, it's important that a player's starting weapons needs to be useful enough across a variety of engagement ranges and situations that, provided the user is skilled enough, they can beat players with pickups, correct?

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There's some stuff here I don't get or agree with, but, before I make myself look dumb, I want a few things clarified here. Does "utility weapon" refer to any generalist skill based weapon, or does it only refer to one you spawn with?

 

And the entire idea behind a utility weapon, and the core issue at play here, is that If every gun on map is much better then what players start with, then that can lead to games where one team can, at the start of the match, quickly gain map control, and lock down the other team's access to pickups and just curbstomp the entire match because the other team is stuck with sub-par weapons. So, it's important that a player's starting weapons needs to be useful enough across a variety of engagement ranges and situations that, provided the user is skilled enough, they can beat players with pickups, correct?

A good utility weapon has a large gap between average and perfect ttk(essentially really difficult to use)can be competitive with most of the sandbox,and you spawn with it..The CE pistol is the perfect example.The halo 2&3 br and the reach dmr are other examples though they didn't do quite as well at fulfilling their role.
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@@MajoraZ

 

I think you are trying to apply precison weapon balancing principles to an automatic weapon. And that's why the comparison to the DMRs bloom falls flat. Bloom made spamming the DMR more effective at close range, which is an undesired characteristic for a weapon with such a high damage per shot. A precison weapon should reward precision, not minimize the need for it.

 

Increasing the spread rate of an automatic decreases its effectiveness at range, because it becomes less accurate, the further the target is. To counter a rapid reduction of accuracy at range, players will have to burst fire- trading rate-of-fire for precison.

 

Yes, increasing spread rate increases an automatics efficiency at close range... but automatics are supposed to be most efficient at close range. That said reducing magnetism and aim assist allows the effective effeciency to be a matter of aim skill. There's nothing wrong with an AR being efficient at close range, but it should be skillful as well. Mind you the AR has a low damage per shot. Rather than rewarding precison, automatic reward prolonged target acquisition.

 

The problem with the headshot modifier on an automatic weapon, is that it potentially leaves the damage modifier up to chance. The only way I'd ever truly except such a thing is if only the first few bullets could trigger it, since they'd be fired with 100% precision.

 

I think the AR and Magnum should be inverses of each other in utility. Ideally: The magnum, due to its precision is most efficient at range, but CAN be lethal a close range with superior control and aim skill. The AR due to its spread is most efficient at close range, but CAN be lethal at range with superior control and aim skill.

 

Honestly, your vision of the AR sounds like a BR variant

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Hey, this is my first post here. I've been a fan of the series since CE, but i've never really got super into the competitive side of things (I'd like to try to start though, hence me registering) due to a few reasons that will become apparent pretty quickly, i'm sure. I have a feeling i'm gonna rustle some feathers, but i'm very open minded, so feel free to explain to me where i'm wrong and why i'm wrong, I just ask that people be polite when doing so and they have an open mind as well.

 

Also, i'm not sure if a lot of the stuff I'm posting about here regarding changing the AR to be skill based or weapon balance disscusion in general belongs in this thread or the Halo 5 general discussion thread, so if somebody could clarify that I would appreciate it.

 

 

Why would you want to remove the headshot bonus on the AR and make it reward skill even less?

 

 

The best way to reward skill would really be to have a headshot bonus on only the 100% accurate bullets which would be the first 2 or 3 of a burst (Credit to Bunniez for this idea).  That way if someone is just spraying even after shields pop they have to wait for the base damage to do the killing.  If they are disciplined and stop firing, let the bloom reset then hit you in the head for a quicker kill that is fine.  Good even.  The problem with automatics now is that the random spread has the possibility, and often does, of rewarding the ARing player with bonus headshot damage if they are aiming at your nuts.  its RNG = win which is not good.

In order for this to work assuming the kill time of the Magnum doesn't change it would have to look something like this:

 

AR body shots only perfect TTK: 1.5

AR w/ headshot perfect TTK: 1.3

 

Obviously those numbers could be tweaked a bit upon testing but imo something that is non-negotiable is that the ARs ideal perfect kill time must be longer than the magnums perfect kill time.  The magnum is a weapon that forces you to be precise with every bullet and each bullet you miss extends the potential TTK by more than double compared to each missed bullet with the AR.  (The AR fires a bullet every .95 seconds, the Magnum every .2).

 

People seem to have this rock/paper/scissors mentality about balance which is really shallow and kind of misses the point, especially in a game with longer average TTKs like Halo.  Just because the AR is a close-range weapon, doesn't mean that it should automatically win in close range.  The advantage it has in close range doesn't come from its damage output, it comes from the fact that its a little easier to use and a little more forgiving if you miss.  If a player using a magnum, which is a harder weapon to use especially up close, is still able to maintain their accuracy and hit all their shots they should be rewarded for that extra display of skill. 

 

 

@@MajoraZ

 

I think you are trying to apply precison weapon balancing principles to an automatic weapon. And that's why the comparison to the DMRs bloom falls flat. Bloom made spamming the DMR more effective at close range, which is an undesired characteristic for a weapon with such a high damage per shot. A precison weapon should reward precision, not minimize the need for it.

 

Increasing the spread rate of an automatic decreases its effectiveness at range, because it becomes less accurate, the further the target is. To counter a rapid reduction of accuracy at range, players will have to burst fire- trading rate-of-fire for precison.

 

Yes, increasing spread rate increases an automatics efficiency at close range... but automatics are supposed to be most efficient at close range. That said reducing magnetism and aim assist allows the effective effeciency to be a matter of aim skill. There's nothing wrong with an AR being efficient at close range, but it should be skillful as well. Mind you the AR has a low damage per shot. Rather than rewarding precison, automatic reward prolonged target acquisition.

 

The problem with the headshot modifier on an automatic weapon, is that it potentially leaves the damage modifier up to chance. The only way I'd ever truly except such a thing is if only the first few bullets could trigger it, since they'd be fired with 100% precision.

 

I think the AR and Magnum should be inverses of each other in utility. Ideally: The magnum, due to its precision is most efficient at range, but CAN be lethal a close range with superior control and aim skill. The AR due to its spread is most efficient at close range, but CAN be lethal at range with superior control and aim skill.

 

Honestly, your vision of the AR sounds like a BR variant

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@@MajoraZ

The problem with the headshot modifier on an automatic weapon, is that it potentially leaves the damage modifier up to chance. The only way I'd ever truly except such a thing is if only the first few bullets could trigger it, since they'd be fired with 100% precision.

 

 

The best way to reward skill would really be to have a headshot bonus on only the 100% accurate bullets which would be the first 2 or 3 of a burst (Credit to Bunniez for this idea).  That way if someone is just spraying even after shields pop they have to wait for the base damage to do the killing.  If they are disciplined and stop firing, let the bloom reset then hit you in the head for a quicker kill that is fine. 

 

Well, as I said, i'm perfectly fine with the headshot bonus only applying for the first few shots in a burst, that's why I suggested having the bonus multiplier scale inversely with spread level, so there's no disagreement here.

 

 

@@MajoraZ

 

I think you are trying to apply precison weapon balancing principles to an automatic weapon. And that's why the comparison to the DMRs bloom falls flat. Bloom made spamming the DMR more effective at close range, which is an undesired characteristic for a weapon with such a high damage per shot. A precison weapon should reward precision, not minimize the need for it.

 

Increasing the spread rate of an automatic decreases its effectiveness at range, because it becomes less accurate, the further the target is. To counter a rapid reduction of accuracy at range, players will have to burst fire- trading rate-of-fire for precison.

 

Yes, increasing spread rate increases an automatics efficiency at close range... but automatics are supposed to be most efficient at close range. That said reducing magnetism and aim assist allows the effective effeciency to be a matter of aim skill. There's nothing wrong with an AR being efficient at close range, but it should be skillful as well. Mind you the AR has a low damage per shot. Rather than rewarding precison, automatic reward prolonged target acquisition.

 

[snip]

 

I think the AR and Magnum should be inverses of each other in utility. Ideally: The magnum, due to its precision is most efficient at range, but CAN be lethal a close range with superior control and aim skill. The AR due to its spread is most efficient at close range, but CAN be lethal at range with superior control and aim skill.

 

Honestly, your vision of the AR sounds like a BR variant

 

Well, part of the goal of my proposal actually was to increase the AR's utility at a distance, rather then to reduce it. Based on what i've read in this thread and by a few of your member's posts on /r/Halo, you guys really want every weapon to have a unique role and niche, right? If the AR is only good at close range, then it's just a worse version of the SMG and Storm rifle, and I know that you all feel having the BR/Carbine etc just being a better version of the Magnum is bad, so I feel the same principal aside.

 

Furthermore, I know you all feel that range based rock-paper-sisccors weapon differentiation/balance is bad, and what i'm proposing here isn't just making it a longer range SMG, nor is it really making it like the BR as you imply: it's entirely changing the way the weapon is used and what role it's in to be something unique and something Halo hasn't had before. It'd be an automatic weapon that acts like a precision one, a bit like how other FPS titles where precision skill based automatics are the norm. So me balancing it not like an close range automatic weapon is sort of the point: The SMG and Storm rifle already exist, we don't need another one of those. This is intended to be a unique hybrid of both an close range automatic and versatile precision weapon with traits of both, one that acts as it's own utility weapon alongside the magnum

 

On that note  I agree that with your point that the AR should be the inverse of the magnum, and what i'm proposing by extending it's range a bit and giving it more of a skillgap is meant to facilitate that. I think part of the disconnect is how you define "close range".  From what I saw of Halo 5 HCS gameplay, even though even currently the AR, in theory, is more accurate then the SMG and Storm rifle, the moment you hit a distance where the AR would be more effective then either of them, the pistol is a better option then all 3, so players would switch to the magnum and use that instead at any distance even somewhat past close range. So this is sort of intended to mitigate that a bit, and "equalize" their usage, without just making them range counterparts.

 

 

AR body shots only perfect TTK: 1.5

AR w/ headshot perfect TTK: 1.3

 

Obviously those numbers could be tweaked a bit upon testing but imo something that is non-negotiable is that the ARs ideal perfect kill time must be longer than the magnums perfect kill time.  The magnum is a weapon that forces you to be precise with every bullet and each bullet you miss extends the potential TTK by more than double compared to each missed bullet with the AR.  (The AR fires a bullet every .95 seconds, the Magnum every .2).

 

People seem to have this rock/paper/scissors mentality about balance which is really shallow and kind of misses the point, especially in a game with longer average TTKs like Halo.  Just because the AR is a close-range weapon, doesn't mean that it should automatically win in close range.  The advantage it has in close range doesn't come from its damage output, it comes from the fact that its a little easier to use and a little more forgiving if you miss.  If a player using a magnum, which is a harder weapon to use especially up close, is still able to maintain their accuracy and hit all their shots they should be rewarded for that extra display of skill. 

 

I'm not sure I agree about your point regarding killtimes. Remember that part of my suggestion is to reduce bodyshot damage and make the headshot bonus apply even on shields (while making the bonus itself NOT apply when spraying, either via a gradual falloff tied to spread or it not working at all past 3 rounds in a burst ).

 

I may be wrong here, but I imagine that landing every shot with an AR in a combat situation to the head of an enemy with no bodyshots or misses would actually take more skill (given the changes I propose, which includes a reduction of bullet magnetism and aim assist) then a perfect kill with the magnum. I imagine even as the AR is now, if you go into a slayer match and attempt to land every shot of your AR as a headshot to an enemy, that you'll find it's as or more challenging then landing headshots with the magnum, even if you are using short bursts (and remember, if you are using bursts, you are lowering your DPS due to pauses in firing which only further makes it more likely that you'll get killed first).

 

Also, part of your explanation here is assuming missed shots with the AR, but the entire disscusion is about ideal, perfect kills, so in that situation, there wouldn't be any missed shots to begin with? To be honest, I don't think anybody *could* land every AR shot to the head with no misses in a real match, that seems ludicrously difficult to pull off unless you are pacing your bursts so much you'd die before you could even drop their shields.

 

 

 

People seem to have this rock/paper/scissors mentality about balance which is really shallow and kind of misses the point, especially in a game with longer average TTKs like Halo.  Just because the AR is a close-range weapon, doesn't mean that it should automatically win in close range.  The advantage it has in close range doesn't come from its damage output, it comes from the fact that its a little easier to use and a little more forgiving if you miss.  If a player using a magnum, which is a harder weapon to use especially up close, is still able to maintain their accuracy and hit all their shots they should be rewarded for that extra display of skill. 

 

I'm not sure I entirely agree or get you guys's deal against range based balance/differentiation ("rock paper sissors), but that's really a discussion for another time. In any case I get what you mean. And by the same token, given my changes or other changes to the AR to make it reward skill more, i'd want a player to be rewarded if they can manage to land accurate headshots with it in bursts at longer distances, the same way you guys want the pistol to be rewarded if they can land headshots in close ranges with it.

 

================================================

 

Anyways, so, generally speaking, does weapon balance disscusion go in this thread or the Halo 5 general thread? Should I quote my post over there as well?

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dan

Well, part of the goal of my proposal actually was to increase the AR's utility at a distance, rather then to reduce it. Based on what i've read in this thread and by a few of your member's posts on /r/Halo, you guys really want every weapon to have a unique role and niche, right? If the AR is only good at close range, then it's just a worse version of the SMG and Storm rifle, and I know that you all feel having the BR/Carbine etc just being a better version of the Magnum is bad, so I feel the same principal aside.

 

The AR is an automatic. Spread is a defining characteristic of this weapons class. If it's going to have utility at range, it should be because the player OVERCAME that characteristic with skill, not because the dev gave the weapon precison weapon characteristics (long RR, tight spread)

 

It already has a niche, it doesn't need to be stuffed into the precision niche.

 

The ARs Imbalances amongst other Autos is a completely seperate issue. The SMG is completely redundant and shouldn't exist. And the Storm Rifle should have slower projectiles, and shouldn't do so much health damage.

 

Furthermore, I know you all feel that range based rock-paper-sisccors weapon differentiation/balance is bad, and what i'm proposing here isn't just making it a longer range SMG, nor is it really making it like the BR as you imply: it's entirely changing the way the weapon is used and what role it's in to be something unique and something Halo hasn't had before. It'd be an automatic weapon that acts like a precision one, a bit like how other FPS titles where precision skill based automatics are the norm. So me balancing it not like an close range automatic weapon is sort of the point: The SMG and Storm rifle already exist, we don't need another one of those. This is intended to be a unique hybrid of both an close range automatic and versatile precision weapon with traits of both, one that acts as it's own utility weapon alongside the magnum

The Sential Beam already behaves like an automatic that rewards precison. I'm not sure we need another one, and i don't really think we need another precison weapon as a starting weapon.

 

PS why isn't the Sentinal beam being used?

 

On that note I agree that with your point that the AR should be the inverse of the magnum, and what i'm proposing by extending it's range a bit and giving it more of a skillgap is meant to facilitate that. I think part of the disconnect is how you define "close range". From what I saw of Halo 5 HCS gameplay, even though even currently the AR, in theory, is more accurate then the SMG and Storm rifle, the moment you hit a distance where the AR would be more effective then either of them, the pistol is a better option then all 3, so players would switch to the magnum and use that instead at any distance even somewhat past close range. So this is sort of intended to mitigate that a bit, and "equalize" their usage, without just making them range counterparts.

 

I think you are just highlighting the serious problems that exist with the Storm rifle and SMG that would really be better addressed by fixing/removing those weapons, not fundamentally altering the ARs place in the sandbox.

 

I'm not sure I agree about your point regarding killtimes. Remember that part of my suggestion is to reduce bodyshot damage and make the headshot bonus apply even on shields (while making the bonus itself NOT apply when spraying, either via a gradual falloff tied to spread or it not working at all past 3 rounds in a burst ).

 

I may be wrong here, but I imagine that landing every shot with an AR in a combat situation to the head of an enemy with no bodyshots or misses would actually take more skill (given the changes I propose, which includes a reduction of bullet magnetism and aim assist) then a perfect kill with the magnum. I imagine even as the AR is now, if you go into a slayer match and attempt to land every shot of your AR as a headshot to an enemy, that you'll find it's as or more challenging then landing headshots with the magnum, even if you are using short bursts (and remember, if you are using bursts, you are lowering your DPS due to pauses in firing which only further makes it more likely that you'll get killed first).

 

Also, part of your explanation here is assuming missed shots with the AR, but the entire disscusion is about ideal, perfect kills, so in that situation, there wouldn't be any missed shots to begin with? To be honest, I don't think anybody *could* land every AR shot to the head with no misses in a real match, that seems ludicrously difficult to pull off unless you are pacing your bursts so much you'd die before you could even drop their shields.

 

I'm not sure I entirely agree or get you guys's deal against range based balance/differentiation ("rock paper sissors), but that's really a discussion for another time. In any case I get what you mean. And by the same token, given my changes or other changes to the AR to make it reward skill more, i'd want a player to be rewarded if they can manage to land accurate headshots with it in bursts at longer distances, the same way you guys want the pistol to be rewarded if they can land headshots in close ranges with it.

 

================================================

 

Anyways, so, generally speaking, does weapon balance disscusion go in this thread or the Halo 5 general thread? Should I quote my post over there as well?

when it comes to Rock Paper Scissors, people are against the idea of a 1v1 being decided primarily by who had the more efficient weapon for the situation.

 

Currently, a pistol player CANT outplay an AR user up close because the AR is not only easier at close range, but it has a lower TTK. There's no room for skill to prevail. The AR always beats the magnum, like rock beats scissors.

 

Even if someweapons have ideal use cases, we want the more skillful weapon to have be able to overcome.

 

Every weapon should be unique, and ONE way to differentiate them is via their efficiency at certain ranges. That said, a well balanced starting weapon should be harder yet more powerful than other weapons in its class AND usable OUTSIDE of its ideal scenarios - IF the player has the skill to make it happen.

 

Increasing the ARs spread rate, limiting headshot multiplier to the first shots in a burst, reducing its aim assist and magnetism would achieve this for the AR

 

Also, yes this is the right thread ;)

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@@Mhunterjr already expressed exactly what my responses were going to be so i wont rehash that here.

 

@@MajoraZ i just want to leave this hear as evidence that the AR does not need to be rangier.

sE83FW9.gif

 

I actually missed a fair bit of shots there and really got the kill with the last 2 peeks.  No RR at that range and yes i was pulsing the trigger, but should have only been able to hit one maybe 2 bullets per burst but i was hitting 3 and 4.  If you watch the firing you can see that i get multiple hit markers when the target was really only in the middle of the reticle for maybe 1 bullet.  Even outside RRR there was magnetism on those bullets which is asinine.

 

Edit: and yes this is the right place thanks for stopping by!

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@@Mhunterjr already expressed exactly what my responses were going to be so i wont rehash that here.

 

@@MajoraZ i just want to leave this hear as evidence that the AR does not need to be rangier.

sE83FW9.gif

 

I actually missed a fair bit of shots there and really got the kill with the last 2 peeks. No RR at that range and yes i was pulsing the trigger, but should have only been able to hit one maybe 2 bullets per burst but i was hitting 3 and 4. If you watch the firing you can see that i get multiple hit markers when the target was really only in the middle of the reticle for maybe 1 bullet. Even outside RRR there was magnetism on those bullets which is asinine.

 

Edit: and yes this is the right place thanks for stopping by!

That is actually a pretty cool kill.

 

But the main issue with that was the extremely high magnetism, which is a problem with the entire H5 sandbox, including the Magnum.

 

I would advocate for the AR having zero spread/bloom and be 100% perfectly accurate if it is going to cement itself as a high range automatic.

 

That is of course, with significantly reduced magnetism to go with it.

 

Leave the SMG for spraying and praying.

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That is actually a pretty cool kill.

 

But the main issue with that was the extremely high magnetism, which is a problem with the entire H5 sandbox, including the Magnum.

 

I would advocate for the AR having zero spread/bloom and be 100% perfectly accurate if it is going to cement itself as a high range automatic.

 

That is of course, with significantly reduced magnetism to go with it.

 

Leave the SMG for spraying and praying.

No weapon should be for spraying and praying imo.

And no automatic should have high range like that.  we already have the DMR, LR, BR and Sniper for that.

Spread is also an inherent trait of the Automatic's class.  If you remove that it becomes a precision weapon, and we dont need more of those.

Automatics shouldn't have scope at all.  And if they insist in giving them scope it should only be for zoom, not for a spread buff.

The questions that really need to be answered are:

1) how much spread

2) how quickly does it reach max

3) random or not random?

4) headshot bonus

 

I would say, keep the spread the same (maybe a slight increase) but make it hit max much faster

Remove headshot bonuses except for the first 2 rounds of a burst (burst = trigger pull after spread has reset to 0)

NO scoped spread reduction.

less magnetism

 

I actually think the level of aim assist is fine, but the bullets shouldn't bend toward the target.

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No weapon should be for spraying and praying imo.

And no automatic should have high range like that. we already have the DMR, LR, BR and Sniper for that.

Spread is also an inherent trait of the Automatic's class. If you remove that it becomes a precision weapon, and we dont need more of those.

Automatics shouldn't have scope at all. And if they insist in giving them scope it should only be for zoom, not for a spread buff.

The questions that really need to be answered are:

1) how much spread

2) how quickly does it reach max

3) random or not random?

4) headshot bonus

 

I would say, keep the spread the same (maybe a slight increase) but make it hit max much faster

Remove headshot bonuses except for the first 2 rounds of a burst (burst = trigger pull after spread has reset to 0)

NO scoped spread reduction.

less magnetism

 

I actually think the level of aim assist is fine, but the bullets shouldn't bend toward the target.

I can agree with this.

 

How exactly does magnetism work currently on the AR? Is it that if the target is within the reticle all bullets will hit the target?

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No weapon should be for spraying and praying imo.

And no automatic should have high range like that. we already have the DMR, LR, BR and Sniper for that.

Spread is also an inherent trait of the Automatic's class. If you remove that it becomes a precision weapon, and we dont need more of those.

Automatics shouldn't have scope at all. And if they insist in giving them scope it should only be for zoom, not for a spread buff.

The questions that really need to be answered are:

1) how much spread

2) how quickly does it reach max

3) random or not random?

4) headshot bonus

 

I would say, keep the spread the same (maybe a slight increase) but make it hit max much faster

Remove headshot bonuses except for the first 2 rounds of a burst (burst = trigger pull after spread has reset to 0)

NO scoped spread reduction.

less magnetism

 

I actually think the level of aim assist is fine, but the bullets shouldn't bend toward the target.

I dunno about having first two shots do bonus damage and no other shots.

 

That is a wierd and unintuitive system. Better off just having no multiplier.

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I dunno about having first two shots do bonus damage and no other shots.

 

That is a wierd and unintuitive system. Better off just having no multiplier.

Unintuitive, maybe, but not weird. The extra damage for burst shots would allow for skill to trump spraying at close range.

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Headshot bonus exclusivity for the first couple bullets in an ARs clip is a solid fix.

 

Skill based at the higher levels of play, a non-factor at lower levels. I think it'd be a good idea.

 

I still think just a flat damage/bloom/aim assist nerf would also be fine.

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