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Halo 5: Guardians Arena Gameplay Settings Thread

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Beta Magnum had a 0.8 second perfect kill time. Or was it 0.933? I forget, but it was fucking fast.

The beta Magnum was also a 5sk though. I am sure that you know that and this, but to others the Gunfighter has the same fire rate as the Beta Magnum, BUT is a nerfed 6sk.

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I think we're on the same page.

 

What I'd really like to see is the Recon DMR just be the utility weapon in Halo going forward. It's got the right look, right zoom range, it's single shot, and its a rifle so it's more likely to be taken seriously as the main weapon in the game than a pistol is. I'd reduce the magnetism on it for sure, make it a 4sk, reduce its RoF a bit, and most importantly, make it projectile.

 

-After that, I'd get rid of the regular DMR entirely, as it's just redundant.

 

-Then I'd let the Light Rifle zoom in a bit further but otherwise leave it unchanged. It's a great addition to the sandbox and fills a unique role.

 

-I might keep the BR, but it would have some serious changes. I'd try to make it that mid-close beast, but make it a lot harder to control. It would have significant recoil with each successive bullet in the burst, with a perfectly straight vertical spread. It would also be projectile. But to balance out the new difficulty of use (particularly at range), I'd make it hit pretty hard. 4sk with a faster RoF and faster perfect kill time than the DMR. Give this weapon some character and make it feel, perform, and excel differently than the DMR.

 

-So now this new BR role steps on the toes of the Carbine. As I've said before in other posts on this matter, I think the Carbine has always been redundant and lacked a unique purpose. It's always been an also-ran that no one really goes out of their way for. I think we should make this weapon a niche weapon. Keep everything about it the same, except make it take several more shots to kill, like an 11 shot, but allow each shot hit to do corrosive, lingering damage over time to a player, with each shot "burning" for maybe .25 seconds. So lets say I see a guy I can't finish. If I can land 5 Carbine shots, I can keep his shields receiving damage for over a full second after I've stopped hitting him, plus the time it takes for the shield to recharge normally. This keeps him out of the fight and unable to watch his lane much longer than any other type of damage you can deal to him. He also wouldn't be able to zoom in. Currently no weapon performs this role, and I think it would be extremely valuable for pushing "dug in" enemies and breaking setups.

 

-Lastly, the pistol. Since it's been replaced with the Recon DMR as our utility weapon, I think we need to find a different role for it. I really think 343 is on to something with the Gunfighter Magnum. That should be our pistol. Give it a super quick swap time, super quick rate of fire, make it like a 6 shot kill (2 perfect kills to a clip), and give it a little faster killtime than the AR and the DMR, just quite a bit tougher to use. It should be the preferred secondary for someone with really good aim. Don't give it a scope.

 

The whole goal with this precision weapon sandbox is to give each weapon a unique role, and a specific reason to want to pick it up. In our current sandbox, the BR, DMR and Carbine are all more or less interchangeable, and that seems like wasted potential to me.

 

@@Deez, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

Reskinning the H5 Magnum to a DMR and giving it a 12 mag, 4sk, slower rof is something I can get behind.

 

Gunfighter magnum being the sidearm? Lovely.

 

But as for giving the BR a different role? While im not opposed to it, I personally Think we should have one real utility weapon in the competive game. Trying to make the Carbine, BR etc unique weapons is a losing battle. They ultimately are precision utility role weapons. Take a gears 3 approach, and allow players to choose which one they want for social settings, and have ranked remove the option. People who love the BR can spawn with the BR if they want in social, instead of fighting the fact these weapons are basically clones, embrace it. Let players have the choice for social. Make them complete clones of one another in everything but Rof/shots to kill and be done with it. Let weapons with actually unique functionality be the map pick ups.

 

We should stop trying to force the automatics and precision clone weapons into the weapon matrix, they will never be truly unique and they were never supposed to be. The map pick ups should intresting stuff like the grenade launcher, brute shot, sentinel beam etc. Weapons that are ACTUALLY different, not superfically different.

 

Let clones be clones, let social player choose which clone they want to use, and start working on making and balancing ACTUAL unique weapons

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Reskinning the H5 Magnum to a DMR and giving it a 12 mag, 4sk, slower rof is something I can get behind.

 

Gunfighter magnum being the sidearm? Lovely.

 

But as for giving the BR a different role? While im not opposed to it, I personally Think we should have one real utility weapon in the competive game. Trying to make the Carbine, BR etc unique weapons is a losing battle. They ultimately are precision utility role weapons. Take a gears 3 approach, and allow players to choose which one they want for social settings, and have ranked remove the option. People who love the BR can spawn with the BR if they want in social, instead of fighting the fact these weapons are basically clones, embrace it. Let players have the choice for social. Make them complete clones of one another in everything but Rof/shots to kill and be done with it. Let weapons with actually unique functionality be the map pick ups.

 

We should stop trying to force the automatics and precision clone weapons into the weapon matrix, they will never be truly unique and they were never supposed to be. The map pick ups should intresting stuff like the grenade launcher, brute shot, sentinel beam etc. Weapons that are ACTUALLY different, not superfically different.

 

Let clones be clones, let social player choose which clone they want to use, and start working on making and balancing ACTUAL unique weapons

I'd take it even one step further, get rid of redundant precision weapons for H6 (I don't see H5 changing a bit tbh so I'll just talk about the next game)!

Have one precision utility starting weapon (~4sk/0.8-1.0 sec TTK, single shot, projectile) and give players the option to decide which skin you want to run with. By skin i don't mean simple paint jobs like in H5 but the entire model (HCE/H3 Pistol, H2 Pistol, H5 Pistol, BR, DMR, EU/book stuff) so a little bit like armors, every armor looks diffrent but offers the same amount of protection.

Same for the full auto support weapon, one balancing but ARs ,Reach AR, SMGs, EU stuff as skins!

 

Then have one unique map pick-up per "calss": a HCE PR-style full auto support weapon (stun, high shield damage/low health damage), the CC could be some sort of bridge between full auto and semi auto (rather low damage per round, high ROF but semi auto)

As the precision map pick-up I could picture a mix between sniper and Railgun (chargeable, one-hit kill if fully charged and headshot, damage output depending on state of charging [maybe 5-6 sk if used not charged at all] maybe a slight "flinch-effect" when for charged projectiles)

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Personally, I think we should move towards removing BRs, H2BRs, DMRs and possibly Carbines from maps across the board.

 

All these weapons add nothing to the sandbox but functional upgrades that make 1v1 Precision weapon duels inconsistent partially imbalanced. 25% to 50% of a maps pick ups should NOT be easier to use, longer RRR precision weapons.

 

The Light Rifle offers a low tier sniper role weapon, and I feel has a place in the H5 sandbox besides an easier to use precision weapon.

 

We should move towards having as much diversity in map pick ups as possible. Less funtional upgrades, more unique pick ups. Why do we have maps where 25% to 50% of the pick ups are just a better precision weapon or better automatic? I think this REALLY needs to change

 

I disagree.  There is nothing wrong with having some straight upgrades to your spawn weapons in locations that encourage movement around the map.  The problem right now is 3 fold as I see it:

 

1) There are TOO MANY of those.  On that point i totally agree.  Some variety would be nice.  Having SMGs and storms and brs and lightrifles on a map is ridiculous.  Even a weapon like the Brute plasma just has the same damage-dealing pattern as all the other guns.  It should melt shields in only a couple shots, but then do next to no health damage (like plasma's used to) forcing users to switch to their precision weapon to finish the kill... but it just doesn't.  

2) Many of these are placed in power-positions to begin with (ie BR and Carbine on Truth).  Weapons should be placed where there is a little more risk required to take them, but not so much that its not worth the possible reward

3) The weapons spawn way too fast once picked up.  15 seconds is waaaaaay too fast, so even if the number of spawn spots are limited, the number that could be in play at a time could be rather high.  I would like to see this extended to 45 or 60 seconds.

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I disagree. There is nothing wrong with having some straight upgrades to your spawn weapons in locations that encourage movement around the map. The problem right now is 3 fold as I see it:

 

1) There are TOO MANY of those. On that point i totally agree. Some variety would be nice. Having SMGs and storms and brs and lightrifles on a map is ridiculous. Even a weapon like the Brute plasma just has the same damage-dealing pattern as all the other guns. It should melt shields in only a couple shots, but then do next to no health damage (like plasma's used to) forcing users to switch to their precision weapon to finish the kill... but it just doesn't.

2) Many of these are placed in power-positions to begin with (ie BR and Carbine on Truth). Weapons should be placed where there is a little more risk required to take them, but not so much that its not worth the possible reward

3) The weapons spawn way too fast once picked up. 15 seconds is waaaaaay too fast, so even if the number of spawn spots are limited, the number that could be in play at a time could be rather high. I would like to see this extended to 45 or 60 seconds.

There is something wrong with it. You have two weapons doing the same job, but with one being overall better, and easier to use. That means you are having engagements with people who have magnum role weapon that has any number of the following traits:

 

More aim assist

More magnetism

More kills per magazine

More forgiving mechanics

Faster killtime

 

They have the EXACT same role, so they are used the same way, but they are easier to use, can outrange the magnum and even kill faster in some cases. the magnum wielder is now having to fight a player whose weapon is more a much forgiving precision utility weapon than the one they spawned with. It defeats the purpose of the "equal starts" mantra of arena shooters, especially Halo, that purpose not only to ensure an equal start, but to ensure consistent engagements with weapons equal to one another, ie CE Magnum vs CE Magnum or BR vs BR.

 

The moment you include functional upgrades, you break that very important consistency that ensures everyone is equal, it doesnt matter if they are pick ups or loadouts, it still breaks it, you are having fights with people whose utility role weapon is fundementally better than yours, that is an imbalance.

 

The movement incentives these weapons bring can be accomplished with actually uniquely designed weapons that fufil specific niche roles, and they do it without the inherent imbalances I just outlined

 

The light rifle I excluded because it is the most unique of the five utility upgrades, and is more like a low tier sniper weapon when zoomed

 

This logic applies to automatics as well

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The beta Magnum was also a 5sk though. I am sure that you know that and this, but to others the Gunfighter has the same fire rate as the Beta Magnum, BUT is a nerfed 6sk.

 

I didn't know it was moved to a 6sk. I've picked it up maybe thrice since I haven't unlocked it yet for warzone. I actually thought it was a really cool pistol to use from the brief time I had it in my hands. Something about the feedback of the weapon made it feel like I was firing a magnum calibur weapon vs an air soft gun like the default pistol. As soon as they introduced it the first thing I thought was "why wasn't this the default pistol". Again, I haven't used it enough, but with a little tweaking it seems like it would be a pretty solid starting weapon with limited rifles on the map.

 

I'm also a huge fan of the Recon DMR as a starting weapon, and very few power weapons/power ups on most maps. It's really too bad we don't have a middle weapon between the storm rifle and brute plasma rifle. Maybe that is where the sentinel beam can find a home? Something that does ok damage across the board but supports constant fire.

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Something that does ok damage across the board but supports constant fire.

You know, with this in mind, I have actually thought that the spawning AR could be reworked to serve a role similar to this.

 

Buff the Mag size and increase its zoom, but give it zero spread/bloom and minimal recoil.

 

Then perhaps nerf its damage and most especially magnetism.

 

BAM, the AR is now more akin to the Lancer from Gears of War, the XO16 Chaingun from Titanfall 1, and from what I have heard the machine gun from Quake.

 

As a spawning weapon that 343I wants the AR to be, a more unique 'utility auto' that doesn't try to compete with the killtime of the precision utility weapon, would serve a better role in the sandbox.

 

Then you can just let the SMG serve as the only CQC bullet hose auto.

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The moment you include functional upgrades, you break that very important consistency that ensures everyone is equal, it doesn't matter if they are pick ups or loadouts, it still breaks it, you are having fights with people whose utility role weapon is fundamentally better than yours, that is an imbalance.

 

This logic is really too simplistic. There's basically no such thing as a perfectly even 1v1 scenario in a real match. It only exists in any meaningful capacity in the imaginary space we use to make direct comparisons between the weapons.

 

The whole "having fights" bit isn't the issue at all because it's just plain stupid and/or desperate to challenge an opponent whose skill you can respect without ensuring some kind of advantage beforehand.

I'd posit that the much bigger, and less talked about, issue is the range extensions that the rifle pickups have over the Magnum. They need to be placed more thoughtfully because of their capability to be used as zoning tools at distinct ranges rather than any minor advantage they might give in a straight up combat scenario.

 

There's nothing wrong with the rifles in the game as they stand, but rather how they're presented to players. Each rifle's specific traits suit it well for a specific engagement range, yet they're typically placed in areas that instead suggest they're just a more powerful weapon to pick up.

Ideally we'd see rifles placed in such a way as to help fill the gap between the Magnum and Sniper Rifle without making either irrelevant in their own ideal range. Which rifle fills that role best depends on the lines of sight, angles, and distance between cover on each map relative to their respective damage per shot, RRR, scope magnification, and RoF.

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This logic is really too simplistic. There's basically no such thing as a perfectly even 1v1 scenario in a real match. It only exists in any meaningful capacity in the imaginary space we use to make direct comparisons between the weapons.

 

The whole "having fights" bit isn't the issue at all because it's just plain stupid and/or desperate to challenge an opponent whose skill you can respect without ensuring some kind of advantage beforehand.

I'd posit that the much bigger, and less talked about, issue is the range extensions that the rifle pickups have over the Magnum. They need to be placed more thoughtfully because of their capability to be used as zoning tools at distinct ranges rather than any minor advantage they might give in a straight up combat scenario.

This is why I'm confused by those who want Carbines removed especially. Any advantage in a straight up 1v1 a Carbine has over a pistol is exaggerated at best, maybe even fabricated. And if that's true then it simply provides a situational advantage. Similarly, if the BR had lower magnetism or a shorter RRR it would be less of a straight upgrade and would instead buff your ability to clean people up at the cost of slower weapon switching. The only one I really have a problem with conceptually is the DMR and only because its buffs make it a clear better choice unless it's paired with another weapon. You'd have to do more than just tweak some numbers to make that an interesting choice for players, imo.

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This logic is really too simplistic. There's basically no such thing as a perfectly even 1v1 scenario in a real match. It only exists in any meaningful capacity in the imaginary space we use to make direct comparisons between the weapons.

 

The whole "having fights" bit isn't the issue at all because it's just plain stupid and/or desperate to challenge an opponent whose skill you can respect without ensuring some kind of advantage beforehand.

I'd posit that the much bigger, and less talked about, issue is the range extensions that the rifle pickups have over the Magnum. They need to be placed more thoughtfully because of their capability to be used as zoning tools at distinct ranges rather than any minor advantage they might give in a straight up combat scenario.

 

There's nothing wrong with the rifles in the game as they stand, but rather how they're presented to players. Each rifle's specific traits suit it well for a specific engagement range, yet they're typically placed in areas that instead suggest they're just a more powerful weapon to pick up.

Ideally we'd see rifles placed in such a way as to help fill the gap between the Magnum and Sniper Rifle without making either irrelevant in their own ideal range. Which rifle fills that role best depends on the lines of sight, angles, and distance between cover on each map relative to their respective damage per shot, RRR, scope magnification, and RoF.

They are still fundamentally just a more forgiving precision weapon, and that is an inconsistency that should be mitigated, if not removed.

 

The Light Rifle is the only one that offers a REAL potential for a Niche sniper role low tier weapon, the rest are just easy to use upgrades, slower switch speed or other superficial "trade offs" for ease of use are not enough to make these weapons distinctive. They are fundamentally just precision utility weapons designed to be slightly better in some regard.

 

And that is shitty and lazy sandbox design, especially in arena shooters.

 

Map pick ups in an Arena shooter should not be functional upgrades, it kills variety, and leads to imbalanced engagements, not specifically 1v1s, using a 1v1 example is just using the most simple scenario as example to quickly explain it.

 

We are talking about weapons that can land shots in situations where a Magnum would simply miss, players can win or lose an engagement due on the magnetism values of a their currently held precision weapon, no matter how small that influence may be, the influence should not exist.

 

The death in these situations is not because they used a weapon effectively for it's purpose, it's because they have a weapon that has the same core purpose of the magnum that allows them to potentially land shots they would otherwise miss with the magnum.

 

And these situations just should not exist. If you want to have a weapon that bridges the gap of medium range to sniper range, design a weapon that provides that niche upgrade alone, not one that provides that upgrade ALONGSIDE giving you an easier to use precision weapon. The weapon providing that niche should be the counterpart to the utility weapon, not the replacement.

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Snip

 

If the map pickups in this game were a little more difficult to use, we wouldnt be having this discussion because the differences would be more apparent. Lets not confuse this. I agree more variety in the tier 1 weapon types would be good, but youre overstating the extent of the problem and throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Youre basically arguing that the LR is the only tier 1 pickup there should be, which doesnt make sense to me.

 

The only weapon that is a pure straight upgrade to the magnum is the DMR for obvious reasons. This i have a problem with.

 

The br is too easy to use, but its the only burst weapon.

 

Carbine is rangier with a large clip and fastest semi auto in the game(also too easy though, i sense a theme...)

 

Etc etc. All these weapons have different uses based on their mechanics, but they are too easy to use causing too much overlap.

 

Reduce the assist/bullet magnetism and make the plasmas do less health damage and your 90% of the way there.

 

Putting the current weapons in the right spots and limiting how many are on the map at a time is far more important and something that is more likely to be accomplished quickly.

 

We dont need a bunch of new weapons in the sandbox that send damage from point A to point B in a way that you have never seen before, tweak the ones we already have and put them in the right spots.

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If the map pickups in this game were a little more difficult to use, we wouldnt be having this discussion because the differences would be more apparent. Lets not confuse this. I agree more variety in the tier 1 weapon types would be good, but youre overstating the extent of the problem and throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Youre basically arguing that the LR is the only tier 1 pickup there should be, which doesnt make sense to me.

 

The only weapon that is a pure straight upgrade to the magnum is the DMR for obvious reasons. This i have a problem with.

 

The br is too easy to use, but its the only burst weapon.

 

Carbine is rangier with a large clip and fastest semi auto in the game(also too easy though, i sense a theme...)

 

Etc etc. All these weapons have different uses based on their mechanics, but they are too easy to use causing too much overlap.

 

Reduce the assist/bullet magnetism and make the plasmas do less health damage and your 90% of the way there.

 

Putting the current weapons in the right spots and limiting how many are on the map at a time is far more important and something that is more likely to be accomplished quickly.

 

We dont need a bunch of new weapons in the sandbox that send damage from point A to point B in a way that you have never seen before, tweak the ones we already have and put them in the right spots.

They'd still be redundant even if they were as difficult as the magnum. The problem is that I can run around and accomplish everything the magnum can with a BR, DMR, or Carbine. They are all utility weapons, and they all overlap. Since the magnum's range will likely never be buffed, all we need is one other precision rifle that can confidently challenge a sniper rifle: the LR. It makes perfect sense.

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If the map pickups in this game were a little more difficult to use, we wouldnt be having this discussion because the differences would be more apparent. Lets not confuse this. I agree more variety in the tier 1 weapon types would be good, but youre overstating the extent of the problem and throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Youre basically arguing that the LR is the only tier 1 pickup there should be, which doesnt make sense to me.

 

The only weapon that is a pure straight upgrade to the magnum is the DMR for obvious reasons. This i have a problem with.

 

The br is too easy to use, but its the only burst weapon.

 

Carbine is rangier with a large clip and fastest semi auto in the game(also too easy though, i sense a theme...)

 

Etc etc. All these weapons have different uses based on their mechanics, but they are too easy to use causing too much overlap.

 

Reduce the assist/bullet magnetism and make the plasmas do less health damage and your 90% of the way there.

 

Putting the current weapons in the right spots and limiting how many are on the map at a time is far more important and something that is more likely to be accomplished quickly.

 

We dont need a bunch of new weapons in the sandbox that send damage from point A to point B in a way that you have never seen before, tweak the ones we already have and put them in the right spots.

I do agree with you on the CC but how do BR and DMR have different uses (outside of SWAT where you can theoretically get a tripple with one trigger pull)? Their main difference come down to visual and audio (single shot vs. burst) but I don't see those weapons occupying a unique niche.

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They'd still be redundant even if they were as difficult as the magnum. The problem is that I can run around and accomplish everything the magnum can with a BR, DMR, or Carbine. They are all utility weapons, and they all overlap. Since the magnum's range will likely never be buffed, all we need is one other precision rifle that can confidently challenge a sniper rifle: the LR. It makes perfect sense.

In the BR's defense, it serves a purpose as long as precision weapons lack bleedthrough.

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In the BR's defense, it serves a purpose as long as precision weapons lack bleedthrough.

It still needs more to set it apart though. So many of these precision weapons are too damn similar. If the BR had a slower burst and more recoil (think Retro Lancer) but a faster TTK, I think the weapon might actually have some character and feel unique (especially if you gave it a deep, beefy sound when you fired it). But as of right now the BR, DMR and Carbine's difference are so minor that they might as well be the same damn weapon.

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Question: Do we even want anything (especially a weapon pad) Top Mid on Truth?

 

Thoughts on The Rig as well?

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Question: Do we even want anything (especially a weapon pad) Top Mid on Truth?

 

Thoughts on The Rig as well?

 

GL just because I want a GL on every map.

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@@Deez Now that Pro league is done, will we be getting updates on what the new settings are going to be soon?   :holmes:

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Question: Do we even want anything (especially a weapon pad) Top Mid on Truth?

 

Thoughts on The Rig as well?

 

Put the only two Splinter nades up there. 

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Question: Do we even want anything (especially a weapon pad) Top Mid on Truth?

 

Thoughts on The Rig as well?

Move sword top mid. Remove fuel. That's all.

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Question: Do we even want anything (especially a weapon pad) Top Mid on Truth?

 

Thoughts on The Rig as well?

My only thoughts are that I hope they stop putting weapons on maps that they are too good on. What are the best guns for a super small map with tight corners? Shotgun, caster, and rockets are clearly very strong on that map along with autos. Which weapons bring about the most degenerate gameplay on that same map? Same list. Its why nobody put rockets top mid on Midship. Why a sniper rifle wasn't ever allowed under normal settings on Standoff and why caster shouldn't be on Rig. Fuel Rod shouldn't have been on Truth and why the SAW doesn't have a place on Empire. 

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Question: Do we even want anything (especially a weapon pad) Top Mid on Truth?

 

Thoughts on The Rig as well?

I think that's where the sword should be. Then just move the PP to where the sword spawns.

 

Rig's camo should spawn 1 minute into the game. That's such a good idea we used for MLG Construct that we've never revisited for some reason.

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I agree with those saying sword top mid on truth. I think fuel could still be used in comp halo if it had no spare ammo, but it doesn't have a place on truth.

 

On Rig I like the idea of delaying camo.

 

Another half idea for balancing Rig (slayer?) might be to replace camo with ov, and put camo outside the base somewhere. Give each team a powerup and a power weapon off spawn. I'd like to see a slayer with two powerups at least, maybe rig isn't the map for it.

 

Edit: and replace casters with nade launchers goes without saying

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