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Halo 5: Guardians Arena Gameplay Settings Thread

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Eden Strongholds still utilizes Camo and OS. Unless you were strictly referring to Slayer maps not having two power ups. Anyway, I like your ideas on which power weapons could be featured and the possibility of having both Camo and OS. Maybe for Slayer there is no weapon pad and it comes down to teams controlling the two power ups. Thoughts?

That's a fantastic idea.  Regarding the two powerups, I did mean for Slayer. I was unclear.  In my opinion the two powerup idea was implemented backwards. It's unneeded in objective because there is already incentive to move. Slayer gets much, much more benefit from two powerups because the only incentive to move are the items.

 

I've heard several people reminisce on the days of maps that had few to zero power weapons. Currently this niche is unfilled in Halo 5.  I think a small map like Empire or Regret would be the perfect way to implement an idea like that, and fill that void. No Tier 3 weapons. Just an OS and a Camo.

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I dig it. We may have to take a shot at this idea. Good stuff, thanks for the feedback.

Very cool. It's my pleasure. Thanks for coming around.

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Very cool. It's my pleasure. Thanks for coming around.

 

+1 for multiple power ups for slayer. Eden Strongholds was one of the few map/gametypes that made me have to think a little about what I should be going for.

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Couldn't sleep and was thinking about Halo 5 maps and wanted to start asking some questions in here to see where people's opinions are on a few of them.

 

What are your thoughts on Empire Slayer? In particular, the weapons and items found on it. What would you like to see changed to improve that map/mode combo?

 

I have more questions on other maps but I'll limit it to one at a time for now just to keep things focused. Thanks!

 

As it was mentioned before, Empire would be a good test-bed for two-powerup TS. Camo T1 and OS outside would be a good thing to try out. Also IIRC TS still has SMGs in the window, and I think you'd do well to remove those. Adding another rifle could benefit Empire in general as well. My logic here is that since autos currently dominate the map, giving players more options to upgrade their precision weapon would help balance them out.

 

In a more general sense T2 timers for autos (just give them the 10s respawn you currently give to Shotties/Hydra), longer spawn times on current T2 weapons and Splinters (60s would be a huge improvement here), and testing the Grenade Launcher on every map where it would make sense would make me a lot happier.

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I leave for one day and @@Deez shows up, this is criminal.

 

My friend and I always refer to Empire as "a map that would have been loved in Halo 2", but is hated heavily in Halo 5. The geometry of the map actually screams traditional Halo and I think the reason it suffers is from Halo 5's ridiculous movement options and a bad weapon set. I feel as though there is an obsession to find as many places to put weapons as possible, and every map always must have a power weapon of sorts. If Empire was treated more as one of those "hyper-slayer", "utility weapon-heavy" style maps, then it would be appreciated a lot more, and this goes for all of the modes, Slayer and Strongholds

 

(CTF is a bit too bad just because of Halo 5's movement. No Sprint CTF on Empire would be amazingly good)

 

I think Halo 5 deserves a map like Midship of old where player movement and gunskill is slightly more important than power weapons like SAW or Rockets. I think trying two powerups would be a great idea to start.

 

  • Splinters in Sneakies are not balanced because of the claustrophobic area
  • OS Outside is a great location
  • Shotgun/SAW/Base SMGs are just overpowering for such a close-range map.
  • Base DMRs or even a Midfield BR (in Pit, per say) can still function properly

My friend an I often 1v1 on a variant with OS Outside, Boltshot between OS & Turbine, BR in Pit, No Splinters, and an SMG in Tower 2 but that could easily work with a Plasma Pistol in 4v4. However, even with Halo 5's long spawns and fast movement, the map still might not be large enough. With a nerf to movement, it plays amazingly.

 

Did you ever put thought into utilizing the Tier 2 timers for more weapons across the board? @@Hard Way and I were always a big fan of that concept.

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I dig it. We may have to take a shot at this idea. Good stuff, thanks for the feedback.

Just here to say I miss your hair, sweatpants, and playtest trash talk. 

 

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Hey Vetoed! Thanks for replying. Always appreciate your well thought out feedback and conversations. I do have a follow up question for you regarding your quote above. What do you mean by "If it's still happening no matter what..."? If what is happening? Whether we update the map or leave it in its current state? Thanks!

I figured the question came up because Empire TS was up for consideration to be re-implemented in Arena/HCS settings (Winter Preview?). Didn't think it might just be a random update for the map.

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@@Deez i really just want to reiterate that reclassifying the storm rifle as a tier 2 weapon would be an amazing change across the board. Sounds like this is gaing some traction which is great. I think a slight reduction in damage to health would be good paired with an increase in swap speed to the secondary weapon. This could encourage using both weapons in a battle. Ie pop off a few shots to melt shields, swap to pistol and finish with a headshot. But im getting away from the initial question here.

 

The idea of not having power weapons or shotty/scatter on this map in favor of 2 powerups is great and definitely needs to be tried.

 

I am not in favor of totally closing the window to the bases. One of the few longer sight line on the map are out that window. However, i think closing it enough so you cant jump through it while maintaining most of the sight line would be good.

 

 

Thank you so much for posting here and looking for feedback. As im sure you can tell 343 has a strained ralationship with many halo lovers right now. Little things like this can make a big difference in improving that. @@ske7ch has been doing a great job since coming on board too. We appreciate it!

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I talked to Quinn about this on Waypoint during one of the initial refreshes, but I thoroughly believe that all non-Weapon Pad weapons should be Tier 2. At the very least, midfield/power position weapons should be Tier 2 to prevent snowballing.

 

I play a version of the game with my friend @@MaceX42 where we move some weapons around the maps and convert them all to Tier 2 timers with reduced ammo.

 

Positives

  • Only 1 of each weapon spawn can be used at a time (only 1 BR on Truth at a time), which in turn...
  • Promotes utility weapon (Magnum) usage by making on-map weapons less of a "I should pick this up to upgrade from my Pistol"
  • Reduces Snowballing: a team with control on Truth can no longer get a full setup with 4 BRs just by repeatedly picking up the P2 BR and having a damage upgrade over spawners (weapon snowballing is a universal constant across all of Halo 5's maps)
  • Makes being killed by a weapon more meaningful: Currently, if I get killed by an SMG on the other end of the Rig, I just get frustrated because in reality there are probably 2-4 SMGs floating around the map and it feels random to die to. With Tier 2s, I know that if I got killed by an SMG player all the way in Basement, he made a deliberate choice to rotate and use that weapon away from its designated area
  • Promotes player roles/playstyles and weapon preferences: Same as before, players no longer feel incentivized to just "upgrade" their weapons. Picking up a Battle Rifle AND SMG could be detrimental to your team because you are being selfish and not communicating weapon control/locations. Royal 2 and Snipedown will be picking up Coliseum and Empire DMRs, whereas a Huke may always be fiddling with the SMG on Rig.
  • Requires a new layer of communication in regards to weapon control. "I have BR, we can push", "I just died to SMG in Security". Calling out allies and enemies' weapon control could make or break team fights.

 

Negatives

  • (If executed flawlessly...) teams can horde weapons and remove any upgrade potential for spawners
  • If a player is currently using a weapon for a long time, or it is dropped far away from its spawn location, a new player may try to return to the spawn location and the weapon will not be in its designated spot, which can be confusing for both competitive and casual players.

 

 

Solutions to Negatives

  • Reduce ammo in weapons across the board (BR = 1 Spare Clip
  • Decrease despawn time value
  • Re-evaluate respawn value (I use around 10-15 seconds) for correct balance
  • Reduce quantity of weapons on every map

 

Reducing ammo does two things. First, it changes the intent of a weapon like the Battle Rifle to focus on its role, rather than just being a damage upgrade from the loadout weapons. Someone who wants to grab an Eden BR may keep their Pistol in their pocket because they don't want to run out of ammo on their precision weapon. Secondly, if a player runs out of ammo in their pickup weapon, it will be put on respawn immediately when they die.

 

Speeding up the despawn time accomplishes the same goal. If a weapon is dropped or traded and abandoned by all of the combatants, it will be sent back to its intended location faster, maintaining order in the universe. With these changes, a person wielding an on-map weapon gains a much more important role rather than just having the upper hand in random gunfights. Additionally, when that player dies or the weapon is abandoned, it is sent to its spawn location as fast as possible to reset the map's composition and return to standard gameplay expectations.

 

I will admit, however, that this system works most efficiently on asymmetric maps and with midfield weapons on symmetric maps (P2 BR, the Coliseum BR/BPR/Carbine, etc.) When you have weapons like the Empire/Coliseum DMRs, it can become slightly difficult to track weapons

 

(I actually have a clever solution for this, I might photoshop a mockup if anyone is interested)

 

All in all, competitive Halo right now can often be considered random or unskillful because of how little the Magnum is pushed towards the forefront of combat. With universal Tier 2 timers, we can strike a great balance between the utility weapon-heavy combat of old, with Halo 5's already existing weapon diversity and sandbox implementation.

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I think moving ALL non spawn weapons to tier 2 is a bit much. The SR 100% needs to be tier 2 and I could argue that the SMG could be too.

 

The snowbally effect of the tier 1 weapons could be mitigated by 1) having less total weapon pickups and 2) increasing the static spawn time from 15 seconds to more like 45 or 60 seconds.

 

Moving them all to tier 2 might be a good solution eventually, i just think that jumping straight there is leaping over some less drastic options that may take care of the problem.

 

I prefer a regularly executed tweak, tweak, tweak approach to balancing over total overhauls.

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The snowbally effect of the tier 1 weapons could be mitigated by 1) having less total weapon pickups and 2) increasing the static spawn time from 15 seconds to more like 45 or 60 seconds.

 

Moving them all to tier 2 might be a good solution eventually, i just think that jumping straight there is leaping over some less drastic options that may take care of the problem.

 

 

I do think these are good compromises, though. I think Tier 2 is the way to go to enhance the metagame and strategical use of the weapons but if they don't want to make that giant leap there are definitely smaller steps that need to be taken to reduce the randomness.

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I do think these are good compromises, though. I think Tier 2 is the way to go to enhance the metagame and strategical use of the weapons but if they don't want to make that giant leap there are definitely smaller steps that need to be taken to reduce the randomness.

All autos (or maybe any weapon of which only one exists as a pickup on a map) to tier 2, all other weapon pickups to 60 second timer? Affectively does the same thing, but keeps pickups like coli dmrs a little bit easier to track.

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I do think these are good compromises, though. I think Tier 2 is the way to go to enhance the metagame and strategical use of the weapons but if they don't want to make that giant leap there are definitely smaller steps that need to be taken to reduce the randomness.

Agreed for sure!

 

The key for 343 i think is that they need to make a big update soon for servers, settings, balance and playlists to pull players back. Then just make small tweaks much more often than they have been to keep up with the meta, but not so often that the meta cant develop fully to compensate.

 

i hate the term "meta" btw and think its overused but cant think of a better term lol.

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Agreed for sure!

 

The key for 343 i think is that they need to make a big update soon for servers, settings, balance and playlists to pull players back. Then just make small tweaks much more often than they have been to keep up with the meta, but not so often that the meta cant develop fully to compensate.

 

i hate the term "meta" btw and think its overused but cant think of a better term lol.

Once someone told me they read "meta" as "most effective tactic available", it suddenly became a lot less obnoxious to me.

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I think moving ALL non spawn weapons to tier 2 is a bit much. The SR 100% needs to be tier 2 and I could argue that the SMG could be too.

 

The snowbally effect of the tier 1 weapons could be mitigated by 1) having less total weapon pickups and 2) increasing the static spawn time from 15 seconds to more like 45 or 60 seconds.

 

Moving them all to tier 2 might be a good solution eventually, i just think that jumping straight there is leaping over some less drastic options that may take care of the problem.

 

I prefer a regularly executed tweak, tweak, tweak approach to balancing over total overhauls.

Autos at the very least need to all be on a tier 2 spawn, as they're more or less straight upgrades to the AR you spawn with. Arguments could be made for rifles put on tier 2, but it could be difficult to gain back momentum if the enemy gets your rifles; a longer spawn time could work for them. As you said, rifle spawns could also be limited.

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I talked to Quinn about this on Waypoint during one of the initial refreshes, but I thoroughly believe that all non-Weapon Pad weapons should be Tier 2. At the very least, midfield/power position weapons should be Tier 2 to prevent snowballing.

While it's not inherently a bad idea, and I definitely see what it tries to achieve, I think that the final result wouldn't be as anticipated. 

 

For the most part, what would happen is that we'd see less low tier weapons being used overall because of a limited supply. That on its own, isn't necessarily a bad thing, because those weapons are meant to be an advantage to use and rarely just situational, but the advantage they provide isn't big enough to make people call out over them and focus on shutting them down. What I mean is, while it is easier for a BR (or whatever other precision weapon) user to pressure people, you don't need to adjust your play style vs. one, which makes calling it out redundant. For that reason, people with good comms won't bother specifying that.

 

The main change left from this would be that those weapons aren't on respawn as often as now, which does two things:

 

First, it increases awareness and predictability of those weapons, which is good (at least for autos, because fuck running into a random storm rifle). Second, it creates more situations where people will walk over a precision weapon spawn just to find that it's not there. It's not a big deal in most cases aside from creating a minor waste of time for people who are looking for them, but it can be a problem on maps like Truth where those weapons are a factor toward holding a solid spawn trap and/or map control.

 

Specifically, when taking over map control (assuming other team had it beforehand) there's a good chance the Carbine won't be up because of the previous person who had it and died with it, which makes it harder to stay in control after breaking free from spawn pressure because of that little advantage you're missing. It's not a big deal, but it in fact favors the team which initially got map control, creating a mini snowball effect.

 

Now as far as storm rifles and SMGs go, I'll be the first to say that in their current state, they respawn way too quickly and are far too numerous on just about ANY map. Those are the kind of weapons that people will go out of their way to pick up 9 times out of 10, and it's not uncommon to see multiple of them at once. FFA reflects that a lot because people rely on weapons far more than in 4v4. In fact, it happened a lot last weekend at HCS Vegas, despite the updated map set. I specifically remember seeing three different storm rifles in the kill feed one time.

 

I strongly think moving automatic weapon pick-ups to tier 2 would make sense because the advantage those offer over the AR is just raw power. The same can't be said about precision weapons, where they're usually just a little easier to use at range (greater red reticle range, zoom, bullet magnetism) and the damage advantage is essentially a non-factor in battles. Automatic pick-ups are just straight up stronger, and engaging head on without being able to predict them means death more times than not. For that reason, it would make sense to change those, but for precision weapons, I can't say I agree.

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My issue with all of the on-map upgrades (because that's what they are) is that NONE of them add nothing interesting to the game at all, which is why I'm iffy on the tier two respawns. It doesn't fix the core problem, as Batchford pretty much described, which is that the only thing those weapons do is what your starting weapons do but better. What positive impact does that have? What interesting strategy does that bring to the table? I can't think of anything. It just compresses the skill gap.

​Scenario A: I thrust slide all the way across the map to an enclosed area. I see an enemy player near me and switch to my AR so I don't need to aim. I get melted because he has a storm rifle and I don't. Outplayed?

​Scenario B: I spawn. I thrust slide all the way across the map into an open area. I get easily cross-map 4-shotted by an enemy player with a BR because the magnum sucks. Outplayed?

​I guess tier two timers would be a bit better, but I would rather remove these completely redundant weapons or rework them to make them interesting options that require actual skill and forethought to use.

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Also last comment but Grenade Launcher > Plasma Caster, can we put this on Arena maps when it launches? Was one of the only great things to come out of Halo:Reach.

 

 

As a viewer rather than a player, I concur that Grenade Launcher >>>>>> Caster.

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Spawn with only 1 ar mag

 

 

Removal of fuel on truth is a must. Put Hydra up there and storm rifle bottom mid

 

 

Replace dmrs with recon dmrs on empire

 

 

Replace storm rifles bottom truth with gunfighter magnums or boltshot

 

 

 

Empire slayer shouldn't have os or rockets. It would be great to just have one map that is mostly about gun skill. If anything put shotty where os spawns and a camo outside

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Nice to see 343 asking these questions. Who exactly is Deez?

Quinn DelHoyo

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Quinn DelHoyo

Wow that's awesome! I wish he'd have done this sooner, but to see him sound open to trying these suggestions is pretty badass.

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