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Halo 5: Guardians Arena Gameplay Settings Thread

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They need to do something about TS, I don't even bother watching most of the TS maps after the first couple of minutes when I watch the HCS VODs. 

 

What do you mean?

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What do you mean?

One of 2 things happens with slayer:

 

1) it snowballs out of control and one team get crushed or

2) If the game is close it turns into a crouch-walking camp fest. slow and boring.

 

neither of which are particularly interesting to watch or play.  The only time it is interesting is when the game is tied with 45+ kills and its the deciding match of the series. So slayer is basically interesting for 2 minutes per series.

 

Its hard to break that habit though when you cant flank cuz radar

 

Edit: I would love to see the interesting shit that Frosty, Ola, and Bubu would do without radar.

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I think having competed in h5 for a few months i think i can give some opinions on what i think h5 would need to change.

 

So to preface this, i understand 343i has a fundamental idea on how they want h5 to play. Old school Halo games where utility and PWs such as h2 or h3 are not happening and 343i wants usage of the sandbox as a whole. I'll try to not make this super long hopefully and get to the main points.

 

1) Take radar out. One of the main issues I have is a specific playstyle, one that players ryanoob have where you're doing sneaky plays and the like, is very much weakened in h5. Radar seriously nerfs this playstyle very hard and even in h5 you could do a good amount of stuff once players figured out ghosting but alas, that was removed. Making it so unless you are literally crouching, you are in radar. This makes it so players have information fed to them where they did not do anything to achieve said info. At first I could see the argument that h5 is too chaotic to have no radar but honestly after players have figured out the game i think the argument doesn't work anymore. Players are understanding that maps aren't just a pile of mess but in the chaos there is a lot of sense to what is happening. 

 

2) CQC in general. CQC in this game can be pretty whack tbh mainly because it becomes an AR to beat down fest in a good amount of areas when you're in very close quarters. I understand the idea, Autos should be best in one set of scenarios, rifles another, etc. however how strong Auto use + melee is it makes the cqc very neutered down. I think a good solution to this is making Thrust cancel any melee lunge or some solution to where Thrust beats melee. This makes the cqc in the game WAY better because of the options and mind games it hands out. 

 

3) Autos The pistol is defined as the utility weapon in the game but i feel that the pistol is still a bit weak in general. Mainly in the use of pistol/rifles vs auto/rifle idea. I think thats the main issue which i think would be fixed by either buffing rifles or nerfing autos. I think nerfing ARs by increasing bloom would be fine (IIRC first 3 shots are 100% accurate) or decreasing the damage as a whole or decreasing aim assist w/ less damage at longer ranges. Something to weaken the AR use to where rifles/pistol usage is more used in higher levels of play and a bit more in mid-tier play (Diamond/low onyx). I think the idea for ARs is fine, have a weapon to use in low levels of play but the auto does leak into levels of play higher than gold for example. I think with radar removal and AR nerf the cqc part of the game would overall be fixed. I think Storm Rifle/SMG placements in season 2 are for the most part fine because of how bad a lot of the placements for those weapons are. 

 

4) Weapons ease of use. The game in general aiming wise, is pretty easy to use. The pistol is the hardest weapon in the game and that only becomes a difficult weapon when the thruster is used effectively. which btw is pretty cool but lets look at every weapon in the game 

 

- Pistol: Either easy or hardish. Once Thruster is used effectively it becomes harder. I do like that players like bubu dubu are using the pistol over BR in 1v1s and I think if anything, you should try to make the pistol play more to these strengths somehow

 

- BR: An easier pistol thats burst. I don't think anyone is going to be able to refute that the BR is harder than the pistol. Tbh Im not sure what to do here

 

- Carbine: Easy in long range and harder in close range. I think this gun is actually somewhat hard at times. It's fine as is with it being only good at long range

 

- DMR; Easier pistol with faster RoF. I think the b-mag should be decreased a good amount but keep the RoF for the upgrade

 

- AR/Storm/Brute plasma: Autos in general are pretty easy. I think balance wise this is fine, I'd just put the stuff i said on the AR and that would be it

 

- Suppressor: OK ill be honest this gun is hard to use effectively but thats only because the gun just sucks unless you are in the only range its good at

 

- Rockets: Have they ever been hard? They're fine as is since if you miss one youre done

 

- Sniper: Probably the easiest sniper in halo or 2nd hardest (maybe 3rd i forget if h4 was easy or not). No-scoping in general is ezpz. A general aiming nerf will be fine for this

 

- Railgun: Easy though if you can thrust dodge perfectly, you will punish them heavily. Which I think should be more focused on through a patch by decreasing bullet mag

 

I think with how 343 is making Thruster a big fundamental aspect of missing players shots, 343 should make this a bigger aspect of the game because currently most weapons in this game are EASY. I think the best way to make everything more difficult overall is just in general decreasing bullet mag therefor making Thrust cancels and the like more useful since you can punish players for missing more often. 

 

I think for the most part the game has a solid foundation, just a few fixed and it'd be really good. So far I like the game competitive though so good job 343. I think the only issues h5 has are the same issues every Halo game has where execution becomes a super high part of the game but i digress on that point. Games alright just needs some fixes

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Reviving this thread because we have a new Season coming up, along with pros going to 343. Obviously Pros aren't reading this thread or generic fan feedback but this is mainly stuff that I personally want to see heading into Fall Season and the future of H5.

 

General:

  • [On Symmetrical Maps] Neutral Tier 1 Weapons converted to Tier 2 Timers (P2 BR on Truth, Storm Rifle on Regret, Coliseum Carbine/BR)
  • [On Asymmetrical Maps] ALL Tier 1 Weapons converted to Tier 2 Timers
  • Riptide weapon layout heavily modified, I still believe that this is one of the most underrated maps in H5 and is heavily suffering from its current weapon layout.
  • Molten considered for HCS competition
  • Add Assault on 2-3 maps
  • Reduce Sniper Hitbox

 

Truth:

  • Remove Fuel Rod or replace with SPNKr Rockets
  • Tier 2 Carbine & BR

 

Fathom:

  • Revert Railgun/Camo to original placements increase game pace (this change is good on paper, but due to map flow/sightlines it just needs to be amped up to avoid stalemates e.g. HCS Finals w/ OpTic-Denial)
  • Storm Rifles replaced with Brute Plasma Rifles

 

Empire:

  • Remove Splinters from Sneakies

 

Eden:

  • Move Shotgun to below Catwalk (or to another deficit position)
  • [strongholds] Revert OS/Camo to their original mid-game optimal locations

 

 

Coliseum and Regret are pretty bangin in their current state, and I have a terrible grasp on what needs to be changed on Plaza, but I'm sure the Pros have a ton of ideas for that.

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I gotta say, I really dislike any map putting camo top mid without some clear avenue of escape. I find that exposing it like that just makes baiting the best strategy and it gets burnt more often than not.

 

Strongholds Plaza and Fathom Slayer really suffer from it imo.

There is a huge problem with powerups in general since CE. Without nading possibilities strategies are neutered to killing people on the other team before you can grab it. It's boring and samey. Watch games from Beach LAN and look at all the possibilities around powerups in literally every competitive map. This is one of the things that creates such dynamic gameplay during the peak moments of your slayer gametype. Look at how Damnation is played at a high level @@Sal1ent and tell me how nade tricks do not benefit variety of strategy in regards to powerups which increases watchability and fun for players trying to counter what their opponent might try to do.

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Reviving this thread because we have a new Season coming up, along with pros going to 343. Obviously Pros aren't reading this thread or generic fan feedback but this is mainly stuff that I personally want to see heading into Fall Season and the future of H5.

 

General:

  • [On Symmetrical Maps] Neutral Tier 1 Weapons converted to Tier 2 Timers (P2 BR on Truth, Storm Rifle on Regret, Coliseum Carbine/BR)
  • [On Asymmetrical Maps] ALL Tier 1 Weapons converted to Tier 2 Timers
  • Riptide weapon layout heavily modified, I still believe that this is one of the most underrated maps in H5 and is heavily suffering from its current weapon layout.
  • Molten considered for HCS competition
  • Add Assault on 2-3 maps
  • Reduce Sniper Hitbox

 

Truth:

  • Remove Fuel Rod or replace with SPNKr Rockets
  • Tier 2 Carbine & BR

 

Fathom:

  • Revert Railgun/Camo to original placements increase game pace (this change is good on paper, but due to map flow/sightlines it just needs to be amped up to avoid stalemates e.g. HCS Finals w/ OpTic-Denial)
  • Storm Rifles replaced with Brute Plasma Rifles

 

Empire:

  • Remove Splinters from Sneakies

 

Eden:

  • Move Shotgun to below Catwalk (or to another deficit position)
  • [strongholds] Revert OS/Camo to their original mid-game optimal locations

 

 

Coliseum and Regret are pretty bangin in their current state, and I have a terrible grasp on what needs to be changed on Plaza, but I'm sure the Pros have a ton of ideas for that.

 

I like a lot of these changes, but it's missing no radar.  :)

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Reviving this thread because we have a new Season coming up, along with pros going to 343. Obviously Pros aren't reading this thread or generic fan feedback but this is mainly stuff that I personally want to see heading into Fall Season and the future of H5.

 

General:

  • [On Symmetrical Maps] Neutral Tier 1 Weapons converted to Tier 2 Timers (P2 BR on Truth, Storm Rifle on Regret, Coliseum Carbine/BR)
  • [On Asymmetrical Maps] ALL Tier 1 Weapons converted to Tier 2 Timers
  • Riptide weapon layout heavily modified, I still believe that this is one of the most underrated maps in H5 and is heavily suffering from its current weapon layout.
  • Molten considered for HCS competition
  • Add Assault on 2-3 maps
  • Reduce Sniper Hitbox

 

Truth:

  • Remove Fuel Rod or replace with SPNKr Rockets
  • Tier 2 Carbine & BR

 

Fathom:

  • Revert Railgun/Camo to original placements increase game pace (this change is good on paper, but due to map flow/sightlines it just needs to be amped up to avoid stalemates e.g. HCS Finals w/ OpTic-Denial)
  • Storm Rifles replaced with Brute Plasma Rifles

 

Empire:

  • Remove Splinters from Sneakies

 

Eden:

  • Move Shotgun to below Catwalk (or to another deficit position)
  • [strongholds] Revert OS/Camo to their original mid-game optimal locations

 

 

Coliseum and Regret are pretty bangin in their current state, and I have a terrible grasp on what needs to be changed on Plaza, but I'm sure the Pros have a ton of ideas for that.

 

I agree with the Eden, Empire, and Fathom changes.

 

Wholeheartedly disagree with Truth changes. Fuel Rod cannon being added made that from being one of the better maps in the game to one of the most annoying. SPNKr rockets would make it equally as stupid, there's no reason to have either of those weapons on that map.

 

And Molten needs to stay away from the HCS as much as possible. It's too small and segregated for competitive play. It just has a bad design in general.

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There is a huge problem with powerups in general since CE. Without nading possibilities strategies are neutered to killing people on the other team before you can grab it. It's boring and samey. Watch games from Beach LAN and look at all the possibilities around powerups in literally every competitive map. This is one of the things that creates such dynamic gameplay during the peak moments of your slayer gametype. Look at how Damnation is played at a high level @@Sal1ent and tell me how nade tricks do not benefit variety of strategy in regards to powerups which increases watchability and fun for players trying to counter what their opponent might try to do.

The camo on Damnation, and what you can do with it, adds so much to that map. Nothing in halo 5 even comes close to it. Honestly no other halo home really comes close to it.

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The camo on Damnation, and what you can do with it, adds so much to that map. Nothing in halo 5 even comes close to it. Honestly no other halo home really come close to it.

Same deal with OS and rockets but yeah camo is the main focus. There is so much baiting on both sides. And deciding whether to jump the wall with OS or take the long way or just watch it and try to nade people off as they try to nade jump off. Or just throw a nade beside it to take it out of play completely. It's also awesome as fuck when someone lands a fall from catwalk onto the OS if it's a spur of the moment thing.

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I agree with the Eden, Empire, and Fathom changes.

 

Wholeheartedly disagree with Truth changes. Fuel Rod cannon being added made that from being one of the better maps in the game to one of the most annoying. SPNKr rockets would make it equally as stupid, there's no reason to have either of those weapons on that map.

 

And Molten needs to stay away from the HCS as much as possible. It's too small and segregated for competitive play. It just has a bad design in general.

I think Molten has some decent flow and room for crafty play. I'm not a super fan of the current weapon layout; I think Sniper is in a good spot and would benefit with some better sticky placements for weapon launching. The rifles and BPR could be moved and could use some powerups as well.

 

And keep in mind I said I want to remove Fuel from Truth as well. If they NEED an item to be Top Mid, it should be Caster or SPNKr.

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I think Molten has some decent flow and room for crafty play. I'm not a super fan of the current weapon layout; I think Sniper is in a good spot and would benefit with some better sticky placements for weapon launching. The rifles and BPR could be moved and could use some powerups as well.

 

And keep in mind I said I want to remove Fuel from Truth as well. If they NEED an item to be Top Mid, it should be Caster or SPNKr.

 

I think that map suffers from the same issues a lot of other maps (Riptide comes to mind immediately) in that it's just another snowball-y esque map. If you force spawn them down below, they have no choice but to come up long flights  of narrow, nadeable, stairs to regain control of the map. Which high level players are going to abuse the living crap out of. Casual players do it, there aren't many feasible ways to get to the top of the map.

 

Truth with Plasma Caster was fantastic. I don't have any idea why that was removed for a Fuel Rod, which is basically a spammable 1 shot kill rocket launcher. The plasma caster fit the dynamic of the map nicely (curved surfaces such as the Bubbles that you can bank grenades into, but also do not kill someone in one shot). If Halo 5 were to ever get a grenade launcher, that or the caster would play so much better on a lot of these maps. But for now, I'm highly in favor of the caster. It was very useful, but at the same time not completely dictating a map.

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I think that map suffers from the same issues a lot of other maps (Riptide comes to mind immediately) in that it's just another snowball-y esque map. If you force spawn them down below, they have no choice but to come up long flights  of narrow, nadeable, stairs to regain control of the map. Which high level players are going to abuse the living crap out of. Casual players do it, there aren't many feasible ways to get to the top of the map.

 

 

I could definitely see that argument with Riptide, but for Molten I think the dynamic between Bunker, Barrels, Control (Engine), and Station (Sniper/BPR) is really nice, with cool flanks possible from Lava, Fridge, etc. I also think the Deck/Light Rifle area is a cool combat space, the only thing the map suffers from is some misplaced weapons and lack of powerups. The back of Oven is a bit dead but I think the map has some crazy potential. In fact I've never even went into customs to check out the Strongholds layout. Maybe that could work.

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I could definitely see that argument with Riptide, but for Molten I think the dynamic between Bunker, Barrels, Control (Engine), and Station (Sniper/BPR) is really nice, with cool flanks possible from Lava, Fridge, etc. I also think the Deck/Light Rifle area is a cool combat space, the only thing the map suffers from is some misplaced weapons and lack of powerups. The back of Oven is a bit dead but I think the map has some crazy potential. In fact I've never even went into customs to check out the Strongholds layout. Maybe that could work.

The more i have played Molten, the more i "get it" and am able to enjoy it.  I'm just not convinced that it would be a good high-level competitive map.  It definitely limits possibilities for teamshot and i think its too segmented.  The corner tower (the re-worked BR tower from The Rig) has TOO MUCH cover and the bottom-middle area of the map is a total dead zone.

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Molten is a disaster, spawning in Lava Room feels hopeless.

 

 

BPR should be Deck where Needler is, along with some other tools to break that setup.

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Could you make an argument that the AR is the closest thing to an actual Utility weapon in H5? It seems like most pros will trade out their pistols before their AR's. If you compare it to the Pistol Close/medium/long range it certainly holds its own. I am not saying it is, but I do think it is an interesting topic. I think you cold certainly argue for it, which is more than what you can say for any previous AR in Halo. 

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Could you make an argument that the AR is the closest thing to an actual Utility weapon in H5? It seems like most pros will trade out their pistols before their AR's. If you compare it to the Pistol Close/medium/long range it certainly holds its own. I am not saying it is, but I do think it is an interesting topic. I think you cold certainly argue for it, which is more than what you can say for any previous AR in Halo. 

True, although this is only the case when traded for another precision weapon.  If its a rocket launcher or sword etc, the AR tends to go from what I have seen.  That being said, I think this AR is the 'most used'.

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My Thoughts on Fall Preview | Cc: @@Deez
Overgrowth: Strongholds was always the go to gametype on this map, and I've actually considerably enjoyed the new version. Moving the Stronghold to Bog (Pit) opens up a lot of new potential and objective-oriented sight lines.

BR -> Pit
LR -> Pit
Tram Door -> Pit

I will say that I think the Market spawn trap will be a bit broken at the end of the day at the highest level and I could see the Brute Plasma Rifle moved from Plaza to either Blue Bend, Overpass, or Market to more effectively give deficit teams a breaking tool.

I hear a lot of people say that this gametype should replace Empire Strongholds, and while I think it may be deserving of an Arena spot, I wouldn't say that "replacing" gametypes is the most logical way to go about selecting our rotation.

Assault:

Tyrant Assault is just too small. Ironically, Tyrant was originally more 'accepted' during its release but I think it is by far the worst DLC map for 4v4 play. It's decent for Doubles and some casual play but the spawns on any mode are just too claustrophobic at the highest level of play.

Coliseum Assault is pretty fun. I only got to experience one game on this gametype, and it was pretty low scoring, but my team unanimously agreed that it was because we aren't versed in the gametype and with proper setup knowledge would be able to execute more efficiently. OS seems a little out of place so I want to get a few more games in but it may not be a game breaker. I think the gametype is pretty good.

I haven't played Stasis Assault yet, but I imagine it would fit the role of a lengthy Sanctuary/Pit-style Bomb and would play decent.

Riptide: Riptide is better in so many ways. Weapon layout feels fairly clean, Caster breaks a lot of setups and Riptide is just a map that screams for Camo. Stage feels a lot more powerful and teams definitely have to leave Blue more often which gives more playtime to Top Mid and Orange Street which are better playspaces.

However, the map still suffers from flow in two key areas: Orange to Blue and a needed Entrance to Blue Tree/Dunes. Obviously map geometry isn't going to be altered (despite a hallway from Orange Lift to Blue Gen that literally has two doors that are sealed off... 343, please) so the best solution is teleporters. My suggested spots for teleporters (one-way) are:

Water Room -> Blue Gen
Stage Lift -> Blue Treehouse (Back)

For some more crafty meta you could inverse them, but I have no idea what sort of repercussions this would have on gameplay without testing it.

Water Room -> Blue Treehouse
Stage Lift -> Blue Gen

Not only would this add teleporters to Halo 5's Arena Suite (awesome for spectators!) but it would alleviate two crazy movement flow issues that Riptide has. The remaining issues with the map would be sight lines, which I don't think are horrible to begin with.

I'm on mobile at work and needed something to do so when I get home I'll give my thoughts on Coliseum/Regret/Plaza, etc.

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I'm just gonna list the changes that I like from the new settings since that list is a bit shorter:

 

- Coli: There are a bunch of changes that need to be made for Coli Bomb to be better than current gametypes, but I feel it's the only map that plays bomb well. If bomb gets in, I only hope it's on Coli. Replacing Suppressor with Brute is also a good idea. Adding the collision in Red seems unnecessary unless there is data that suggest one team is winning a disproportionate amount due to the subtle asymmetries.

 

- Rig: Swapping the Frag/Splinter locations is a good idea. Splinters are a power weapon in this game, and the previous grenade layout gave 4 of them to the outside team.

 

- Plaza: I like the way Scatter can be used on Plaza. It is a lot like Rig where the hard corners and lazy cover make bank shots useful. I don't, however, like the placement. I feel like it would be better off in Elevator where Shotty was since it can be put to use more immediately off pickup.

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I just want a map with no power weapons (H3 forge/Midship) I know in H5 it can't be done due to BR/Pistol/Auto balancing issues but I would still like to atleast try it

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I just want a map with know power weapons (H3 forge/Midship) I know in H5 it can't be done due to BR/Pistol/Auto balancing issues but I would still like to atleast try it

 

Why are there still balance issues when the game has been out for almost a year now? I don't understand it. They should have changed the balance at least for arena by now. 

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I just want a map with no power weapons (H3 forge/Midship) I know in H5 it can't be done due to BR/Pistol/Auto balancing issues but I would still like to atleast try it

 

 I think Regret could be this map.

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I think we should talk about Fathom/Stasis CTF as well as overtime/replay rules.

 

After a full season to consider the changes that were made to Fathom in the Spring, I think the only good ones were the location change for Storm and SMG removal. Camo gets burned more often than before and Rail gun takes an extra 5-8 seconds to get into a decent position. Both changes make it considerably more difficult to turn map control into meaningful slays and good flag runs. Splinter grenades in the treehouses just end up punishing the more aggressive player in fights for the area, to the point where you often see players often drop from the top of the map and push through nades rather than push into treehouse and inevitably trade kills or get splintered.

 

Of course, better overtime and/or replay rules could also help with the issue as well as keeping series moving better. I'm still a firm believer in sudden death OT, but we can't do the 15 minute OT rules of old unless the weapon pad items are allowed to spawn in OT. The simple solution, IMO, is to have sudden death on the first replay. Sudden death is more fun to watch anyways.

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SAW on Mercy single-handedly ruins the flow of Slayer on that map. Take it out or reduce the ammo capacity; It creates too much of a snowball effect as it currently is.

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