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CyReN

Halo 5: Guardians Arena Gameplay Settings Thread

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Key difference though:

 

- Pulling out the knife is barely a speed boost compared to the pistols

- CS is a squad shooter with instant kill times

- The knife is only used at the start of a round or to retake a site, switching to the knife and back also takes was longer than getting in/out of sprint in CoD/H5/other military FPS

- you literally never see anyone use the knife as an get-out-of-jail card

 

Neither the games nor the mechanics are comparable

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Key difference though:

 

- Pulling out the knife is barely a speed boost compared to the pistols

- CS is a squad shooter with instant kill times

- The knife is only used at the start of a round or to retake a site, switching to the knife and back also takes was longer than getting in/out of sprint in CoD/H5/other military FPS

- you literally never see anyone use the knife as an get-out-of-jail card

 

Neither the games nor the mechanics are comparable

Not a large boost in comparison to pistols, but it's significant when compared to rifles, the weapons you're going to have the majority of the time.

Your other points have nothing to do with the argument. The games aren't comparable, but the knife is sprinting in the strictest sense. It even has a lengthy delay before you're able to shoot again.

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Question that I've never really put much thought into:

What's the significance of 5 vs 8 seconds respawns for Slayer?

 

I understand both angles when relating 8 vs 10 seconds to Objective games, but the Slayer one doesn't seem very clear to me.

 

Yeah, 8 second respawn can make slayer snowbally as hell, especially on symmetrical maps like Truth and Regret.  Regret is probably the best example.  That 8 second respawn lets you collapse on the spawning team so easily.  I was watching Towey talk about an EG- CLG match (From Worlds i believe?) where the score was tight through the mid-20's, then CLG was able to get them caught in a bad spawn cycle.  EG had just collapsed on CLG and killed 3 players except snakebite.  Snakebite was able to stay alive in the base for so long drawing EGs attention that CLG took top mid control, and just collapsed on EG back and forth destroying them for the rest of the match because it takes so long to respawn.  If the spawns were 5 seconds for slayer, it's more likely that EG would have been able to recover and make the match more competitive (and more fun to watch/play as a result).

 

It is also entirely possible that a 5 second respawn could make slayer a sloppy clusterfuck.

 

I wish i didnt have a full-time job myself so that i could run a ton of customs with modified settings:

 

No radar

5 second slayer/10 second objective re-spawns

no AR start

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if it's not sprint then what is it? LOL

 

it is 100% sprint

 

your definition of sprint as a game mechanic is incorrect

 

http://www.giantbomb.com/sprinting/3015-603/

 

anyways, this is where i bow out, if you can't even agree that knife = sprint then i'd rather not waste any more of my time on you

I've never heard anyone refer to moving quickly sideways or backwards as sprinting lol.

 

Switching to knife in CS is similar to sprint, but it is not sprint.

 

Again, if h5 did not have sprint and the sword gave you a bump up in speed while used nobody would refer to that as sprint. Same goes for the speed boost power up.

 

Hell by your logic switching to an smg in COD while not sprinting is...sprinting?

 

Off topic- why do you struggle so much with people thinking differently than you? You get frustrated so easily. Chill out dude. Maybe go take a walk or something if Halo discussions are freaking you out so much.

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Um, no? That isn't one of sprint's key issues at all. A sprint that lets you run in literally any direction would spark an even bigger shitstorm than what we have right now.

So you're saying if Halo used CS's movement system halo fans would freak out?

 

Well, how could that be?!? By moses' logic they're the same thing.

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if it's not sprint then what is it? LOL

 

it is 100% sprint

 

your definition of sprint as a game mechanic is incorrect 

 

http://www.giantbomb.com/sprinting/3015-603/

 

anyways, this is where i bow out, if you can't even agree that knife = sprint then i'd rather not waste any more of my time on you

 

 

Sprinting is usually characterized by its fast movement speed at the cost of finesse moving, often causing a wider turning radius

You can move quickly in any direction. That's not the same as sprint. Sprint limits mobility in all directions but directly forwards. That is one of its key issues.

I'd say coopers view on videogame sprinting is quite similar to your fancy internet definition...

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I'd say coopers view on videogame sprinting is quite similar to your fancy internet definition...

 

keyword usually

 

 

Sprinting in games is the movement upgrade to the standard run. While running usually requires a simple push of the analog stick or directional pad to its furthest radius in order to execute, sprinting usually requires an additional buttton press to initiate. Sprinting is usually characterized by its fast movement speed at the cost of finesse moving, often causing a wider turning radius, not to mention many games add a moment of fatigue which can slow down or immobilize the player following a long period of sprinting. This provides a crucial amount of strategy and trade-offs when a player decides to sprint.

 

Although sprinting is often limited to a short period of time, some games allow for indefinite sprinting (Super Mario Bros., Spider Man 2), some games have exploits that allow players to sprint indefinitely where otherwise it would be impossible. A prime example of this is the Grand Theft Auto franchise where holding a button allows for sprinting, but if one taps the button repeatedly instead of holding it allows for the player to sprint essentially forever without feeling the normal fatigue effects implemented.

 

Sprinting is not to be confused with another video game maneuver, Dashing, which usually only allows for a small burst of speed forward, and can be executed repeatedly in quick succession.

 

the entire definition 

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if you don't think the knife in csgo is a sprint mechanic then i can't in good conscious continue this discussion with you

 

 

for my own sanity 

You don't rely on it. It's relatively minor. An equivalent mechanic with a similar speed boost wouldn't wreck Halo, although the putting-away of your gun might.

 

It's not sprint.

 

EDIT: also, it's omnidirectional.

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You don't rely on it. It's relatively minor. An equivalent mechanic with a similar speed boost wouldn't wreck Halo, although the putting-away of your gun might.

 

It's not sprint.

oh okay so it's not sprint because 'you don't rely on it' and because 'it's relatively minor'

 

my mistake 

 

 

(even though it is not at all relatively minor and you do rely on it but k (not that it even matters lol))

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keyword usually

 

 

the entire definition 

so the entire reason behind posting this definition that mostly undermines your point was that it used "usually"?

but even if you ignore the parts with usually that only represents what the mayority of people understand as *sprinting*, don't you start with a knife in CS? Therefor shouldn't knife-speed be considered "standard run" and? And wouldn't that mean that there is still no sprint in CS because there is no way to pull off an action that results in an "movement upgrade to the standard run"

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so the entire reason behind posting this definition that mostly undermines your point was that it used "usually"?

 

>Sprinting in games is the movement upgrade to the standard run.

 

pure, plain, and simple

 

 

 

but even if you ignore the parts with usually that only represents what the mayority of people understand as *sprinting*, don't you start with a knife in CS? Therefor shouldn't knife-speed be considered "standard run" and? And wouldn't that mean that there is still no sprint in CS because there is no way to pull off an action that results in an "movement upgrade to the standard run"

no

 

have you ever even played counter strike before? honestly, because it sounds like you haven't

 

let me break it down for you, there is:

 

knife run / c4 run

standard running 

walking (

crouch walking 

 

 

if you don't believe me because you've never played cs before go look up the weapon run values 

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no

 

have you ever even played counter strike before? honestly, because it sounds like you haven't

 

if you don't believe me because you've never played cs before go look up the weapon run values 

tbh, I haven't in ages and I've never played it a lot so excuse my wonky momories 

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>Sprinting in games is the movement upgrade to the standard run.

 

pure, plain, and simple

 

no

 

have you ever even played counter strike before? honestly, because it sounds like you haven't

 

let me break it down for you, there is:

 

knife run / c4 run

standard running

walking (

crouch walking

 

Distance

if you don't believe me because you've never played cs before go look up the weapon run values

Look you just listed it off as "knife run" not sprint. Nobody has ever called it sprint. Ever. Not even you.

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Look you just listed it off as "knife run" not sprint. Nobody has ever called it sprint. Ever. Not even you.

and? it functions as sprint

 

"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" 

 

 

it could be called 'dipsy doodle run' and it would still be sprint

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Il never stop complaining about sprint in halo. Not until it is removed. I hope others feel the same way. I hope the most constant feedback 343 sees is anti sprint.

 

Nobody is forcing you to read anything.

The problem is not me never wanting to see a Sprint debate again.

 

The problem is people aren't expanding the debate to other forums. Keeping all of it here isn't benefiting anyone, not even the group who continues to uphold the conversation. If you're set on keeping up this debate, then broaden your horizons. Expect lots of adversaries, but push onward.

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The difference knife makes to speed is negligible. 

The difference sprint makes to speed in H5 is negligible.

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Did somebody say SEMANTICS?

 

 

The difference knife makes to speed is negligible. 

 

Yeah, uhhh, no. 

 

>Sprinting in games is the movement upgrade to the standard run.

 

pure, plain, and simple

 

no

 

have you ever even played counter strike before? honestly, because it sounds like you haven't

 

let me break it down for you, there is:

 

knife run / c4 run

standard running 

walking (

crouch walking 

 

 

if you don't believe me because you've never played cs before go look up the weapon run values 

 

Wait, I'm confused. So if having your knife out is equivalent to sprinting, what about when you're using the Schmidt in the older games? Are you walking faster than you can sprint? What about pistol running in RC? Yes, you could use the pistol to kill people, but using it is like trying to fend off a firing squad with a small rock. Is it effectively sprint as well, despite being able to fire?

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It's mostly aesthetics. Neither sprint nor no-sprint is "aesthetically-neutral" in Halo - they're both active positions. Sprint contributes to the emotions/aesthetics of a "controlled" or "mechanical" feel, and no-sprint contributes to the emotions/aesthetics of "punishing to the senses yet smooth and rewarding, sludge, constant hustle". They can both require skill-building, but our physical and emotional reactions will be different in response to the two.

 

It's impossible to encapsulate either subjective phenomenological experience in words, especially written. (We probably shouldn't say "subjective" since it suggests "it's just up to you!" or that there's no objective better way to do it.) Both aesthetics are extremely addictive, beautiful and rewarding, and you can't just dismiss them because I can't really describe them well.

 

So sprint is not a balance issue.

 

Let me repeat that: sprint is not, and has never been, a balance issue.

 

You can balance out sprint as much as you like, you can change it into an omnidirectional weapons-up glide mechanic, you can change it into a fucking jetpack if you want, but the core issue is the fact that Halo gameplay is, and has always been, 99% aesthetics. There may be less or more or the same amount of skill involved, but the application of skill itself is going to be brought into gameplay in one of several of these emotional-aesthetic types. The internal experience will not be the same. The personal experience of the application of skill between New Halo and Classic Halo are fundamentally different and irreconcilable.

 

So regardless of "skill", New Halo bears no resemblance to Classic Halo by these standards. A competitive Classic Halo fan will never enjoy sprint in any of its incarnations, unless it's in another game. If you can adjust the rest of New Halo to make make it feel like Halo 3 in spite of having sprint, then it will be accepted by every competitive player. But that's highly unlikely and may be impossible.

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The difference knife makes to speed is negligible. 

10% for the M4A4, 12% for the AK-47, 20% for the AWP.

 

It's a pretty big difference.

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10% for the M4A4, 12% for the AK-47, 20% for the AWP.

 

It's a pretty big difference.

Quick kills. Sprint made Halo 4 SWAT incredible IMO.

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Quick kills. Sprint made Halo 4 SWAT incredible IMO.

Don't really care. I'm just here to disprove a false claim.

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and? it functions as sprint

 

"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet"

 

 

it could be called 'dipsy doodle run' and it would still be sprint

It doesn't function like sprint. It functions like a speed boost given off by a light weapon. Something all kinds of games, including h5 do. It's a different mechanic.

 

That's why no one calls it sprint

 

If I go into custom games in H5, DISABLE SPRINT and make starting weapons pistol and sword that there is a no sprint gametype. When the player switches to sword in game, he is not sprinting. He's just receiving the speed boost that is associated with the sword.

 

You're wrong. Can we move past this now.

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The problem is not me never wanting to see a Sprint debate again.

 

The problem is people aren't expanding the debate to other forums. Keeping all of it here isn't benefiting anyone, not even the group who continues to uphold the conversation. If you're set on keeping up this debate, then broaden your horizons. Expect lots of adversaries, but push onward.

There's like a 5000 reply sprint thread on Waypoint right now.

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It doesn't function like sprint. It functions like a speed boost given off by a light weapon. Something all kinds of games, including h5 do. It's a different mechanic.

 

That's why no one calls it sprint

 

If I go into custom games in H5, DISABLE SPRINT and make starting weapons pistol and sword that there is a no sprint gametype. When the player switches to sword in game, he is not sprinting. He's just receiving the speed boost that is associated with the sword.

 

You're wrong. Can we move past this now.

The Sword is a fucking power weapon.

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