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Halo 5: Guardians Arena Gameplay Settings Thread

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I think having an ability that cools down through death is too good of an idea to waste on trying to nerf radar. 

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Having a major blast playing through these maps, both with or without a team. Noticing that more people are gradually learning the Ghost Jump strat; had to watch where the enemy was going more than I had to check the Radar. This is going somewhere, and I'm liking it.

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So is tomorrow the last day of the preview period? Or does it go all the way to the 23rd? 

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So is tomorrow the last day of the preview period? Or does it go all the way to the 23rd? 

 

 

Everything gets locked in universally some time on the 23rd

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Everything gets locked in universally some time on the 23rd

Ok got it. Wasn't the 20th a significant date for some reason in regards to the playlist or am I crazy?  

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Ok got it. Wasn't the 20th a significant date for some reason in regards to the playlist or am I crazy?  

 

 

Yeah I just re-read the schedule and it says Preview ends on the 20th, I don't know what that means. Maybe they stop taking in feedback or that is the final call with the Pros or something. We'll see, everything should still change on the 23rd

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Yeah I just re-read the schedule and it says Preview ends on the 20th, I don't know what that means. Maybe they stop taking in feedback or that is the final call with the Pros or something. We'll see, everything should still change on the 23rd

 

Alright, thanks. The 20th-23rd could be pretty interesting. They basically left themselves open to be able to do whatever they want. That's pretty scary lol

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snip

 

^This post is so fucking good.^  @@Sal1ent @@Deez, please...  (click the arrow in the top right of the quote box)

 

why the fuck does the BR and snipe have so much magnetism. I can literally put the controller to my ass and still manage a kill with it.

 

Literally, huh? Well I hope you washed your hands.

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^This post is so fucking good.^  @@Sal1ent @@Deez, please...  (click the arrow in the top right of the quote box)

 

thx bb

 

(Quinn actually picked this suggestion out of a large amount of posts on Waypoint, so the idea has definitely circulated at the least. At best, we could see a radical change later on in H5's lifespan as a big meta shift. At worst, we might get a system like this in a later Halo installment)

 

It'd definitely need a lot of tweaking and refining but I think it's definitely worth testing in a sandbox like H5's.

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Still waiting for anybody who supports radar to explain why they think it is good for this game. I expect I will be waiting for a long time.

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Still waiting for anybody who supports radar to explain why they think it is good for this game. I expect I will be waiting for a long time.

I know that saying anything in favor of radar is a massive blow to street cred around here, so I'll preface this by saying that, in the abstract, I personally don't prefer radar in  competitive Halo. I've been playing Halo under MLG settings since 2004, and think radar discourages flanking and escape movements that aren't really viable with radar. 

 

That said... 

 

A couple months after the game released, I opened an /r/halo thread titled something like "complaints about radar". I clicked on it expecting to see people asking for radar to be removed. Instead, almost all of the posts were bemoaning that the radius of Halo 5's radar is too small

 

From a bottom line perspective, the HCS is a marketing tool for Halo. They want something that appeals to the masses. Perhaps you recall, but back in the Halo 2 days, the average player didn't like MLG's settings. There's always some population resistance when competitive settings highly deviate from competitive settings. (http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/3-keys-to-a-great-competitive-game)

 

The eSports that have really caught on (CS: GO, LOL, DOTA, SC2 for a while...) have a pretty seemless transition from casual player to competitive player. Halo finally has this dynamic, and while I don't think radar is perfect, I think Halo 5 plays quite well on the whole, even with radar. 

 

Halo as a franchise has been damaged by flops like Halo 4, but I really think 343 is on the right track here. 

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I know that saying anything in favor of radar is a massive blow to street cred around here, so I'll preface this by saying that, in the abstract, I personally don't prefer radar in  competitive Halo. I've been playing Halo under MLG settings since 2004, and think radar discourages flanking and escape movements that aren't really viable with radar. 

 

That said... 

 

A couple months after the game released, I opened an /r/halo thread titled something like "complaints about radar". I clicked on it expecting to see people asking for radar to be removed. Instead, almost all of the posts were bemoaning that the radius of Halo 5's radar is too small

 

From a bottom line perspective, the HCS is a marketing tool for Halo. They want something that appeals to the masses. Perhaps you recall, but back in the Halo 2 days, the average player didn't like MLG's settings. There's always some population resistance when competitive settings highly deviate from competitive settings. (http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/3-keys-to-a-great-competitive-game)

 

The eSports that have really caught on (CS: GO, LOL, DOTA, SC2 for a while...) have a pretty seemless transition from casual player to competitive player. Halo finally has this dynamic, and while I don't think radar is perfect, I think Halo 5 plays quite well on the whole, even with radar. 

 

Halo as a franchise has been damaged by flops like Halo 4, but I really think 343 is on the right track here. 

If 343 wants competitive play and casual(social) play to use universal settings so it's easier for newcomers to transition to competitive play then they need to fully optimize the default(vanilla) settings for competitive play, they need to prioritize optimizing the default settings for competitive play. Compromising the merit/integrity of the competitive settings is unacceptable. Forcing players to use compromised settings for competitive play just alienates the players that actually care about the game being fully optimized for competitive play and makes them want to search for better games that actually have competitive merit to them so they can satisfy their competitive itch.

 

Due to Halo 5's competitive settings not being fully optimized for competitive play I highly doubt that there would be much of an interest in playing Halo 5 competitively if 343/Microsoft weren't pumping tons of money into Esports. Meanwhile there's still people to this very day that are interested in playing Halo 1 competitively despite the game being 15 years old and not having any developer support. People are still playing Halo 1 competitively because the game has competitive merit to it and the competitive settings aren't being controlled by the developer. http://teambeyond.net/forum/topic/13065-beach-lan-5-tournament-august-6th-13th/

 

Unfortunately I don't see Halo 5 having much of a life span. Assuming that 343 is going to support Esports for Halo 6 just like they are doing for Halo 5 I guarantee that most people that are currently playing Halo 5 competitively will just jump ship to Halo 6 when it comes out or they will just move on to different games. The only way to use uncompromised settings that are fully optimized for competitive play in Halo 5 is by finding people that want to play similar settings to what you want to play and organize custom games which is inconvenient to do. What would give Halo 5 longevity is an in game custom game browser and a proper in game file browser, these two features would allow players to conveniently play the game the way they prefer to do so and it would allow for UGC to flourish. If Halo 5 had a in game custom game browser it would allow for me to conveniently play settings like this that are fully optimized for competitive play. http://teambeyond.net/forum/topic/11991-halo-5-gold-pro-test-1-settings-now-available/

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I had a long post written out, but I'll try to boil it down. Firstly, I agree with a lot of your points, the game should ideally be well suited for competitive play. There should also be a smooth transition from newcomer to competitive player. 

 

Part of the onus here lies with Bungie. Halo 2, the first mainstream online Halo title (XBC and Halo PC notwithstanding) launched with absolutely garbage multiplayer settings. Radar, spray-and-pray, loads of awful, easily-campable maps. There was a competitive potential, but the community really had to find it. But it kind of set the expectation. The community has come to expect radar, but what is the smooth transition from radar to no radar? A smaller radius radar perhaps?

 

Halo 5 is still a skill intensive game. CLG serves as evidence of as much. But we also see with something like CS:GO a large demand for high-skill ceiling, radarless gameplay. 

 

Anyways, I think 343 is in a tough spot, because they've inherited a community with certain expectations. I think Halo 5 has by far the best "default" online multiplayer settings, and the smaller radar does represent a compromise of sorts.

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Not a fan of BRs on Regret (on paper). Going to try to get it in MM right now but that map doesn't need that weapon.

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So they reverted most of the major changes after talking to the pros? Why am I not surprised...

 

 

I have a feeling a lot of pros are going to oppose any changes to the meta because that's going to require them to relearn all their strats and openings which they've been using for the past 6 or so months.

 
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So they reverted most of the major changes after talking to the pros? Why am I not surprised...

 

 

It's super disappointing. Stuff like the OS on Plaza could have been an interesting game that required people to fully move around the map. Posters is one of the strongest locations for Slayer and moving the OS to Pillar barely does anything. If anything, it makes it even easier to burn OS than before at Top Mid.

 

Regret DMR Removal/Boltshot placement is pretty good but with the removal of Fuel Rod and reduction of Storm Rifles, I don't see the need for BRs on that map.

 

If we are going to essentially revert Eden all the way back to its original format, we might as well move the Powerups back to their original locations to maintain the maps asymmetry. 

 

Coliseum I'm indifferent on but I think this is another perfect example of Pros refusing to adapt to new settings. Royal 2 or someone the other night said "so what do they expect me to do with Snipe. Rotate it all the way across the map to cave?" This drove me up the wall. The ideal strategy on Coliseum was to bring Snipe to Cave and spawn trap Elbow, and that was BECAUSE of where it was placed (Green Tower). The fact that the pros refused to try to optimize the new layout in new and creative ways before asking 343 to revert just drives me insane. Who knows? Maybe Sniping at Elbow would have become even more optimal than Cave sniping.

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It's super disappointing. Stuff like the OS on Plaza could have been an interesting game that required people to fully move around the map. Posters is one of the strongest locations for Slayer and moving the OS to Pillar barely does anything. If anything, it makes it even easier to burn OS than before at Top Mid.

 

Regret DMR Removal/Boltshot placement is pretty good but with the removal of Fuel Rod and reduction of Storm Rifles, I don't see the need for BRs on that map.

 

If we are going to essentially revert Eden all the way back to its original format, we might as well move the Powerups back to their original locations to maintain the maps asymmetry. 

 

Coliseum I'm indifferent on but I think this is another perfect example of Pros refusing to adapt to new settings. Royal 2 or someone the other night said "so what do they expect me to do with Snipe. Rotate it all the way across the map to cave?" This drove me up the wall. The ideal strategy on Coliseum was to bring Snipe to Cave and spawn trap Elbow, and that was BECAUSE of where it was placed (Green Tower). The fact that the pros refused to try to optimize the new layout in new and creative ways before asking 343 to revert just drives me insane. Who knows? Maybe Sniping at Elbow would have become even more optimal than Cave sniping.

100%

 

CLG is obviously going to be entirely against any change because they have the current meta on lock down. Major changes might just mean other teams can gain a slight edge.

 

It's a shame because it's not just the HCS this is affecting, these decisions are directly affecting our experience in Team Arena as well. I feel like 343 should have stuck to their guns on some of the changes because I was loving the freshness in Team Arena...

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100%

 

CLG is obviously going to be entirely against any change because they have the current meta on lock down. Major changes might just mean other teams can gain a slight edge.

 

It's a shame because it's not just the HCS this is affecting, these decisions are directly affecting our experience in Team Arena as well. I feel like 343 should have stuck to their guns on some of the changes because I was loving the freshness in Team Arena...

 

 

I'd be okay with reverting everything if the pros were open to playing Tyrant/Stasis, but it looks like they'll be refuting that possibility as well.

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I'd be okay with reverting everything if the pros were open to playing Tyrant/Stasis, but it looks like they'll be refuting that possibility as well.

Seriously? Where have they said this?

 

That would massively suck if they removed Tyrant and Stasis from Team Arena. They're both solid maps IMO.

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100%

 

CLG is obviously going to be entirely against any change because they have the current meta on lock down. Major changes might just mean other teams can gain a slight edge.

 

It's a shame because it's not just the HCS this is affecting, these decisions are directly affecting our experience in Team Arena as well. I feel like 343 should have stuck to their guns on some of the changes because I was loving the freshness in Team Arena...

I have no dog in this fight, but I'm surprised other pros didn't push for changes if nothing else to try to break up CLG's dominance.  The less the meta changes, the harder it is to dethrone them.

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Posted this in the HCS thread but it's more appropriate here:

 

Honestly, the HCS gametype rotation and map weapon layouts just happen to be pretty good. There are not many major flaws (I'm looking at you, Empire Strongholds). It hasn't been this good since Halo 3. That's why most of the more major changes are reverting back.

 

Typically, in this situation, change for the sake of freshness comes in the form of new maps/gametypes. Unfortunately all but one of the maps (Stasis, which is pretty good) that we've received in DLC have been at best bad and at worst plain garbage. Plus, 343 seems unwilling to put a forge map into the HCS rotation so far, so we're limited to only a couple new options. Not to mention the horrible iteration of Assault that we've received. If Assault's problems were ironed out, it'd help the dilemma a good bit.

 

Ideally we could find a way to add a few gametypes and remove 1 or 2 of the worst ones, while keeping the power weapon and stronghold layouts of our strongest maps the same. That's how I feel change is best enacted- not switching power weapon locations for no reason other than "freshness".

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I'd hate to be 343i. They really are between a rock and a hard place with everything they do.

 

Having this testing period with new setting was a very progressive thing to do. Can't think of many devs would would aim to receive this kind of feedback so, hats off.

 

I think some of the changes they attempted would have lead to some interesting meta shifts if given the opportunity. Unfortunately it seems like the pros are reluctant to accept change, or even evaluate it without bias. I wonder how they weighted casual/pro/viewer feedback.

 

Also, tyrant and stasis are good maps. They need to be in rotation. Assualt needs to be tweaked in favor of offense, and thrown into rotation as well.

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Posted this in the HCS thread but it's more appropriate here:

 

Honestly, the HCS gametype rotation and map weapon layouts just happen to be pretty good. There are not many major flaws (I'm looking at you, Empire Strongholds). It hasn't been this good since Halo 3. That's why most of the more major changes are reverting back.

 

Typically, in this situation, change for the sake of freshness comes in the form of new maps/gametypes. Unfortunately all but one of the maps (Stasis, which is pretty good) that we've received in DLC have been at best bad and at worst plain garbage. Plus, 343 seems unwilling to put a forge map into the HCS rotation, so we're limited to only a couple new options. Not to mention the horrible iteration of Assault that we've received.

 

Ideally we could find a way to add a few gametypes and remove 1 or 2 of the worst ones, while keeping the power weapon and stronghold layouts of our strongest maps the same. That's how I feel change is best enacted- not switching power weapon locations for no reason other than "freshness".

Tyrant is decent as well.

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Tyrant is decent as well.

I think if Assault can work on any map, then it's on Tyrant. The gametype itself still needs some ironing out, though.

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