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Halo 5: Guardians Arena Gameplay Settings Thread

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Audley, you were questioning before in the hcs thread why people would say they want to play competitive halo and then strip it down to "not be halo". You mentioned that it would be scrub-like for us to strip the game down to fit our idea of how it should be played. As I recall, halo 2 in the beginning was primarily smg starts. Do you think that pro matches should have had everyone start with smgs only and scramble to find the limited brs on the map?

 

That is an entirely different argument, it isn't related to the automatic discussion. People want a starting utility weapon in Halo that is competent and can compete with other players off spawn. However, the degree of this competency is what is debated. Should it be hyper-fast CE Pistol times that can eliminate any other weapon? Should it be team-shot heavy style of the weak Halo 3 BR? Should it be in the middle ground like Halo 5 so other weapons have a small leg up? Etc.

 

No one wants a weapon like SMG that promotes snowballing from other map pickups.

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That is an entirely different argument, it isn't related to the automatic discussion. People want a starting utility weapon in Halo that is competent and can compete with other players off spawn. However, the degree of this competency is what is debated. Should it be hyper-fast CE Pistol times that can eliminate any other weapon? Should it be team-shot heavy style of the weak Halo 3 BR? Should it be in the middle ground like Halo 5 so other weapons have a small leg up? Etc.

 

No one wants a weapon like SMG that promotes snowballing from other map pickups.

I'm talking about a post he made in the pro thread where he specifically said that we shouldn't change halo and that it would be scrub-like to change it to fit our vision of competitiveness. I'm trying to see how far he's willing to take that logic

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I'm talking about a post he made in the pro thread where he specifically said that we shouldn't change halo and that it would be scrub-like to change it to fit our vision of competitiveness. I'm trying to see how far he's willing to take that logic

Then quote the post?

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For cookies4you

 

I would defend automatics (their existence, not their balance) in competitive Halo as well if I were in his position.  Automatics, for better or worse, are part of Halo.  When you remove them from the game, you are bending the rules to your vision.

 

Instead of thinking of automatics as "easy mode kills" and "less skilled weapons" think of them as slower kill time shotguns with extra counterplay on the side of the player being attacked.  Because most of the time, if you're out of close range, the automatic loses the battle to the pistol user anyway.  Likewise, they are also weapons that reward superior positioning, rather than superior gunskill.

 

I think it's absurd to reward only players with good gunskill and completely shun players with fantastic route taking who have weaker gunskill.  Because the ability to fire a gun straight is not the only skill existent in Halo.  Allowing weapons like automatics and boltshots and Hydras and Plasma Casters to exist in the sandbox allows players to find a more intelligent approach to the game and still win without necessarily having to have the best ability to move their thumbs.

 

If you want the game to be only about a player's ability to put a pistol reticule over a player's head and shoot 5 times better than the other player's ability to do the same, you are dumbing down an otherwise diverse game and reducing the potential diversity and player pool just to fit your own definition of skill.

 

You're shunning players like me who can't aim but still find ways to win games.  I've generally gravitated away from the competitive playlists in the past because default Halo is more enjoyable.  And if you're talking about competitive Halo, why are you not playing competitive Halo, but rather a stripped down version of the game that rewards your own idea of the game?  David Sirlin has a term for those kind of people.  It's scrub.

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Note the last paragraph in particular and also the first paragraph

 

 

Also note how he says that not having autos "reward only players with good gunskill and completely shun players with fantastic route taking who have weaker gunskill". Obviously an absurd thing to say as a pistol user with a terrible shot can often win an engagement with a pistol user with a better shot if the player with poor accuracy is using smarter positioning

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Audley, you were questioning before in the hcs thread why people would say they want to play competitive halo and then strip it down to "not be halo". You mentioned that it would be scrub-like for us to strip the game down to fit our idea of how it should be played. As I recall, halo 2 in the beginning was primarily smg starts. Do you think that pro matches should have had everyone start with smgs only and scramble to find the limited brs on the map?

 

I've said before Bungie's weapon placement in H2 was the main reason SMG starts were trash.

 

Lockout's BRs were at the top of BR tower and top of lift...aka high ground positions.  So once you picked them up, you had no incentive to move.  And if you were dead and spawning low, you had no way to get to them safely.  If they'd instead spawned at Elbow and bottom BR tower, it would've served to be less of a snowball and less problematic for the game.

 

Granted, the SMG was still a trash weapon and should've been balanced better, but if not for the poor weapon layouts, it wouldn't have been AS problematic as it was in the game.

 

I think the weapons should've been balanced better ;)

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I dont post much, but I think it is important to keep a diverse competitive playlist, so people can try new gametypes as well as get into some competitive settings.

 

My idea for the Arena Playlist in general, is keep the gametypes and options like the current playlist we have, with a mix of HCS and Non HCS Gametypes...however add a VETO option like in Halo 3, where if a majority (5/8) vetos the first map (randomly generated could either be HCS or Non HCS Gametype) that the next map chosen after the VETO will always be a randomized HCS Gametype. 

 

This does a couple things...

1. Teams trying to run games in playlist can make sure almost everytime they will play an HCS gametype (obviously there will be times you could get stuck with a gametype you dont want to play if people dont vote or what not but im confident that if you are playing at a certain level (diamond, onyx+ that you shouldnt have a problem getting the vetos to change to an HCS gametype)

2. It will keep the playlist population saturated rather than spreading players over 2 or 3 different added playlists (which they already have a hard time adding playlists)

3. It will give 343 value data on which gametpes people like (play the most) or veto the most (not sure if they can track which gametypes people dodge currently??) 

4. Based on that data they can remove the 1-2 gametypes that are the most vetod/least liked season to season and replace them with the monthly new map, and new gametypes.  Essentially this is like a built in gametype testing playlist

 

Please reply with thoughts... a solution that includes everyone and help develop future gametypes and settings? no brainer to me

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I've said before Bungie's weapon placement in H2 was the main reason SMG starts were trash.

 

Lockout's BRs were at the top of BR tower and top of lift...aka high ground positions. So once you picked them up, you had no incentive to move. And if you were dead and spawning low, you had no way to get to them safely. If they'd instead spawned at Elbow and bottom BR tower, it would've served to be less of a snowball and less problematic for the game.

 

Granted, the SMG was still a trash weapon and should've been balanced better, but if not for the poor weapon layouts, it wouldn't have been AS problematic as it was in the game.

 

I think the weapons should've been balanced better ;)

Yes, but since they wasn't balanced better should we have played on these settings since they were closer to the original game?

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I've said before Bungie's weapon placement in H2 was the main reason SMG starts were trash.

 

Lockout's BRs were at the top of BR tower and top of lift...aka high ground positions. So once you picked them up, you had no incentive to move. And if you were dead and spawning low, you had no way to get to them safely. If they'd instead spawned at Elbow and bottom BR tower, it would've served to be less of a snowball and less problematic for the game.

 

Granted, the SMG was still a trash weapon and should've been balanced better, but if not for the poor weapon layouts, it wouldn't have been AS problematic as it was in the game.

 

I think the weapons should've been balanced better ;)

Spawning people with a weak weapon will make a game snowbally no matter what, even if better weapons (which shouldn't even exist outside of powe weapons) are placed in better spots.

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Just need somewhere to vent real quick.

 

Let myself fall into arguing about h5 settings and skill gaps on r/halo and when I mentioned halo 1 as having a large skill gap someone told me "halo 1 didn't have a skill gap because it didn't have a competitive scene."  

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Just need somewhere to vent real quick.

 

Let myself fall into arguing about h5 settings and skill gaps on r/halo and when I mentioned halo 1 as having a large skill gap someone told me "halo 1 didn't have a skill gap because it didn't have a competitive scene."

To be fair, Halo 1's comp scene is by and large under the radar for even a lot of old school halo fans. I'm not sure who said it here, but basically 95% of people who played H1 ever don't even know what a double melee is versus the bigger percentage of comp H2 and H3 players because it was more advertised.

 

Halo 1 2v2's are not even a thing to most people, not to mention people basically hate Halo now and consider it as cancerous and easy as COD now. Its looked at with certain condescension, especially with how people judge the pistol.

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Also, can anyone explain the hatred for Assault in the HCS? I understand its not "official" and all, but at the same time, I think it functions well and gives us another gamemode rather than just strongholds, slayer, and flag.

 

Now get oddball in there too and we good.

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Also, can anyone explain the hatred for Assault in the HCS? I understand its not "official" and all, but at the same time, I think it functions well and gives us another gamemode rather than just strongholds, slayer, and flag.

 

Now get oddball in there too and we good.

You are required to kill the other team on 2-3 spawn cycles to get an arm. No exceptions. It's too hard to score, to put it simply. I believe there was info some time ago about how Assault games on average lasted significantly longer than other gametypes, and a much larger proportion of them went into overtime.

 

It's fine if you like stalemates, I guess. But it could definitely use some adjustments.

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You are required to kill the other team on 2-3 spawn cycles to get an arm. No exceptions. It's too hard to score, to put it simply. I believe there was info some time ago about how Assault games on average lasted significantly longer than other gametypes, and a much larger proportion of them went into overtime.

 

It's fine if you like stalemates, I guess. But it could definitely use some adjustments.

I feel you...not to mention respawn times are 8 seconds instead of 10

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I think it functions well.

 

I think this is why you don't understand the complaints. It goes to the time limit almost every game, has more ties than ever before, and generally plays like a worse (and more susceptible to flukes) version of flag. 1-hit beatdown combined with double-thrust is a bit of overkill in terms of empowering the ball-carrier as well. I'd suggest removing the 1-hit beatdowns, adding some throw-distance so the bomb can be moved in a bit faster, and removing the ability to instantly reset the timer by touching the ball (instead have it decay like it does when it's taken out of the arm zone).

 

As someone who likes bomb in other Halo games, forcing it's current iteration into the settings would give it a bad rap in the future.

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I think this is why you don't understand the complaints. It goes to the time limit almost every game, has more ties than ever before, and generally plays like a worse (and more susceptible to flukes) version of flag. 1-hit beatdown combined with double-thrust is a bit of overkill in terms of empowering the ball-carrier as well. I'd suggest removing the 1-hit beatdowns, adding some throw-distance so the bomb can be moved in a bit faster, and removing the ability to instantly reset the timer by touching the ball (instead have it decay like it does when it's taken out of the arm zone).

 

As someone who likes bomb in other Halo games, forcing it's current iteration into the settings would give it a bad rap in the future.

Hmm? Me saying I think it functions well does not mean I don't understand complaints, it means I personally enjoy playing it.

 

I find the double thrust to be a non issue as it gives the ball carrier some room to maneuver, but one hit melee is a big no no I agree. As for throwing, pls no. Don't think it has any place in competitive Halo, especially after Oddball throwing.

 

I will agree though the ridiculousness of arming is annoying. 8 second respawns and long arm times turn planting into a shit show that usually forces the game into overtime and/or ties

 

What do you mean instantly resetting it? I thought it only reset once it is picked up and out of the zone. I don't see that as a problem.

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the ability to instantly reset the timer by touching the ball (instead have it decay like it does when it's taken out of the arm zone).

Is this even possible with current settings? I don't see an option for it.

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Hmm? Me saying I think it functions well does not mean I don't understand complaints, it means I personally enjoy playing it.

 

I find the double thrust to be a non issue as it gives the ball carrier some room to maneuver, but one hit melee is a big no no I agree. As for throwing, pls no. Don't think it has any place in competitive Halo, especially after Oddball throwing.

 

I will agree though the ridiculousness of arming is annoying. 8 second respawns and long arm times turn planting into a shit show that usually forces the game into overtime and/or ties

 

What do you mean instantly resetting it? I thought it only reset once it is picked up and out of the zone. I don't see that as a problem.

 

It resets as soon as it's picked up, regardless of whether it gets out of the arm zone or not.

 

Is this even possible with current settings? I don't see an option for it.

 

BRAVOpls

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It resets as soon as it's picked up, regardless of whether it gets out of the arm zone or not.

 

What the shit I get so worried about it getting out of the zone for nothing...yeah. Assault needs some rethinking but it has tons of potential on some maps. Personally love Tyrant and Regret Assault

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Bomb Thoughts.

 

I don't mind double thrust or carrier movement speed (thrust power could be reduced slightly), but instant melee is pretty gimmicky. As for maps, the small maps allow more flexible spawning for the Defenders without completely making it impossible to stop an incoming push, whereas large maps offer a lot more offensive meta but punish Defenders with spawns that are just too far away. It's a double edged sword but I think some maps find a decent middle ground.

 

As some have said, you need to get a fresh 3-4 dead before you can really get an arm. I like the Defensive pickup-reset because it discourage 'desperate' objective attempts, which I'm not a fan of in Halo, but I do agree that Offense can be pretty difficult when having to cycle 2-3 spawns before you can finish and arm. Simple solution to this in my opinion would be lowering time required to arm slightly. Even just 1 second could help speed up games to completion.

 

Good Maps IMO:

  • Truth
  • Regret (Refresh?)
  • Empire Refresh (barring Shotgun, still don't think it belongs in that map, or Arena at all)

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You know, there weren't a lot of things that Halo 4 did right, but the Assault Rifle was one of them.  Halo 4 had the best balanced AR in the series (h1 quick camo and double melee not withstanding).  If we could just pluck the H4 AR from that game and paste it right into Halo 5, we would be in such a better place.

 

Take the aiming too, while you're at it.

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Bomb Thoughts.

 

I don't mind double thrust or carrier movement speed (thrust power could be reduced slightly), but instant melee is pretty gimmicky. As for maps, the small maps allow more flexible spawning for the Defenders without completely making it impossible to stop an incoming push, whereas large maps offer a lot more offensive meta but punish Defenders with spawns that are just too far away. It's a double edged sword but I think some maps find a decent middle ground.

 

As some have said, you need to get a fresh 3-4 dead before you can really get an arm. I like the Defensive pickup-reset because it discourage 'desperate' objective attempts, which I'm not a fan of in Halo, but I do agree that Offense can be pretty difficult when having to cycle 2-3 spawns before you can finish and arm. Simple solution to this in my opinion would be lowering time required to arm slightly. Even just 1 second could help speed up games to completion.

 

Good Maps IMO:

  • Truth
  • Regret (Refresh?)
  • Empire Refresh (barring Shotgun, still don't think it belongs in that map, or Arena at all)

 

 

Proper respawn times would help this mode immensely.  Objective games have 10 second respawns.  This 8 second shit needs to go away forever.  It has a negative effect on the pace of the game for both Slayer and Objective.  It didn't need changed and it shouldn't have been changed.

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Proper respawn times would help this mode immensely.  Objective games have 10 second respawns.  This 8 second shit needs to go away forever.  It has a negative effect on the pace of the game for both Slayer and Objective.  It didn't need changed and it shouldn't have been changed.

 

 

While I'm personally a fan of the universal respawn times, everyone seems to fling that argument around just because "that's how it has always been"

 

If you can actually explain how throwing two extra respawn seconds to Assault will fundamentally fix all the problems I'll buy it, but I genuinely don't see the issue with the current respawn times on any mode. 

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While I'm personally a fan of the universal respawn times, everyone seems to fling that argument around just because "that's how it has always been"

 

If you can actually explain how throwing two extra respawn seconds to Assault will fundamentally fix all the problems I'll buy it, but I genuinely don't see the issue with the current respawn times on any mode. 

It's because players are up too quickly to actually do anything. Most of the time, you have to slay 2 or 3 waves of players before you're able to get into their base for the objective. By the time you manage to kill someone, their teammates are probably already spawning and sprinting into your base to stop and arm or a flag pull.

Maybe sprint will make it so that a 10 second spawn isn't enough, but it can't hurt any more than what we have right now.

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I've picked up the suppressor like 3 times. In what situations would it be beneficial to pick it up over other weapons?

 

I feel like it's the Halo 2 needler. Pretty useless.

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