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Halo 5: Guardians Arena Gameplay Settings Thread

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Well if you're talking about pros know that they want whatever settings allow them the best chance at winning money and lowering the skill gap is one way of doing that.

That would only make sense to me for the lower tier teams that felt like they couldn't beat better teams without radar

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Remove party restrictions

 

lmao :eyes:

 

Wait hold on. REMOVE them?! Can I have what you're smoking thanks.

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Honestly, I believe most people like static timers more purely for nostalgic reasons.

 

 

That's funny because I could say the same thing about the people that want dynamic timers for Halo 5's power-ups solely because Quake and UT have dynamic timers for their items. I'm not blinded by nostalgia, I actually have legitimate reasons for advocating for Halo 5's power-ups to be put on static timers. I didn't start playing Halo CE until MCC came out so you can't say I'm advocating for static timers for purely nostalgic reasons.

 

I'm advocating for Halo 5's power-ups to be put on static timers because I honestly think they're more ideal for Halo than dynamic timers are. Halo isn't a 1v1 arena shooter like Quake and UT are, it's a team shooter that requires all players on both teams to have an equal amount of information of when the power items are spawning in order for certain game types like team slayer to function properly. Since team slayer's flow revolves around cycling through power items on the map, it's important for all players on both teams to have an equal amount of information of when the power items are spawning so both teams can contest each for control of said power item. Having all of the power items on the map be on static timers encourages player movement from both teams in team slayer and discourages player stagnation. Where as dynamic timers for power-ups in team slayer only encourages player movement from the team that knows when the power-up is spawning.

 

Dynamic timers for power-ups promotes snowballing in team slayer with one team having cascading advantages because that one team is always winning a free uncontested power-up because their opponent is unaware of when it's spawning. I'm not trying to underplay the skill that it takes to time dynamic power-ups and deny your opponent information, I'm just saying that I personally value the skill it takes to win a contested power-up more than I value the skill of timing the power-up. I just feel like it's more rewarding to win a contested power-up than it is winning an uncontested power-up because I denied my opponent information of when it's spawning, getting a free uncontested power item just feels cheap to me. I wouldn't mind dynamic timers for power-ups as much if every player in the game was somehow notified of what time the power-up was picked up by a player but I would still prefer static timers.

 

Besides static timers allowing for an equal opportunity for each team to contest each other for control of the power items it also provides consistency. For an example I like that in Halo 1 that camo and OS will always spawn at the same time as rockets because it provides a way to counter rockets. Another example of this in Halo 1 is the plasma rifle spawning at the same time as OS, it provides a way to counter OS. Despite static timers breeding an interesting interaction between the items in the sandbox through consistency it also creates an item hierarchy. For an example even though camo and OS spawn at the same time as rockets on Chill Out it forces players to contest each other for control of rockets and makes it really risky for players to go for an uncontested power-up instead of rockets.

 

Now to address the clarity issue with having a different timer for each weapon tier. It's very counterproductive for 343 to do this because they're trying to use universal settings for social(casual) and competitive play to make it easier for casual players to transition to competitive play. Having different types of timers for every item on the map just confuses players especially newcomers. IMO 343 should either make every item on the map be on static timers or just at least make power weapons and power-ups be on static timers. Another benefit of static timers is that it's easier for newcomers to get a grasp on how the timers work.

 

I know that my rant probably won't change your perspective on dynamic timers versus static timers in Halo, I just ranted to vent. I know that you will probably most likely always prefer dynamic timers over static timers and I will always prefer static timers over dynamic so lets agree to disagree. I know that it's very unlikely for 343 to change the power-ups to be on static timers for competitive play so I will just stick to playing custom games with more ideal competitive settings and use forge maps that have static timers for every power item on the map. Nah forget that, I'm too lazy for that, I think that I'm just going to give up on Halo 5 and stick with playing Halo 1 to get my competitive fix.

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lmao :eyes:

 

Wait hold on. REMOVE them?! Can I have what you're smoking thanks.

accident xD im on that A1 Steak Sauce

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I'm advocating for Halo 5's power-ups to be put on static timers because I honestly think they're more ideal for Halo than dynamic timers are. Halo isn't a 1v1 arena shooter like Quake and UT are, it's a team shooter that requires all players on both teams to have an equal amount of information of when the power items are spawning in order for certain game types like team slayer to function properly.

 

See, I don't agree with this.

 

I believe it allows for mind games.

 

Yes, it does allow snow balling to a certain extent, however it also requires teams to REALLY think. If I know when the camo is coming back, should I pick it up instantly when it spawns? Or should I wait 10 seconds to delay the timer which will throw off the other team even further?

 

If I'm losing, should I assume the other team has picked up the camo every time at the exact moment? Or should I wait a little bit since it might have taken them a few seconds to get it after it spawned?

 

If you kill a camo guy that just walked away from the camo spawn you can assume he only just picked it up. If you run into a full OS guy you can assume he only just picked it up. Guess the amount of seconds it would have taken for the OS guy to get to the position you killed him in and you then have a pretty accurate time for OS.

 

It's not like both teams are 100% in the dark as to when power ups are spawning again. If you're playing against a good team you can make the reasonable assumption that they've been keeping track of it, so you can make an educated guess as to when it's going to spawn simply by going off the base time and you'll usually be right within about 10 seconds.

 

A lot of peoples arguments against dynamic timers just makes them sound like they lack critical thinking. It would be pretty unlikely in a game against pros that one team will pick up OS at 11:50, then 9:30, then 7:05.

 

Usually it'll go something like 11:50, 9:45, 7:42, etc. Unless a team deliberately delays when they pick up camo or waits until you engage them to pick up OS (at which point you have an exact time to go off anyway so it doesn't even matter)

 

Just keep that in mind. It's so simple.

 

I'll also say that most peoples ideas of dynamic timers have been ruined by previous Halo's failure to do them properly.

 

For example, in Halo 2 weapons wouldn't respawn until depleted and dropped. In Halo 3 the timers could be "dirtied", etc, etc.

 

The dynamic timers I'm thinking of don't use crazy gimmicks like this.

 

And this is coming from a Halo CE kid. Most OG Halo dudes hate dynamic timers, although the vast majority of them don't have a lot of experience with other arena shooters so their perspective is pretty narrow.

 

There definitely are arguments for and against. Yes, the camo and rocket coming up at the same time can be a good thing since it allows one to counter the other, etc.

 

I really don't care either way if it's dynamic or static, however I believe the arguments against dynamic are very poorly thought out 99% of the time.

 

It seems to me like this problem could very, very easily be solved by simply having the icon up all the time or (to cut down on UI clutter) by having the icon disappear set time after respawn, at which point everyone who's paying attention has gotten the relevant information anyway.

 

Or just do what Toxikk does:

 

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There is quite literally no argument for radar except that "its not the worst thing in competitive".

 

Remove it.

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Honestly, I like radar, but if it is going to be 18 meters, then just remove it.  18 meters in game is like slapping distance.  It's too short.

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There is quite literally no argument for radar except that "its not the worst thing in competitive".

 

Remove it.

 

I dont think they will remove because of casuals but i think a fine middle ground would be that you only show up on radar if you are shooting, sprinting shoulder bashing or ground and pounding. or maybe have it be like cs go were you show up on the radar if your teamate spots you. 

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Honestly, I like radar, but if it is going to be 18 meters, then just remove it. 18 meters in game is like slapping distance. It's too short.

 

If the Radar is going to be in, it needs to be small. There is a stern difference between being able to abusively predict enemy movement and not being able to predict inconsistent and erratic movement. The small radar requires quicker reaction times, forces more movement, etc.

 

 


 

There is quite literally no argument for radar except that "its not the worst thing in competitive".

 

Remove it.

 

You clearly know that no one is using that as an actual argument.

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If the Radar is going to be in, it needs to be small. There is a stern difference between being able to abusively predict enemy movement and not being able to predict inconsistent and erratic movement. The small radar requires quicker reaction times, forces more movement, etc.

 

 

 

You clearly know that no one is using that as an actual argument.

Weren't you the same guy who didn't care for sprint since it isn't nearly as bad as Reach and 4?

 

I have yet to see one legitimate argument for radar's inclusion around here from people in favor of it that isn't that it

 

A. Homogenizes casual and comp play (which not EVERYTHING needs to be)

B. Is small enough (forgetting that smaller radar is now basically only benefiting people who aren't moving

C. Isn't the biggest issue with competitive play (this is true imo, but that doesn't make it good)

 

Even a game like Halo 4 with some crazy ass settings worked just fine with no radar. I'm not seeing how Halo 5 is somehow the exception to this. If we're using radar to "balance" our gameplay mechanics, perhaps we need to rethink those game mechanics.

 

I think y'all need to really get on making that video of yours....It'd be an easier and more accessible way of understanding all your positions on Halo 5's gameplay and what arguments in favor of mechanics I question are. Love to see it. May clear things up for me.

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Like I've heard the many ways of why radar is bad in competitive, but I want to know WHY radar is good now? After 10+ years of no radar in competitive Halo why now is it good and it should stay in?

 

I don't want to hear "universal settings" bullshit.

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See, I don't agree with this.

 

I believe it allows for mind games.

 

Yes, it does allow snow balling to a certain extent, however it also requires teams to REALLY think. If I know when the camo is coming back, should I pick it up instantly when it spawns? Or should I wait 10 seconds to delay the timer which will throw off the other team even further?

 

If I'm losing, should I assume the other team has picked up the camo every time at the exact moment? Or should I wait a little bit since it might have taken them a few seconds to get it after it spawned?

 

If you kill a camo guy that just walked away from the camo spawn you can assume he only just picked it up. If you run into a full OS guy you can assume he only just picked it up. Guess the amount of seconds it would have taken for the OS guy to get to the position you killed him in and you then have a pretty accurate time for OS.

 

It's not like both teams are 100% in the dark as to when power ups are spawning again. If you're playing against a good team you can make the reasonable assumption that they've been keeping track of it, so you can make an educated guess as to when it's going to spawn simply by going off the base time and you'll usually be right within about 10 seconds.

 

A lot of peoples arguments against dynamic timers just makes them sound like they lack critical thinking. It would be pretty unlikely in a game against pros that one team will pick up OS at 11:50, then 9:30, then 7:05.

 

Usually it'll go something like 11:50, 9:45, 7:42, etc. Unless a team deliberately delays when they pick up camo or waits until you engage them to pick up OS (at which point you have an exact time to go off anyway so it doesn't even matter)

 

Just keep that in mind. It's so simple.

 

I'll also say that most peoples ideas of dynamic timers have been ruined by previous Halo's failure to do them properly.

 

For example, in Halo 2 weapons wouldn't respawn until depleted and dropped. In Halo 3 the timers could be "dirtied", etc, etc.

 

The dynamic timers I'm thinking of don't use crazy gimmicks like this.

 

And this is coming from a Halo CE kid. Most OG Halo dudes hate dynamic timers, although the vast majority of them don't have a lot of experience with other arena shooters so their perspective is pretty narrow.

 

There definitely are arguments for and against. Yes, the camo and rocket coming up at the same time can be a good thing since it allows one to counter the other, etc.

 

I really don't care either way if it's dynamic or static, however I believe the arguments against dynamic are very poorly thought out 99% of the time.

Yes dynamic timers allows for some mind games to occur but what it doesn't do is force players to engage their opponent every single time the power items spawn because it doesn't allow for an equal opportunity for each team to contest each other for control of said power item. What you call mind games I call guessing games. I understand that it's possible to predict when a dynamic power-up is spawning by observing your opponent's behavior but I don't like the added layer of randomness that comes along with it, too much room for error for my personal taste. To me playing with dynamic timers in Halo feels like playing Halo 1 without using a timer and your opponents are using a timer. Maybe a better analogy would be compared to using a delayed timer in Halo 1 when your opponent's timer is exactly on point with the game. Either way you should get my point.

 

Imagine if in Halo 1 there was a built in timer so you could keep track of the time also imagine if power-ups were on dynamic timers instead of static timers. Now imagine how poorly maps like Damnation would play because it relies heavily on players nading power-ups before their opponents do. For an example picture this scenario, one team is sitting up on top shotgun on Damnation for almost the entire game because they keep on nading camo back and getting it uncontested because their opponent is unaware of the exact time that camo is spawning. Yes the other team can try to grab rockets and try to counter the player that keeps on getting camo uncontested but it's easier said than done. Camo is the most pivotal item to control on Damnation so it makes sense for it to be on a static timer instead of a dynamic timer. So many games in Halo 1 would end with one team completely shutting out the other team if power-ups were on dynamic timers instead of static timers. It would be like playing Derelict almost every single game.

You're right about my perspective on dynamic timers being narrow because I've never played any arena shooters such as Quake and UT before. Maybe I would be more open to Halo 5's power-ups being on dynamic timers if I would of played Quake and UT before playing Halo CE. It's too late now though, my perspective of dynamic timers has been muddied and I don't see it changing anytime in the near future. To be honest I wish that Bungie would of never introduced dynamic timers for power-ups in Halo 2, I wish they would of kept every single item on static timers like they were in Halo 1. Static timers makes Halo more unique because it further differentiates itself from arena shooters like Quake and UT that use dynamic timers for their items. If Halo didn't have such a huge identity crisis then we probably wouldn't be arguing over which type of timer for power items works better for Halo. Anyways I'm done with this debate, we can go on and on about what type of timer we prefer or what type of timer that we think is more ideal for Halo but that gets us no where. I'm going to agree to disagree with you.

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Edit- stupid mobile moving right before I click threads

 

OT: I am of the opinion that settings, at least Team Arena/Slayer/Objective should be the same as any pro settings. Whatever they decide on, keep in consistent throughout.

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reading this thread allways reminds me of this one scene in RotJ when one of those brave Ewoks desperatly shakes the body of his dead buddy, grasping every straw that he might be still revivable...

Does anyone still believe that 343 will change anything about radar, weapon balance or anything else?

I'm not saying people stop complaining, I'm actually curious if you guys think it is still possible that 343 changes anything?

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reading this thread allways reminds me of this one scene in RotJ when one of those brave Ewoks desperatly shakes the body of his dead buddy, grasping every straw that he might be still revivable...

Does anyone still believe that 343 will change anything about radar, weapon balance or anything else?

I'm not saying people stop complaining, I'm actually curious if you guys think it is still possible that 343 changes anything?

 

Probably not, but I guess it's worth a try. I will still continue to support HCS, but I will not play on those settings.

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Like I've heard the many ways of why radar is bad in competitive, but I want to know WHY radar is good now? After 10+ years of no radar in competitive Halo why now is it good and it should stay in?

 

I don't want to hear "universal settings" bullshit.

The "reasons" I've heard include the following list. These "reasons" are almost always given as statements of fact without any further explanation.

 

1. The maps are more vertical than previous games

2. Halo 5's movement makes the gameplay too erratic or unpredictable without radar

3. "When I play at a high level, people are flying around and taking each other off guard all the time anyway."

4. "We need universal settings for audience appeal" (I know you didn't want to hear this but it's one of the primary arguments)

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The "reasons" I've heard include the following list. These "reasons" are almost always given as statements of fact without any further explanation.

 

1. The maps are more vertical than previous games

2. Halo 5's movement makes the gameplay too erratic or unpredictable without radar

3. "When I play at a high level, people are flying around and taking each other off guard all the time anyway."

4. "We need universal settings for audience appeal" (I know you didn't want to hear this but it's one of the primary arguments)

I know @@Infinity is in support of a few of these. I'm sure if you ask, he'd be more than happy to explain his reasons.

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reading this thread allways reminds me of this one scene in RotJ when one of those brave Ewoks desperatly shakes the body of his dead buddy, grasping every straw that he might be still revivable...

Does anyone still believe that 343 will change anything about radar, weapon balance or anything else?

I'm not saying people stop complaining, I'm actually curious if you guys think it is still possible that 343 changes anything?

Hahahaha probably not unless pro players complain

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I know @@Infinity is in support of a few of these. I'm sure if you ask, he'd be more than happy to explain his reasons.

I'd love to hear them. I like that guy because he's willing to explain his reasons for thinking things that are contrary to the majority of this thread's beliefs.

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