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Halo 5: Guardians Arena Gameplay Settings Thread

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Nerf Storm Rifles, make them and SMGs "tier 2" weapons where they have the same respawn properties as shotguns, swords, etc. and I'll be happy. That's literally all I ask

I'm probably the minority in thinking this, but the Storm Rifle doesn't really need a damage nerf, it just needs to use up more battery, limited to 1 per map, and have tier 2 spawn properties.

 

Currently, the weapon just never runs out of ammo.

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First of all party restrictions are a MUST if you want your ranking system to have any integrity at all. A To4 that is the same skill level as you individually will run a train on you if you play with randoms. This is a fact. Second, Halo 3 did not have soft party restrictions. It had the most rigid system out of (maybe) any Halo game. Teams 100% matched other teams and solo players matched solo players (or had a To2 on each team). "Promoting team play" basically means "playing solo fucking blows" and that is NOT how a game should be.

 

But then you end you ranks meaning two different things. When you play alone you could be a Champion, but when you play with a team you could be only a high Onyx. Why players will choose to play with Teams if they could achieve higher ranks playing alone?

 

To me it doesn't make sense that way. To solve this, the only option would be separated playlist (and have really accurate ranks): 4v4 Solo, 4v4 TEAM (like H2C clan matches). And what about To2 and To3? Of course 343 can add a playlist for any kind of team combination.

 

For me, the only viable compromise are SOFT restrictions. To be honest i don't remember very well how Halo 3 implemented Party matching, but did not the search expanded after a few minutes? Or it was only the skill ranges?

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But then you end you ranks meaning two different things. When you play alone you could be a Champion, but when you play with a team you could be only a high Onyx. Why players will choose to play with Teams if they could achieve higher ranks playing alone?

 

First of all, wut.

 

Second of all, it would be the opposite most likely. I was playing solo yesterday and watched a kid throw a splinter nade in front of himself and walk directly into it. He wasn't even trolling.

 

Please kill me.

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I agree with most of your post but this.

 

If 343 implement HARD Party restrictions, then you will have high rank individual players who suck as team players and discourage playing as a team (long search times).

 

Right now, the ranking system (in a TEAM playlist) encourage playing with teammates. This is a good thing, players who play on organized teams will climb to higher ranks that players who choose to play alone.

 

I am all for SOFT Party restrictions (ala Halo 3), meaning the system will try to match To4 vs To4, but if not found after a certain time it will expand search to vs To3, then To2, then randoms.

 

I know it sucks getting bad teammates, but we can't expect climbing to high ranks (high Onyx, Champion) if we always play alone in a Team based playlist.

HARD Party restrictions were in Halo 3. And I don't agree that it's a good thing to match to4s vs randoms ever, that is basically handing out free wins to teams of four, which then is handing out free high ranks, which then means that the ranking system doesn't respectfully and accurately show who the best players are... 

 

Just because it's a team playlist doesn't mean you should be given special treatment for searching with a team (free wins vs people who aren't searching as team). You basically just said that people who search as a team deserve a higher rank just because they search as a team... you're saying that you should be rewarded with a higher rank for not being skilled but for searching with players, that isn't a RANKING system, that's some kind of system where if you have friends even if you're bad, you'll have a higher rank than people who are better than you, but search alone. That is flawed. Halo 3 did it perfectly, even in the later years after other Halos came out (the lower population didn't stop it from working). 

 

One more thing, the argument "You won't find a game in time if party restrictions get made" is also extremely flawed because if you're playing ranked and you're searching with a team of four and you can't find a match in time the game decides to match up people searching alone or with a few buddies, it might as well just be social at that point, because the fact that one team will have coordination/communication and the other team won't have it nearly to the point of the team of four, is such an EXTREME DISADVANTAGE that it is a joke to call any playlist ranked that incorporates this feature. I'm pretty sure people who actually care about their rank would rather wait a little longer to find a FAIR match then to just get a "free loss". Why not just have social be the "MATCH YOU AS FAST AS POSSIBLE" playlists and have the ranked ones be "MATCH YOU WITH A FAIR MATCH" playlists? The second you mix features of social to ranked it instantly corrupts the value of a high rank in arena. The fact that some of the Arena #1 players are players that could get smashed by teams outside of the top 16 is bulletproof proof that the way it all works is extremely flawed. 

 

I know it sounds like I am repeating myself but I'm just trying to get the point across that party restrictions are extremely important.

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But then you end you ranks meaning two different things. When you play alone you could be a Champion, but when you play with a team you could be only a high Onyx. Why players will choose to play with Teams if they could achieve higher ranks playing alone?

 

To me it doesn't make sense that way. To solve this, the only option would be separated playlist (and have really accurate ranks): 4v4 Solo, 4v4 TEAM (like H2C clan matches). And what about To2 and To3? Of course 343 can add a playlist for any kind of team combination.

 

For me, the only viable compromise are SOFT restrictions. To be honest i don't remember very well how Halo 3 implemented Party matching, but did not the search expanded after a few minutes? Or it was only the skill ranges?

Literally the first person I've ever seen that is against party restrictions.

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I think of instead of party restrictions, there should be these Ranked playlists.

 

Team Arena

 

Team Arena (Solo/Duo queue)

 

FFA

 

Doubles

 

The rest is Social.

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But then you end you ranks meaning two different things. When you play alone you could be a Champion, but when you play with a team you could be only a high Onyx. Why players will choose to play with Teams if they could achieve higher ranks playing alone?

 

To me it doesn't make sense that way. To solve this, the only option would be separated playlist (and have really accurate ranks): 4v4 Solo, 4v4 TEAM (like H2C clan matches). And what about To2 and To3? Of course 343 can add a playlist for any kind of team combination.

 

For me, the only viable compromise are SOFT restrictions. To be honest i don't remember very well how Halo 3 implemented Party matching, but did not the search expanded after a few minutes? Or it was only the skill ranges?

You're saying that certain players will get to a high rank when they search alone compared to as a team, and that is true, but there will also be players that would be higher ranked when searching as a team than if they searched alone. But that really isn't a big problem because really good teams of four will win more often than really good players who search alone because that player searching alone still has to carry their three other teammates. And the odds of doing that consistently are much smaller that searching fours with a great team that wins all the time. But it still works out for the smaller parties of players because if they play a lot of games they'll water down the randomness(bad teammates or luck games) and will have a more accurate display of their true rank, while the actually top teams that search fours will not have to deal with the randomness which should accurately display higher win rates and ranks over those who don't search fours. Basically the ranks will display the top players even more accurately if party restrictions got enabled. Searching as a team would still be the best way to rank up compared to searching with a smaller party so great teams of four would have the higher arena ranks because they'll win more often than those who search alone or with small parties because they don't have to deal with random teammates. This would make everything FAIR and accurate. Plus this way the top arena ranks would probably be majority pro players, which means having a high rank would be even more of an accomplishment.

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I think of instead of party restrictions, there should be these Ranked playlists.

 

Team Arena

 

Team Arena (Solo/Duo queue)

 

FFA

 

Doubles

 

The rest is Social.

 

 

Correct.

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I think of instead of party restrictions, there should be these Ranked playlists.

 

Team Arena

 

Team Arena (Solo/Duo queue)

 

FFA

 

Doubles

 

The rest is Social.

This would be pretty much perfect and a massive improvement over what we currently have.

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I think of instead of party restrictions, there should be these Ranked playlists.

 

Team Arena

 

Team Arena (Solo/Duo queue)

 

FFA

 

Doubles

 

The rest is Social.

So what happens to parties of 3?

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So what happens to parties of 3?

 

They play Team Arena, and get a random. Team Arena would have an algorithm for that of course.

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They play Team Arena, and get a random. Team Arena would have an algorithm for that of course.

But solo players cant search team arena in your system.

 

Assuming you meant two separate lists.

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Teams of 4 match teams of 4

Teams of 3 + 1 solo can match teams of 4

 

This is what H3 was like if you've all forgot lol, or at least specific playlists in H3 were made to where if more than half the team was partied up it counted as a large party and you could match full parties. Bungie did this for search times.

 

 

Teams of 2 match other teams of 2 or solo

You could test 2 teams of 2 matching teams of 4 but I don't think that'd go as well

 

 

You'd have the weighting more in favor of the even parties matching each other but after x amount of time open it up to allow the alternative given.

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I think of instead of party restrictions, there should be these Ranked playlists.

 

Team Arena

 

Team Arena (Solo/Duo queue)

 

FFA

 

Doubles

 

The rest is Social.

I was about to say that party restrictions can do this too, but this also keeps your solo mmr and rank separate from your full team ones. Problem is, why would any singles ever play regular Team Arena to fill the last spot on a team with a party of 3 if they have the same thing with no parties?

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Teams of 4 match teams of 4

Teams of 3 + 1 solo can match teams of 4

 

This is what H3 was like if you've all forgot lol, or at least specific playlists in H3 were made to where if more than half the team was partied up it counted as a large party and you could match full parties. Bungie did this for search times.

 

 

Teams of 2 match other teams of 2 or solo

You could test 2 teams of 2 matching teams of 4 but I don't think that'd go as well

 

 

You'd have the weighting more in favor of the even parties matching each other but after x amount of time open it up to allow the alternative given.

Halo 3 never did that. It had the same party size on each side always. Like actually. I played 20k games at least of H3 and that NEVER happened to me in ranked.

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No you could match to3 vs to4 at some point or another because I remember matching GMM constantly at one point running as a to3

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I'm probably the minority in thinking this, but the Storm Rifle doesn't really need a damage nerf, it just needs to use up more battery, limited to 1 per map, and have tier 2 spawn properties.

 

Currently, the weapon just never runs out of ammo.

agreed. storm rifles should not be spawning so quickly so that every spawner can get one at their base. it's a tier two weapon.

 

 

Smgs i'm cool with as is, even if they bug me

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No you could match to3 vs to4 at some point or another because I remember matching GMM constantly at one point running as a to3

Idk man from everything I remember it never happened. You could in reach and everything else past that. I'd like to see actual proof. Not just someone saying you could. 

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Idk man from everything I remember it never happened. You could in reach and everything else past that. I'd like to see actual proof. Not just someone saying you could.

3 + 1 could match To4. I think the only thing 3's could do was 3v3 or 3+1 v 4.

 

3's were the least desireable party size to play in. Besides solo of course.

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HARD Party restrictions were in Halo 3. And I don't agree that it's a good thing to match to4s vs randoms ever, that is basically handing out free wins to teams of four, which then is handing out free high ranks, which then means that the ranking system doesn't respectfully and accurately show who the best players are... 

 

You are ignoring the Ranks,  4 individual who got to Onyx playing alone could beat a 4 player who got to Onyx playing as a team. 

 

Just because it's a team playlist doesn't mean you should be given special treatment for searching with a team (free wins vs people who aren't searching as team). You basically just said that people who search as a team deserve a higher rank just because they search as a team... you're saying that you should be rewarded with a higher rank for not being skilled but for searching with players, that isn't a RANKING system, that's some kind of system where if you have friends even if you're bad, you'll have a higher rank than people who are better than you, but search alone. That is flawed. Halo 3 did it perfectly, even in the later years after other Halos came out (the lower population didn't stop it from working). 

 

I NEVER said that players should be given an advantage just cause they search as a team.

What i implied is that, when players search as a Team, they will naturally climb to high ranks (Because they play as an Organized team in a TEAM playlist).

 

Imagine a Team of 4, they always play together. They are not very good individually (at most they can get Diamond alone), but they train a lot together and have good communication. They climb to Onyx 1800 and get stuck there.

 

Now you have 4 individual, that are very good individually but always play alone. They manage to climb to Onyx 1800 alone.

 

If you match that To4 vs 4-Lones, you think the To4 have an automatic win? Not me, i think that match will be competitive.

 

Players don't DESERVE to climb to high levels just because they have the individual skill to be one.

This isn't FFA, individual skill is not whats is being measured by your rank.

 

I think most of the complaints of individuals vs To4, comes from players who climbed to their rank playing with a team (or friends, most of the time) and when they try to search alone, they get owned.

 

First let me, define this terms (as i understand them). Because don't know if we are talking about the same thing here.

 

HARD Party restrictions: To4 only can match another To4, To3 + 1 match To3 + 1, To2 match To2, 4 lones match 4 lones.

 

SOFT Party restrictions: Matchmaking try to search for even teams, if not found after a certain time, search for a near even team, if not found after certain time, search for.. (and like that until certain time the search drop party restrictions).

I think SOFT restrictions are already in Halo 5? If they are, then still too Soft and need to be hardened.

 

Now, i never said i am against party restrictions.You think i like playing with 3 randoms against a To4? Fuck no..

 

What i want is SOFT restrictions (not saying it will be perfect), and i don't want HARD restrictions for the following reasons:

 

- Individuals could play A LOT more games in the same time, allowing them to rank faster.

- Players in the same playlist could never match each other, even if they are in the same Rank range.

- It separate ranks for the above reasons, and you end with meaningless Ranks.

- Disincentive players searching as a team, (it will be easier to rank playing alone, and you will find games faster). 

 

 

The complete solution as Batchford said, would be separate playlists.

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All I know is that with party restrictions, this game would be a lot more fun than it already is. It can get very frustrating at times when you're running solo and you match clearly a to3/4 with communication while your team is either all in party chat and you message them to go to gamechat and they don't or no one on your team has a mic, so then you proceed to get beat in about 5 minutes. 

 

Just my 2 cents.

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What i want is SOFT restrictions (not saying it will be perfect), and i don't want HARD restrictions for the following reasons:

 

- Individuals could play A LOT more games in the same time, allowing them to rank faster.

- Players in the same playlist could never match each other, even if they are in the same Rank range.

- It separate ranks for the above reasons, and you end with meaningless Ranks.

- Disincentive players searching as a team, (it will be easier to rank playing alone, and you will find games faster). 

 

How could individuals play more games in the same time compared to a team allowing them to rank faster? That makes no since for two reasons,

1) Teams of four are going to be more coordinated and the games are going to escalate a lot faster meaning they'll probably end faster.

2) Searching alone or with a smaller group of players would be the inferior way to rank up due to not knowing what kind of random teammates you get, and that teammate could quit, troll, suck, or stat whore to make you lose. So again, searching as a team would be the superior method since your team will play to win.

 

I am so confused by your logic. Soft party restrictions has resulted in tons of average players reaching high champion rank. Which already means the ranks are now "meaningless". In order for ranks to have value the hard party restrictions need to exist, maybe make them a tiny tiny tiny bit soft,like teams of three plus a random would sometimes match teams of four, but everything else needs to be like sized parties. 

 

Fast matching should be a social feature, not a ranked feature, otherwise you'll get average competitive matches.

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3 + 1 could match To4. I think the only thing 3's could do was 3v3 or 3+1 v 4.

 

3's were the least desireable party size to play in. Besides solo of course.

I'm not kidding when I say it's never happened to me and I've played over 20k ranked halo 3 games. I don't believe it. I'm gonna have to see proof.

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How could individuals play more games in the same time compared to a team allowing them to rank faster? Because at any give time, there are far less To4 vs To4 matches available in the search pool, compared to 4Singles vs 4Singles, and this only get worse over time when more players realize they could rank faster when playing alone.

 

That makes no since for two reasons,

1) Teams of four are going to be more coordinated and the games are going to escalate a lot faster meaning they'll probably end faster. How? Singles vs Singles, people tend to stop trying (or quit) when they are losing so games will end faster. On To4 vs To4, matches will last more on average because teams don't give up as easily.

 

2) Searching alone or with a smaller group of players would be the inferior way to rank up due to not knowing what kind of random teammates you get, and that teammate could quit, troll, suck, or stat whore to make you lose. So again, searching as a team would be the superior method since your team will play to win. Again (with HARD restrictions enabled), searching alone you will never face any coordinated team, only other singles. So yes, sometimes you will have bad teammates, but the other side could too. And at high Onyx, most players play to win, is not like just because is not a To4, there would be not any kind communication or drive to win.

 

 

I am so confused by your logic. Soft party restrictions has resulted in tons of average players reaching high champion rank.

You see average players in Champion leaderboards, i see a combination of pros, semipros, pros smurfs, semis pros smurfs, really good unknown players and some grinders.

Arena Ranks have devalued because 343 introduced shitty Maps/Gametypes that most Pros/Semi Pros don't want to waste time playing, so you have less Top players grinding Arena or taking it seriously. Then add dodging, server errors, lagouts, etc. My point is that SOFT restrictions is not the reason of having meaningless Champions.

Yes, a bad player could get "boosted" to high rank if he plays with their good friends. This is nothing new to Halo.

 

Which already means the ranks are now "meaningless". In order for ranks to have value the hard party restrictions need to exist, maybe make them a tiny tiny tiny bit soft,like teams of three plus a random would sometimes match teams of four, but everything else needs to be like sized parties. 

 

Fast matching should be a social feature, not a ranked feature, otherwise you'll get average competitive matches.

 

Reasonable search time are key for a healthy ranking system (where Ranks mean something). For the simple fact that players will gave up searching if search time is too long (thus playing less games in that playlist). So you end with good teams, playing less games on average, compared to singled players. 

 

With HARD restrictions you are dividing the playlist Population in two groups: Single Players and Player who always (or most of the time) play in a To4.

If those players group could never match each other, then what rank will be more meaningful, the Champion of a Single Player or the Champion of the To4 player?

What's the point of having those two groups in the same playlist? 

 

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I'm not kidding when I say it's never happened to me and I've played over 20k ranked halo 3 games. I don't believe it. I'm gonna have to see proof.

So literally every time you searched as a team of 3 you played 3v3? Or are you saying it was always 3+1 v 3+1? How could you know that?

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