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Halo - Where is it?

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Ok so these are the reasons why I like BTB in Halo 5:

 

1) Spartan abilities. 

 

They feels reasonably natural due to the map size in BTB. The maps aren't "expanded" to cater for the sprint/clamber etc. They are quite a normal size. Thrust doesn't feel OP because the maps are open enough that you will always kill someone you aim at.

 

2) Maps.

 

Yeah, they're forge maps, but most of them feel really nice and they have an unusual aesthetic that makes me feel like I'm playing as a toy soldier. Some people don't like this, but I like it for nostalgic reasons dating back to when I was significantly younger. They have the same appeal as "Blood Gulch" does aesthetically (to me). I would love to see some dev maps, but they are functional and play well.

 

3) Weapons.

 

Everyone spawns with the same weapons, which is delicious. In Warzone I hate the fact that people spawn with what they want. The fact that weapons-on-map is in the game (as well as powerups) gives it a much better "Halo" feel to me, I really like it. It means the sniper is a real power weapon, like the rockets and others. I like to feel like I can directly dictate the match if I'm good enough, and I can do this in BTB through map/weapon control. These are harder to do in Warzone and I find it dull anyway.

 

4) Vehicles.

 

Set vehicles on map with spawns. Works just like good old Halo, and is balanced on a per-map basis. Anti-vehicle weapons are also on the map to balance them.

 

5) Gametypes.

 

No Assault yet, but CTF, Strongholds and Slayer are a great selection to have in one playlist. Strongholds on Guillotine is especially enjoyable. You get something different every game, unlike Warzone.

 

 

It's all opinion, but these are the reasons I enjoy it so much. BTB feels like the most "Halo" experience in the whole game.

that last part i do agree with, it does feel the most like halo out of all the experiences in h5 in terms of the rhythm and pace of the game. much like in reach i don't mind AAs in BTB (namely sprint and thruster) though it did feel quite nice when they're on the map.

 

for the weapons my main disappointment is the laser, loved using it so much, aside from brad pitt i've probably got the most laser kills my main had 6k, though i played on my friends accounts and that was another 5k, i stopped before 2012 and BTB heavies so i was top 3 at the time, love that thing.

 

as for vehicles there was something about both h3 and reach that i loved about the vehicle control and physics, so i really don't like the vehicles in h5 and because of the vehicles and the spawn system the maps can play quite iffy imo.

 

otherwise yea i get it.

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@Noscopehagen

 

To start with, your post didn't offend me, it's not really something that is offending...

 

Doubles - Yeah, "Holiday Doubles" was shit... and your point is?  

 

My point is that it was in there, but it didn't work. Take what you want from this. I thought the playlist was rubbish and I, like you, want a 2v2 playlist in there. We'll have to wait to see how 2v2 pans out. You dismissed it as if it was never there at any time.

 

BTB- You're aware BTB's Halo's all-time most popular playlist ever, correct? I didn't add negatives to fit my point.  343 added a shell of Halo's most popular MP playlist, and added it late with "BTB" slapped across it...my guess is simply to appease people and shut them up.  Looks like it's working better than I'd have ever imagined. No dev maps in Big Team Battle??? Hell yeah!  Badass!

 

Of course I can't deny that the maps are all Forged maps, but you stated quite simply 

 

 

This statement is correct, but BTB is in the game. 8 vs 8 objective/slayer mix, unranked, vehicles on map and no loadouts. It's in the game. It feels like you added the "With 1 dev map" part to make it so you could make your "absent" statement look better. 

 

Please know that I agree that we should have dev-made maps, I would love to see some higher fidelity maps.

 

Snipers - Yep...not there permanently.  Do you not remember why Halo online MP was so amazing H2/H3? These first 3 playlists were permanent fixtures.  They didn't ride back seat to Bungie's new modes, and especially ones which were clearly not being received very well (cough - Breakout).

 

I can't really argue with this, all valid.

 

Social =/= Weekend playlists.  Why?  Because 343 has also been using Weekend Playlists for competitive game modes like Snipers. You're right though...since social aspects have been flirted with, this is my bad. Let's pretend shit's grand.

 

Apparently it's "not as easy as flicking a switch", and whilst BTB and Warzone are "social" playlists, I completely agree that there needs to be some unranked 4v4 playlists.

 

You know what I think is "petty"? - You being offended by my OP, then trying to argue things I say within it like Josh Holmes does Sprint/anything else they're going to put in the game no matter what you say.  Pettiness = picking out/on little things while disregarding the bigger picture.  Is this not precisely what you've done here? It sure seems that way to me.

 

Pettiness was probably an unfair term, I just didn't like reading that you dismissed social playlists and BTB as not being there when they clearly are. I came across as aggressive and I admit my post was a bit ironic in this regard.

 

I consider Halo 5 late-shipped BTB, which likely won't ever sport a single dev-made map to be garbage, and therefore have no problem saying BTB is absent.  As far as I'm concerned Halo-quality BTB is not present in Halo 5.  Now, does that make me petty?

 

Well that's just opinion, BTB is actually my favourite playlist in Halo 5 so far, but each to our own.

 

And FYI - I wasn't suggesting my OP should be stickied anywhere.  If you think that's what I meant or this was about, you really missed the point.

 

I just feel your post too bias towards an attack against 343. A neutral standing would have been a better stance as it makes it more interesting and valid.

 

But hey, I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

 

I think the problem is that 343 has tried so hard to take Halo -- 4 and 5 -- in a direction that they hoped would compete with the Call of Duty series like it did years ago. And, It's just not going to happen. It's been so many years since Halo even competed with the COD population. Honestly, I don't care! They should have never messed with the formula that was Halo. It just worked and sure it was losing ground to the COD series, but it was still a very popular and had a healthy community--even with Reach--until the Halo 4 was released.  And it just seems that 343 didn't listen to the community feedback and did what they thought was best while developing Halo 5. I don't that that approach worked. I saw on a post here in the Halo 5 discussion that mentioned "now with the resurgence of Halo..." or something similar to that. Personally, I don't think there's a resurgence, but I have no proof. Maybe for the competitive fan base because there's 2 plus million dollars on the table, but for the rest of us that loved Halo casually, I just don't think so. I don't hate 343. They are seriously talented team, but whoever is driving the direction of the franchise needs some assistance in the future development of Halo in my opinion.

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I think the problem is that 343 has tried so hard to take Halo -- 4 and 5 -- in a direction that they hoped would compete with the Call of Duty series like it did years ago. And, It's just not going to happen. It's been so many years since Halo even competed with the COD population. Honestly, I don't care! They should have never messed with the formula that was Halo. It just worked and sure it was losing ground to the COD series, but it was still a very popular and had a healthy community--even with Reach--until the Halo 4 was released.  And it just seems that 343 didn't listen to the community feedback and did what they thought was best while developing Halo 5. I don't that that approach worked. I saw on a post here in the Halo 5 discussion that mentioned "now with the resurgence of Halo..." or something similar to that. Personally, I don't think there's a resurgence, but I have no proof. Maybe for the competitive fan base because there's 2 plus million dollars on the table, but for the rest of us that loved Halo casually, I just don't think so. I don't hate 343. They are seriously talented team, but whoever is driving the direction of the franchise needs some assistance in the future development of Halo in my opinion.

 

Classic Halo never lost ground to COD. It dominated it. At the height of Halo's popularity it destroyed it's own gameplay and killed the series. Classic Halo was never given a chance to fail, and if they had kept making classic Halo games it wouldn't have. 

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Dude we have been fighting the good fight for over 5 years. Some of the people here much longer. It falls on deaf ears. Anyone remember that huge write up submitted to 343 after halo 4? They just don't care. Honestly I just don't care anymore either. I just enjoy halo 5 for what it is at this point. An above average shooter that has a fun competitive scene to follow.

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Classic Halo never lost ground to COD. It dominated it. At the height of Halo's popularity it destroyed it's own gameplay and killed the series. Classic Halo was never given a chance to fail, and if they had kept making classic Halo games it wouldn't have. 

I have to side with this all the way.  The original concept of Halo gameplay formula was immensely popular till the day it disappeared.  Ever since, Halo's popularity has been steadily declining.  To overlook such a correlation is foolish - Just look at 343, Halo 4, and Halo 5.

 

Dude we have been fighting the good fight for over 5 years. Some of the people here much longer. It falls on deaf ears. Anyone remember that huge write up submitted to 343 after halo 4? They just don't care. Honestly I just don't care anymore either. I just enjoy halo 5 for what it is at this point. An above average shooter that has a fun competitive scene to follow.

You do care though.  You're still here...  

 

Apathy is the result of feeling incapable of making a difference.  Everyone who wants Halo to go back to it's original form should likely be able to sympathize too.  There will be no game to enjoy for what it is, or competitive scene to follow if 343 continues as they are.  How to actually break through and force changes to be made?  I don't know, but I'm positive discussion = first step to figuring it out.     

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I think the problem is that 343 has tried so hard to take Halo -- 4 and 5 -- in a direction that they hoped would compete with the Call of Duty series like it did years ago. And, It's just not going to happen. It's been so many years since Halo even competed with the COD population. Honestly, I don't care! They should have never messed with the formula that was Halo. It just worked and sure it was losing ground to the COD series, but it was still a very popular and had a healthy community--even with Reach--until the Halo 4 was released.  And it just seems that 343 didn't listen to the community feedback and did what they thought was best while developing Halo 5. I don't that that approach worked. I saw on a post here in the Halo 5 discussion that mentioned "now with the resurgence of Halo..." or something similar to that. Personally, I don't think there's a resurgence, but I have no proof. Maybe for the competitive fan base because there's 2 plus million dollars on the table, but for the rest of us that loved Halo casually, I just don't think so. I don't hate 343. They are seriously talented team, but whoever is driving the direction of the franchise needs some assistance in the future development of Halo in my opinion.

Besides the fact that Halo was topping COD in sales/player population (only on Xbox obviously), anyone with business intelligence enough to gain control over a multi-billion dollar franchise, such as Halo cannot be naive, ignorant, or even just over-ambitious enough to actually go after a multi-platform giant.  

 

This idea only becomes more absurd when considering the plan would be - Top multi-plat giant...as an exclusive...w/entirely asinine plan of execution = Mimick said competitor... Hope your mimics are more compelling to the competitor's existing customers than the OG... Steal competitor's customers.  

 

No, it just doesn't add up.  It makes for one hell of a day on Waypoint, but I think you'll agree that common sense just cannot co-exist with the theory if you look at things from a financial/business perspective.

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The only way to restore the franchise is to separate it from M$. It's fine if they want to produce it but it needs a new developer, I think Certain Affinity fits in there. Then I think Halo can restore itself. 

 

I started playing Halo when I was 11 in 2001. I loved Halo 1, It's the most fun I've had with any game, and M$ has never done right by it. I can find forum posts from myself from like 2007 complaining that M$ was refusing to release H1 on Xbox Live because they didn't want to distract people from buying H3 DLC. It's really been ridiculous the way they have treated the franchise. No respect for Halo, the developers of Halo, or the fans of Halo. 

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Great post man. Don't understand why all this content was left out, even with it this game would still be a disaster. 

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Honestly man people are fucking exhausted. If you don't notice, these arguments go back to 2004, when Halo 2 was released and reduced individual player's power to control the game and made the focus of the game on teamwork/teamshot. Even though there were complaints, we loved Halo 2 and Halo 3, they were amazing games. Halo Reach was really the game Microsoft had been asking for since Halo 2 released. A game that eliminated the skill gap of the veterans, they thought the more anyone could play it and do well the more popular it would be, so they added bloom, sprint, jet packs bunch of abilities to ruin the gameplay and eliminate the skill gap. It failed, completely, it did not reflect why people loved halo in the first place. 

 

Instead of going back to the H2/H3 formula 343 has acted like Reach is the way forward. Because it was really M$/343s ideas in Reach in the first place. As soon as Bungie was done making Halo 3, less than 6 months after launch they announced a complete split from Microsoft. They didn't want to make another Halo game, they hired a bunch of developers and just produced the game Microsoft wanted as fast as possible. 

 

The only way to restore the franchise is to separate it from M$. It's fine if they want to produce it but it needs a new developer, I think Certain Affinity fits in there. Then I think Halo can restore itself. 

 

I started playing Halo when I was 11 in 2001. I loved Halo 1, It's the most fun I've had with any game, and M$ has never done right by it. I can find forum posts from myself from like 2007 complaining that M$ was refusing to release H1 on Xbox Live because they didn't want to distract people from buying H3 DLC. It's really been ridiculous the way they have treated the franchise. No respect for Halo, the developers of Halo, or the fans of Halo. 

 

I understand.  Trust me, I've been somewhere between confused and furious since at least the day Reach launched.  I'm exhausted too.  I endured the Noble 6 last stand we call Waypoint (a couple times actually).  As tiresome and fruitless as it feels/seems, I still think it's better to keep at it if one is going to remain involved with Halo in some form or fashion.

 

I totally understand where you're coming from, and you make many good points.  As I said in my OP, I just think we'd all be better served in the long run as Halo fans if we spent more time trying to reach figures of influence, perhaps not even 343 employees/reps, but individuals like Phil Spencer...rather than helping 343 tweak a game we never truly wanted or asked for 6-8 months after launch.

 

I just have can't accept the idea that MS would be interested in knowingly allowing its console's Mario to be drug through the mud when there are better ways.  More money is more reason for MS to make the best possible Halo game, and unless the entire agenda was to get a REQ-type system in place from the start, then 343 and all their charades ought not be too terribly difficult to move out of Halo's way.

 

It just takes a strong, collective, and persistent effort.  If you venture over to Waypoint, it's clear that the desire for change--as in a major reversion--is beginning to be realized in a large number of members there.  If Waypoint is catching on, who isn't?  

 

People run the company, but money runs the people.  To my knowledge, there is nothing...no study...no research...no tangible evidence of any kind...suggesting Halo would be anything other than more profitable/successful if created more so in the image of the first three games.

 

I'd like to see Halo be given a chance to thrive without having to completely die.  If it does die, then I agree with you in that Certain Affinity is likely a strong candidate to do a good job of rebooting it when/if the time comes.

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People run the company, but money runs the people.  To my knowledge, there is nothing...no study...no research...no tangible evidence of any kind...suggesting Halo would be anything other than more profitable/successful, if created more so in the image of the first three games.

 

I'd like to see Halo be given a chance to thrive without having to completely die.  If it does die, then I agree with you in that Certain Affinity is likely a strong candidate to do a good job of rebooting it when/if the time comes.

 

It won't happen with 343. Need a New Developer. I don't really see the point in interacting with 343 it just makes people angry and I don't feel like listening to shitty excuses 4 months after launch as to why after 3 years of development there are only 3 gametypes. Their incompetent, lazy, stupid and delusional. I think M$ will get the message this year when Playstation is nearing 50 million consoles sold and they can't hit 25 million. If it doesn't hit them and 343 makes Halo 6 this will probably be the end of Halo and end of Xbox. I'm 26 so at this point I don't really care, if they make a good Halo I'll play otherwise I've moved on. I can't play Halo 1 on Xbox Live after 15 years, I've put my XB1 away and don't give a shit about it. 

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It won't happen with 343. Need a New Developer. I don't really see the point in interacting with 343 it just makes people angry and I don't feel like listening to shitty excuses 4 months after launch as to why after 3 years of development there are only 3 gametypes. Their incompetent, lazy, stupid and delusional. I think M$ will get the message this year when Playstation is nearing 50 million consoles sold and they can't hit 25 million. If it doesn't hit them and 343 makes Halo 6 this will probably be the end of Halo and end of Xbox. I'm 26 so at this point I don't really care, if they make a good Halo I'll play otherwise I've moved on. I can't play Halo 1 on Xbox Live after 15 years, I've put my XB1 away and don't give a shit about it. 

 

I agree about needing a new developer, and I don't see any point in interacting with 343 either.  Every time they speak, they deceive, confuse, or misguide....and we usually never see it till we've paid them for the trip.

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I agree about needing a new developer, and I don't see any point in interacting with 343 either.  Every time they speak, they deceive, confuse, or misguide....and we never see it till we've paid them for the trip.

 

I mean if we were allowed to interact with them honestly, like Bungie.net allowed back in the day the hate would flow. Waypoint and r/Halo block all criticism. Team Beyond has always been for following MLG. 

 

I mean they can't answer questions honestly, because the answers are below expectations. I mean @Salient is on some random Halo forum whining about H5's player retention rate, the community's actual response is not some polite detante on the merits of different forms of calculating retention rates in video games across multiple titles.

 

The population in H5 is so fucking terrible they can't display it. That's the real discussion. @Salient wants to talk about player retention rates. Same goes for sales, the sales are fucking terrible. 

 

For kids who are 15, 20 yea it hurts they want to play Halo. For those of us who have been around long enough it's just what we have been forced to expect at this point. 

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I mean if we were allowed to interact with them honestly, like Bungie.net allowed back in the day the hate would flow. Waypoint and r/Halo block all criticism. Team Beyond has always been for following MLG. 

 

You're right.  Now, if you owned Halo, and you were told such hatred would flow...wouldn't you be concerned as to why that was the case? Wouldn't you find that to be a little troubling?  I know I would, because it is troubling.  

 

Consider how far removed shareholders and the top-level management at MS likely is from Halo and gaming in general.  Now, combine that with an understanding that Halo's still making MS a healthy amount of money, despite all the bullshit.

 

I feel confident you can at least fathom how Halo could wind up here without any real signs of change coming soon...BUT...perhaps also see how it might not be so impossible to change the situation too.

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Developers don't listen, which is what I've come to understand. You just have to accept what you're given.

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Developers don't listen, which is what I've come to understand. You just have to accept what you're given.

 

Problem is we're not "given" anything.  We purchase a specific product.

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Problem is we're not "given" anything.  We purchase a specific product.

 

Doesn't matter to 343. Their checks aren't cashed based on how well their products sell. M$ just throws them money. Their devoid of the normal relationship. 

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The op literally represents my rage every day I play halo 5.

 

 

I can't imagine what goes on in that studio.

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Classic Halo never lost ground to COD. It dominated it. At the height of Halo's popularity it destroyed it's own gameplay and killed the series. Classic Halo was never given a chance to fail, and if they had kept making classic Halo games it wouldn't have. 

 

This is pretty much how I've felt since Halo 4, although I believe Halo Reach started it with armor abilities (or Halo 3 with equipment).

 

I refuse to believe that all the bullshit (most especially sprint) we have now is the "norm" and it wouldn't help the franchise to remove it. Sprint played a big part in ruining Halo's population count and now people think Halo can't thrive without it. Like what the fuck? It also blows my mind that they continue to remove core gametypes like oddball and king of the hill and introduce depthless gametypes like Breakout. That could have been created since Halo 3 I'm pretty sure, yet people like Kevin Franklin brand it and consider it something unique.

 

My line of thinking is why would someone consider even buying Halo if it is trying to be the same game as call of duty / battlefield? The point is to innovate in the industry and that is exactly what Halo did when it first came to existence. But now we have 343 who wants to ruin the lives of fans by removing that innovation with every installment to be like everyone else. Like, is there no logic in the idea of people buying and playing two different shooters? People need a breath of fresh air some time, but Halo can't provide that if it is not unique to its competitors.

 

What disappoints me the most is the actual potential that exists to create a great Halo. 343 has so much data in front of them, concerning gameplay and general features. However, I'll be surprised to see anything great with 343/Microsoft's poor ideals.

 

"Don't fix what isn't broken."

 

"What do you mean?" -343 Industries

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I refuse to believe that all the bullshit (most especially sprint) we have now is the "norm" and it wouldn't help the franchise to remove it. Sprint played a big part in ruining Halo's population count and now people think Halo can't thrive without it. Like what the fuck? It also blows my mind that they continue to remove core gametypes like oddball and king of the hill and introduce depthless gametypes like Breakout. That could have been created since Halo 3 I'm pretty sure, yet people like Kevin Franklin brand it and consider it something unique.

 

 

"Don't fix what isn't broken."

 

"What do you mean?" -343

 

Breakout is Neutral Flag with 1 round per life. It could have been created in Halo 2. After 10 years no one ever did. I wonder why. 

 

I don't know Classic Halo was pretty great. If something is working beautifully, why are you fucking breaking it. 

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Some kid in this thread named @@Shekkles posted that there are PRE GAME LOBBIES?!

 

WHAT?!? WHERE?!!?

 

A pre game lobby is a lobby where you can look at the other teams stats, talk to them, etc.

 

Here you go:

 

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/mOgyhRodImQ/maxresdefault.jpg

 

 

Halo 5 most definitely DOES NOT have a pre game lobby. You can view the map and that's about it, oh I guess you can see the icons of the team youre about to play... that's about it. Calling that a pre game lobby is the same thing as calling dog shit food.

 

Don't be an asshole @shiggles that says "WELL TECHNIKALLY IT HAZ A PRE GAME LOBBY CUZ YOU KNOW CUZ YOU SEE THE MAP PICTURE B4 THE GAME STHARTS!!! DURRR"

 

you gotta be kidding me. You seem like you just wanted to debate OP for really no good reason. You had a few good points about file share, but that was it.

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Some kid in this thread named @@Shekkles posted that there are PRE GAME LOBBIES?!

 

WHAT?!? WHERE?!!?

 

A pre game lobby is a lobby where you can look at the other teams stats, talk to them, etc.

 

Here you go:

 

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/mOgyhRodImQ/maxresdefault.jpg

 

 

Halo 5 most definitely DOES NOT have a pre game lobby. You can view the map and that's about it, oh I guess you can see the icons of the team youre about to play... that's about it. Calling that a pre game lobby is the same thing as calling dog shit food.

 

Don't be an asshole @shiggles that says "WELL TECHNIKALLY IT HAZ A PRE GAME LOBBY CUZ YOU KNOW CUZ YOU SEE THE MAP PICTURE B4 THE GAME STHARTS!!! DURRR"

 

you gotta be kidding me. You seem like you just wanted to debate OP for really no good reason. You had a few good points about file share, but that was it.

I would calm down slightly.

 

Though I agree, the pre-game lobby in H5 is another sad joke.

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If you want to discuss Halo 5's shortcomings, you are welcome to do so respectfully in the Halo 5 thread, this will become an inevitable negative circle jerk with no real discussion.

 

Plus, half your 'Absents' are completely loaded facts, worded to suit your agenda.

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