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Halo - Where is it?

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After this post, I will let the thread die if no one cares to discuss the topic.  

 

Before I do, I want to quickly share my perspective of how each new Halo game comes and goes nowadays.  Consider this an outsider's perspective.  An outsider who has never been involved in the eSports/competitive gaming scenes, but certainly used to enjoy Halo for its unique tactical/arena hybrid play style, which kind of just so happened to present the plethora of deep/rich competitive elements we all enjoyed with HCE/H2/H3.  This is how it has appeared to go down both times (H4 and H5):

  1. They introduce upcoming game full of unwanted gimmicks
  2. You say "No" to most, if not all gimmicks 
  3. They say, "We hear you, but even the pro team's really been enjoying the gimmicks (H4 - "Casuals need/want ___")
  4. You explain--in extreme detail how--why implementing said gimmicks would not be wise
  5. They blatantly ignore you
  6. You elaborate even further, to the point where it becomes impossible for them to logically argue against you.
  7. They turn discussion into semantic debate
  8. You get frustrated/confused
  9. They thank you for all feedback
  10. They fall silent for 4-8 weeks
  11. You ask where the hell they are/what's going on?
  12. They return, prefacing visit with, "We're not going to entertain "religious debates" (aka: what you care about)
  13. Bullshit
  14. Bullshit
  15. Bullshit
  16. Bullshit
  17. Game releases, almost exactly as it was when they first introduced it to you.
  18. You're disappointed
  19. They truly just don't care
  20. You begin helping shape/set up competitive events
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I've been alone with you in my basement
And in my dreams MLG payed my rent
I sometimes see you pass across my screen.


Halo, is it me you're looking for?

I can see it in your lobby
I can see it in your AI

You're all I've ever wanted
And my NAT is open wide

 

'Cause you know just how to tease
And even though you're with 343
And I want to tell you so much,
I love you

 

I long to see the pistol beat ARs
And tell you time and time again
How much I care
Sometimes I feel my rank will overflow

 

Halo, I've just got to let you know
'Cause I wonder where you are
And I wonder what you do


Are you somewhere feeling lonely

Or is someone playing you?


Tell me how to win Breakout
For I haven't got a clue
But let me start by saying,

I love you


Halo, is it me you're looking for?
'Cause I wonder where you are
And I wonder what you do

 

Are you somewhere feeling lonely
Or is someone playing you?


Tell me how to win Breakout
For I haven't got a clue

But let me start by saying,
I love you
I love you

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@@BigShow36 - That was beautiful.  Thank you.

 

@ - I imagine (or hope) most everyone agrees with a good bit of it.  Tbh, that was sort of my point.  Seems like we're all just kicking the can down the road till 343 pulls out the magnum cocks and fires.

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I still believe that the only way Halo can ever regain any popularity at all is if it goes back to the original formula. That means no game breaking gimmicks like armor/Spartan abilities. As long as 343 continues to pump out their versions of "Halo", sales and population for each new game will be less than it's predecessor until the franchise is no longer profitable and Microsoft just ends it.

 

After Halo 5's terrible sales and population numbers, it'll be interesting to see what happens when Halo 6 comes out. Halo 5 is the Halo game that really hit me: no matter what, armor abilities/Spartan abilities or whatever you want to call the next set of game breaking gimmicks, cannot and will not ever work for Halo. If Halo 6 doesn't go back to Halo's roots with the original formula(knowing 343, it won't), then it'll be the first new Halo game I won't buy.

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Comonayaha - 

 

Team Beyond... Home to Halo's most competitive enthusiasts.  Where the rational, logical minded fan flocks once learning first-hand what Waypoint can do to a soul.  Where the developers of Halo choose to interact with fans/customers . . . This is where one should expect to see a sticky thread stating the following facts.

 

Within Halo 5: Guardians -- the latest numbered, mainline Halo iteration of the series . . .

 

Gamemodes

  • Team Doubles - Absent 

They had a team doubles playlist and it was ass, so they're probably changing it or waiting for a weapon tuning update.

 

  • Team Snipers - Absent

Once again, there was this playlist, but it's not there permanantly. 

  • Hardcore/MLG - Absent

Well this is just being petty. The Team Arena playlist will probably have the same settings as the HWC soon, making "MLG/Hardcore" redundant.

  • BTB w/1+ dev-made map - Absent

BTB is absent, just doesn't have any dev-made maps. You actually had to add a negative to this one just to make it fit your argument.

 

  • Social Slayer - Absent

 

Absolutely agree that this is a huge downside and I would like to see this changed.

  • Social Anything - Absent

 

Wrong. They have weekend social playlists and BTB is social now. Warzone is also social, therefore "Social Anything" being absent is just wrong.

  • Oddball - Absent
  • Assault - Absent
  • King of The Hill - Absent
  • Juggernaut - Absent
  • Invasion/Flood - Absent
  • Infection - Absent
  • Griffball - Absent
  • Race - Absent
  • Firefight/PvE - Absent

Can't argue with these. All absent and the game is worse off because of it. Hopefully will be added.

 

User Interface/Functionality Features

  • Pregame Lobby - Absent

 

Once again this is just petty. There is clearly a pregame lobby, functionality of it is irrelevant if you're questioning it's mere existence.

  • Veto or Vote Function - Absent

I would like a veto function because fuck overgrowth.

  • Postgame Carnage Report - Absent (no medals etc.)

Just... no. There is one, it shows accuracy, damage, kills etc. Once again you had to actually add a negative. They can probably patch in post-game medals. Halo 1 and 2 didn't have that either, yet they are fantastic.

  • Postgame Lobbies - Absent

This is debatable.

  • File Share - Absent

Wrong.

  • File Browser - Absent

This is only half true.

 

  • Population Counters - Absent

Not at all needed, but if they were a simple % based system would work, e.g. 14% of players online in Team Arena right now.

 

In-Game Mechanics, Features & Aesthetics

  • ADS - Present
  • Sprint - Present (again)
  • Clamber - Present
  • Sniper Scope Glare - Present
  • Refrigerator Sniper Scope - Present (again)
  • Microtransactions - Present
  • Radar - Present (short-bussed in...but present

These are gameplay items that come down to opinion, putting them here as facts to go against the game makes it sound like you haven't played the game. The game plays well, just has some issues.

 

 

 

Replies in red. If you're going to post shit like this do it properly, there are people that don't like Halo 5 but at least post the reasons, half your post is just confirmation bias. 

 

 

This is where one should expect to see a sticky thread stating the following facts.

 

Yeah well they'll be sure to do that when you actually post some.

 

 

 How many more disappointments till the prestigious Team Beyond says..."You know what, 343?  Go fuck yourselves!".  

 

Were you even here for Master Chief Collection? Have you been in that thread? A lot of players have given up, moved on or fight against the changes. 

 

 

 

On top of all that, before you call me a 343 shill or whatever sycophant position of your choosing, you've played almost thrice as much Halo 5 as me. So chronologically, you've supported 343 more than I have.

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@@Shekkles - gee, what a response that was...

 

Doubles - Yeah, "Holiday Doubles" was shit... and your point is?  So, I guess since they've tried to make a staple playlist once, we can say it's all good until they manage to figure out how to make 2v2 slayer. Word. Word.

 

BTB- You're aware BTB's Halo's all-time most popular playlist ever, correct? I didn't add negatives to fit my point.  343 added a shell of Halo's most popular MP playlist, and added it late with "BTB" slapped across it...my guess is simply to appease people and shut them up.  Looks like it's working better than I'd have ever imagined. No dev maps in Big Team Battle??? Hell yeah!  Badass!

 

Snipers - Yep...not there permanently.  Do you not remember why Halo online MP was so amazing H2/H3? These first 3 playlists were permanent fixtures.  They didn't ride back seat to Bungie's new modes, and especially ones which were clearly not being received very well (cough - Breakout).

 

Social =/= Weekend playlists.  Why?  Because 343 has also been using Weekend Playlists for competitive game modes like Snipers. You're right though...since social aspects have been flirted with, this is my bad. Let's pretend shit's grand.

 

You know what I think is "petty"? - You being offended by my OP, then trying to argue things I say within it like Josh Holmes does Sprint/anything else they're going to put in the game no matter what you say.  Pettiness = picking out/on little things while disregarding the bigger picture.  Is this not precisely what you've done here? It sure seems that way to me.

 

I consider Halo 5 late-shipped BTB, which likely won't ever sport a single dev-made map to be garbage, and therefore have no problem saying BTB is absent.  As far as I'm concerned Halo-quality BTB is not present in Halo 5.  Now, does that make me petty?

 

And FYI - I wasn't suggesting my OP should be stickied anywhere.  If you think that's what I meant or this was about, you really missed the point.

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I still believe that the only way Halo can ever regain any popularity at all is if it goes back to the original formula. That means no game breaking gimmicks like armor/Spartan abilities. As long as 343 continues to pump out their versions of "Halo", sales and population for each new game will be less than it's predecessor until the franchise is no longer profitable and Microsoft just ends it.

 

After Halo 5's terrible sales and population numbers, it'll be interesting to see what happens when Halo 6 comes out. Halo 5 is the Halo game that really hit me: no matter what, armor abilities/Spartan abilities or whatever you want to call the next set of game breaking gimmicks, cannot and will not ever work for Halo. If Halo 6 doesn't go back to Halo's roots with the original formula(knowing 343, it won't), then it'll be the first new Halo game I won't buy.

I definitely agree.  You think it should go back to CE-style gameplay, or a mixture of HCE, H2, and H3?  

 

Obviously some new things need to be tried/added in.  I feel there's absolutely nothing wrong with trying to innovate.  Problem is, we haven't seen any genuine attempts to innovate in a long time.  That can be said about many franchises though too, I suppose.  Halo's just unique bc it's established customer-base has shown steady resistance to many things which 343 steadily keeps putting in their games anyway. 

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@Noscopehagen

 

To start with, your post didn't offend me, it's not really something that is offending...

 

Doubles - Yeah, "Holiday Doubles" was shit... and your point is?  

 

My point is that it was in there, but it didn't work. Take what you want from this. I thought the playlist was rubbish and I, like you, want a 2v2 playlist in there. We'll have to wait to see how 2v2 pans out. You dismissed it as if it was never there at any time.

 

BTB- You're aware BTB's Halo's all-time most popular playlist ever, correct? I didn't add negatives to fit my point.  343 added a shell of Halo's most popular MP playlist, and added it late with "BTB" slapped across it...my guess is simply to appease people and shut them up.  Looks like it's working better than I'd have ever imagined. No dev maps in Big Team Battle??? Hell yeah!  Badass!

 

Of course I can't deny that the maps are all Forged maps, but you stated quite simply 

 

BTB w/1+ dev-made map - Absent

 

This statement is correct, but BTB is in the game. 8 vs 8 objective/slayer mix, unranked, vehicles on map and no loadouts. It's in the game. It feels like you added the "With 1 dev map" part to make it so you could make your "absent" statement look better. 

 

Please know that I agree that we should have dev-made maps, I would love to see some higher fidelity maps.

 

Snipers - Yep...not there permanently.  Do you not remember why Halo online MP was so amazing H2/H3? These first 3 playlists were permanent fixtures.  They didn't ride back seat to Bungie's new modes, and especially ones which were clearly not being received very well (cough - Breakout).

 

I can't really argue with this, all valid.

 

Social =/= Weekend playlists.  Why?  Because 343 has also been using Weekend Playlists for competitive game modes like Snipers. You're right though...since social aspects have been flirted with, this is my bad. Let's pretend shit's grand.

 

Apparently it's "not as easy as flicking a switch", and whilst BTB and Warzone are "social" playlists, I completely agree that there needs to be some unranked 4v4 playlists.

 

You know what I think is "petty"? - You being offended by my OP, then trying to argue things I say within it like Josh Holmes does Sprint/anything else they're going to put in the game no matter what you say.  Pettiness = picking out/on little things while disregarding the bigger picture.  Is this not precisely what you've done here? It sure seems that way to me.

 

Pettiness was probably an unfair term, I just didn't like reading that you dismissed social playlists and BTB as not being there when they clearly are. I came across as aggressive and I admit my post was a bit ironic in this regard.

 

I consider Halo 5 late-shipped BTB, which likely won't ever sport a single dev-made map to be garbage, and therefore have no problem saying BTB is absent.  As far as I'm concerned Halo-quality BTB is not present in Halo 5.  Now, does that make me petty?

 

Well that's just opinion, BTB is actually my favourite playlist in Halo 5 so far, but each to our own.

 

And FYI - I wasn't suggesting my OP should be stickied anywhere.  If you think that's what I meant or this was about, you really missed the point.

 

I just feel your post too bias towards an attack against 343. A neutral standing would have been a better stance as it makes it more interesting and valid.

 

But hey, I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

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@Noscopehagen

 

To start with, your post didn't offend me, it's not really something that is offending...

 

Doubles - Yeah, "Holiday Doubles" was shit... and your point is?  

 

My point is that it was in there, but it didn't work. Take what you want from this. I thought the playlist was rubbish and I, like you, want a 2v2 playlist in there. We'll have to wait to see how 2v2 pans out. You dismissed it as if it was never there at any time.

 

BTB- You're aware BTB's Halo's all-time most popular playlist ever, correct? I didn't add negatives to fit my point.  343 added a shell of Halo's most popular MP playlist, and added it late with "BTB" slapped across it...my guess is simply to appease people and shut them up.  Looks like it's working better than I'd have ever imagined. No dev maps in Big Team Battle??? Hell yeah!  Badass!

 

Of course I can't deny that the maps are all Forged maps, but you stated quite simply 

 

 

This statement is correct, but BTB is in the game. 8 vs 8 objective/slayer mix, unranked, vehicles on map and no loadouts. It's in the game. It feels like you added the "With 1 dev map" part to make it so you could make your "absent" statement look better. 

 

Please know that I agree that we should have dev-made maps, I would love to see some higher fidelity maps.

 

Snipers - Yep...not there permanently.  Do you not remember why Halo online MP was so amazing H2/H3? These first 3 playlists were permanent fixtures.  They didn't ride back seat to Bungie's new modes, and especially ones which were clearly not being received very well (cough - Breakout).

 

I can't really argue with this, all valid.

 

Social =/= Weekend playlists.  Why?  Because 343 has also been using Weekend Playlists for competitive game modes like Snipers. You're right though...since social aspects have been flirted with, this is my bad. Let's pretend shit's grand.

 

Apparently it's "not as easy as flicking a switch", and whilst BTB and Warzone are "social" playlists, I completely agree that there needs to be some unranked 4v4 playlists.

 

You know what I think is "petty"? - You being offended by my OP, then trying to argue things I say within it like Josh Holmes does Sprint/anything else they're going to put in the game no matter what you say.  Pettiness = picking out/on little things while disregarding the bigger picture.  Is this not precisely what you've done here? It sure seems that way to me.

 

Pettiness was probably an unfair term, I just didn't like reading that you dismissed social playlists and BTB as not being there when they clearly are. I came across as aggressive and I admit my post was a bit ironic in this regard.

 

I consider Halo 5 late-shipped BTB, which likely won't ever sport a single dev-made map to be garbage, and therefore have no problem saying BTB is absent.  As far as I'm concerned Halo-quality BTB is not present in Halo 5.  Now, does that make me petty?

 

Well that's just opinion, BTB is actually my favourite playlist in Halo 5 so far, but each to our own.

 

And FYI - I wasn't suggesting my OP should be stickied anywhere.  If you think that's what I meant or this was about, you really missed the point.

 

I just feel your post too bias towards an attack against 343. A neutral standing would have been a better stance as it makes it more interesting and valid.

 

But hey, I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

 

Wow... So this is what it's like to speak to Halo fans with brains.  Please forgive me.  In many ways, I'm fresh off the Waypoint Express.

 

I can't say i'm apologetic if I come across as not neutral toward 343.  I truly do not understand how anyone feels 343 deserves consideration given from neutral grounds.  To respond to one thing that stood out to me in your post here, while also summarizing my opinion of 343 . . . If adding/removing/tweaking/re-adding Team Doubles is too much more difficult than flipping a switch, then they are not qualified for their position.

 

No, you weren't wrong.  It was not a pro-343 post.  I take issue with a lot of things they've done...especially The Master Chief Collection, as you mentioned earlier.  

 

I'm disappointed I failed to offend you with my OP ; )  I offend myself every time I load up Halo 5.  

 

This thread was meant to offer members here a very big Halo fan's, though a Team Beyond outsider, perspective regarding this communities reaction to what I can only think to describe as a long line of varying levels of disappointment.  I think this community is too forgiving to 343, simply because its members clearly remember where it all began.  I want to start participating in discussion here more often, so I figured this was my last chance to offer something of a pure outsider's perspective. I think it's very important this community seriously considers how supporting they should be of 343, because 343 is looking to eSports as their get out of jail free card; I just think they're going to need Beyond's help to survive pretty soon.  

 

Plus, it made it easier to dive in discussing something I know I'm particularly passionate about, and could also confidently assume the rest of you feel much the same.  

 

I didn't think you were being aggressive, btw.  I just thought you were saying it how you saw it. I was equally as aggressive honestly.  So, I appreciate the clarity, and as far as I can tell, we agree on everything except that you think 343 deserves something . . . with that I truly could disagree any more.

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I didn't think you were being aggressive, btw.  I just thought you were saying it how you saw it. I was equally as aggressive honestly.  So, I appreciate the clarity, and as far as I can tell, we agree on everything except that you think 343 deserves something . . . with that I truly could disagree any more.

 

I think there is a lot of behind-the-scenes bureaucracy that we know nothing about, and I don't like to presume I know anything about game development. All I have is what previous games had (which were made on a different platform, with different hardware, networking and infrastructure, also made at lower fidelity) so I don't presume to know anything about that.

 

What I do know is that MCC was a piece of shit (and still is), Halo 4 was terrible and Halo 5 is flawed, but I do actually like the game.

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I think there is a lot of behind-the-scenes bureaucracy that we know nothing about, and I don't like to presume I know anything about game development. All I have is what previous games had (which were made on a different platform, with different hardware, networking and infrastructure, also made at lower fidelity) so I don't presume to know anything about that.

 

What I do know is that MCC was a piece of shit (and still is), Halo 4 was terrible and Halo 5 is flawed, but I do actually like the game.

 

Absolutely.  That's going to be the case with almost literally every product/service ever made or offered.  I don't presume I know any specifics or intricacies having to do video game development either, but such presumptions are not necessary to recognize 343 all too often fails to perform some of the most simple tasks at even just an acceptable level.  They have never offered customers any real level of transparency (even after apologizing for Halo 4, promising they'd do better, then releasing The MCC).  343 has established one hell of a track record for saying one thing, only to do another.  

 

I'm sure you're absolutely right in saying there are behind-the-scenes crap that causes some, perhaps a lot, of the nonsense.  Ultimately though, I truly don't care who's to blame.  The result is what I receive from them. That is what I'm concerned with.  Do I want to know why I receive flaming bags of poo?  Yes...Yes I truly doo.  Though, just as game development is not my personal profession, neither is it my job to mitigate whatever conflicting parties exist up there in Seattle/Kirkland, WA.  

 

My disgust with 343 starts with their dishonesty and disingenuousness, and it ends when they figure it out.  I've never considered granting any other company passes like I have with 343, and the only reasons I ever did was because I either fell for some fantastic bits of marketing, or stupid numbers of people demand this unproven group deserves our patience and trust.  

 

Maybe I'm an "elitist" asshole.  I dunno.  What I do know is 343 industries hasn't delivered a complete, working, high-quality product...ever.  So, I don't care if it's their fault or Obama's.  Regardless, the games suffer/suck/or flat out don't work all the same.  343 is the name on the cover of the products, so they receive my blame. 343 is just a Microsoft owned bunch, so MS gets the same blame.  It's MS's job to figure out exactly who/what the problem is.  One would think it'd be figured out and handled by now though. 

 

About The MCC - All I wanted was a full Halo 2 Anniversary (cries...sobs...sobs...cries).  I was so psyched for a full H2A MP on the original engine.  Maybe H3A?  Dammit, there I go getting my hopes up again!

 

No splitscreen or LAN either.

 

 

Added to list in OP.  Can't believe I left those off...good catch.

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Words

just like to chime in that VIP and territories really gave a lot to the h3 custom games scene, also headhunters was tops

 

don't forget aesthetically pleasing medals and audio - absent

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I still believe that the only way Halo can ever regain any popularity at all is if it goes back to the original formula. That means no game breaking gimmicks like armor/Spartan abilities. As long as 343 continues to pump out their versions of "Halo", sales and population for each new game will be less than it's predecessor until the franchise is no longer profitable and Microsoft just ends it.

 

After Halo 5's terrible sales and population numbers, it'll be interesting to see what happens when Halo 6 comes out. Halo 5 is the Halo game that really hit me: no matter what, armor abilities/Spartan abilities or whatever you want to call the next set of game breaking gimmicks, cannot and will not ever work for Halo. If Halo 6 doesn't go back to Halo's roots with the original formula(knowing 343, it won't), then it'll be the first new Halo game I won't buy.

honestly i'm just praying certain affinity make a fun halo wars game, that'll be my destination until there's a halo game that to me feels like a halo game.

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just like to chime in that VIP and territories really gave a lot to the h3 custom games scene, also headhunters was tops

 

don't forget aesthetically pleasing medals and audio - absent

We could list tons of game modes.  I didn't mean to discredit any either (I enjoyed Headhunter myself).  I purposely tried to keep it somewhat abridged to avoid ugly mess of text.  They're added now though. 

 

Ya know, back when we were all playing H2/H3/HR, I would've never guessed good looking medal flashers would be something I'd miss.  I also never would've guessed we couldn't see medals postgame either.  So, I definitely agree with you there.

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Replies in red. If you're going to post shit like this do it properly, there are people that don't like Halo 5 but at least post the reasons, half your post is just confirmation bias. 

 

 
 

 

Yeah well they'll be sure to do that when you actually post some.

 

 
 

 

Were you even here for Master Chief Collection? Have you been in that thread? A lot of players have given up, moved on or fight against the changes. 

 

 

 

On top of all that, before you call me a 343 shill or whatever sycophant position of your choosing, you've played almost thrice as much Halo 5 as me. So chronologically, you've supported 343 more than I have.

i disagree shekkles i think postgame isn't debatable, being able to party up in the social we're yet to see is a great positive, other than that it lets people who want to talk smack talk smack, don't want to hear it then just back out of the post-game lobby easy.

 

also doubles being absent vs doubles being absent because it plays like shit in h5 is still the same result, even with as many changes as need be with h5 default settings i can't seeing it be a good experience

 

also i would love to know what elements you like about h5 BTB, they'll either mean nothing to my opinion of BTB or could be an element that would see it less negatively in contrast to ce-reach BTB, either way maybe i'm just not seeing something about it that is enjoyable.  

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honestly i'm just praying certain affinity make a fun halo wars game, that'll be my destination until there's a halo game that to me feels like a halo game.

I just can't get into games like Halo Wars; never been my thing.  Still, for the sake of you and all others whom do enjoy those games, I hope so too.

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We could list tons of game modes.  I didn't mean to discredit any either (I enjoyed Headhunter myself).  I purposely tried to keep it somewhat abridged to avoid ugly mess of text.  They're added now though. 

 

Ya know, back when we were all playing H2/H3/HR, I would've never guessed good looking medal flashers would be something I'd miss.  I also never would've guessed we couldn't see medals postgame either.  So, I definitely agree with you there.

yeah it just really goes against what makes great logos and graphic design, we had colourful and vibrant designs that were distinct from each other, recognizable instantly and most felt rewarding to them all looking the same with no personality or reward. i think the thing that makes me so spiteful with the direction is i can't fathom the logic other than being different for the sake of being different. 

 

yes there are opinions but man i don't see how someone can side with the medals or audio of 343 halo, or the vehicle gameplay, player animations or map design either, just baffles me.

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I just can't get into games like Halo Wars; never been my thing.  Still, for the sake of you and all others whom do enjoy those games, I hope so too.

yeah it was my love for halo and age of empires, i think there was so much room for improvement, though it was the personality of both companies visible in game that made me love it more than anything, and the people i played with too. 

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yeah it just really goes against what makes great logos and graphic design, we had colourful and vibrant designs that were distinct from each other, recognizable instantly and most felt rewarding to them all looking the same with no personality or reward. i think the thing that makes me so spiteful with the direction is i can't fathom the logic other than being different for the sake of being different. 

 

yes there are opinions but man i don't see how someone can side with the medals or audio of 343 halo, or the vehicle gameplay, player animations or map design either, just baffles me.

 

"no personality or reward"... Kinda like removing the SPNKR and replacing it with a potato gun?  Or replacing Halo's classic Sniper Rifle with a square, 2-ton kitchen appliance atop a cyborg cane? Yeah, I hear you.  It's certainly not just the medals.  You'd think a group that pumps out 200 sets of armor might have a few handfuls of awesome sets to offer.  Unfortunately, anyone who figured such a thing was so, so wrong.

 

In general, I find Halo 3 clearly being a better looking game than Halo 5, in terms of graphics/visuals and art-design.  Much of that is just my preference, but some are not (texture maps for example).

 

Ricochet is one of the only 343 things I can side with...though there's no opposing side to that either.  I think Ricochet was a good idea, and interesting game mode.  Like most all game modes, I find it to be much more fun without sprint (playing it in H2A) than with.  Not surprisingly, even that is missing from Halo 5.

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I definitely agree.  You think it should go back to CE-style gameplay, or a mixture of HCE, H2, and H3?  

 

Obviously some new things need to be tried/added in.  I feel there's absolutely nothing wrong with trying to innovate.  Problem is, we haven't seen any genuine attempts to innovate in a long time.  That can be said about many franchises though too, I suppose.  Halo's just unique bc it's established customer-base has shown steady resistance to many things which 343 steadily keeps putting in their games anyway. 

Probably a mixture of all 3. I have not played much CE, so my main experience is with H2, H3, and Reach. However I like the idea of having an utility weapon that empowers the player, like the CE pistol. I definitely feel there should be a skill gap for the utility weapon. Something I enjoyed about the H3 BR was that you had to lead your shots so there was somewhat of a skill gap with it. I think a 4SK single-shot projectile based utility weapon would be ideal. Something powerful enough to kill your enemy quickly, yet having a fighting chance if someone gets the first shot on you. Also, trades should be a very rare occurrence, if at all. I don't even remember having a single trade back in the OG H2 days, to be honest.

 

As far as innovation goes, it depends what you mean by it. Halo should be treated like a sports game where the rules are already established(HCE-H3), so refinement is really the only thing that needs to be done. Better graphics/art style, physics, shot registration, UI, ranking system, vehicle mechanics, weapon mechanics, beat down system, in-depth service records(like Reach) and innovative maps.

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I would love to know what elements you like about h5 BTB, they'll either mean nothing to my opinion of BTB or could be an element that would see it less negatively in contrast to ce-reach BTB, either way maybe i'm just not seeing something about it that is enjoyable.  

 

Ok so these are the reasons why I like BTB in Halo 5:

 

1) Spartan abilities. 

 

They feels reasonably natural due to the map size in BTB. The maps aren't "expanded" to cater for the sprint/clamber etc. They are quite a normal size. Thrust doesn't feel OP because the maps are open enough that you will always kill someone you aim at.

 

2) Maps.

 

Yeah, they're forge maps, but most of them feel really nice and they have an unusual aesthetic that makes me feel like I'm playing as a toy soldier. Some people don't like this, but I like it for nostalgic reasons dating back to when I was significantly younger. They have the same appeal as "Blood Gulch" does aesthetically (to me). I would love to see some dev maps, but they are functional and play well.

 

3) Weapons.

 

Everyone spawns with the same weapons, which is delicious. In Warzone I hate the fact that people spawn with what they want. The fact that weapons-on-map is in the game (as well as powerups) gives it a much better "Halo" feel to me, I really like it. It means the sniper is a real power weapon, like the rockets and others. I like to feel like I can directly dictate the match if I'm good enough, and I can do this in BTB through map/weapon control. These are harder to do in Warzone and I find it dull anyway.

 

4) Vehicles.

 

Set vehicles on map with spawns. Works just like good old Halo, and is balanced on a per-map basis. Anti-vehicle weapons are also on the map to balance them.

 

5) Gametypes.

 

No Assault yet, but CTF, Strongholds and Slayer are a great selection to have in one playlist. Strongholds on Guillotine is especially enjoyable. You get something different every game, unlike Warzone.

 

 

It's all opinion, but these are the reasons I enjoy it so much. BTB feels like the most "Halo" experience in the whole game.

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